Nyle

[shadowbinding shoe]

There was also that time near the end when he helped Artagel defeat the Monomach in Eremis lair by waving his chains. He still had some fight left in him after all the tortures.

Thank you, shadowbinding shoe. I chose Iolanthe because I love the opera, and because I was in it when I was minus 6 months old. My mother was a pregnant fairy. Very Happy

That's so cute

[Cord Hurn]

There was also that time near the end when he helped Artagel defeat the Monomach in Eremis lair by waving his chains. He still had some fight left in him after all the tortures.

Thank you, shadowbinding shoe. I chose Iolanthe because I love the opera, and because I was in it when I was minus 6 months old. My mother was a pregnant fairy. Very Happy

That's so cute

I second that!

[Cord Hurn]

I don't have any thoughts on Nyle as it's been way too many years since reading, The Mirror of Her Dreams.

Oddly enough, a while ago I had worked with a meditational (2yr course) book that encouraged imaginative exploration (some of which was sourced from Eric Berne's bestseller, The Games People Play). The idea being that one imagines walking into and through the back of a wardrobe, and down a spiral staircase to "Inner Rooms". After visiting these inner rooms on a regular basis a change might occur in the psyche, as explorative activity percolates up into daily consciousness.
I stopped smoking as a result. A beneficial side affect to a cure for a long term of mental disorder.
I digress.

The meditational course work I'd used happened to be based on the Egyptian pantheon. Though any would do. It's interesting to note that the name Nyle, parallels this strangely, and now has me absolutely fascinated. I really must make the time to read Mordan't Need again, and find out what happened in part II: A Man Rides Through - which I hadn't finished.

Thanks

edit: A local bookshop had, A Man Rides Through. But no, Mirror of her Dreams.
Which meant I could afford to buy two thin Pelican's as well. A good day's shop.

I hope you're feeling encouraged to finish A Man Rides Through, Rune (AKA Vizidor, Rod, Dura Fairflank). I believe you'll be glad you did!!! In my opinion, the second Mordant's Need book is fantastic and makes the whole exercise of reading this story worthwhile!!! It's DEFINITELY worth finishing, I assure you! Mordant's Need is the Stephen R. Donaldson work I love the most, to be honest with you, though I pretty much enjoy almost everything he's written.

[Cord Hurn]

I don't think Nyle would forget all his grievances just like that but maybe Joyce is charming and charismatic enough to pull it of.

Well, I don't know about Nyle's capacity to forgive, shadowbing shoe, but I have no doubt that King Joyse has all the charisma he needs to win over all but his most sworn enemies. Not just by his smiles, but by how he reveals his compassionate convictions. Only the truly selfish evil characters are not swayed, and they go the other direction of hating Joyse with a passion.

Nyle is probably still susceptible to influence and inspiration by King Joyse, even after all that's happened.

[Cord Hurn]

Well, I suppose we could argue that he's learned a lesson in being used, and so would be protected from it in the future?

--A

Yes, I think so. Nyle could be a very wise and wary leader, useful traits in dealing with the wily and scheming Alend Lieges, and in keeping a balance maintained between them all.

[Cord Hurn]

The success of governing the Alend Lieges, which are described as unruly, is said a few times by either Kragen or Margonal to be a matter of keeping them balanced so that they feel there is no favoritism, I think!

I need to look up more quotes on this in the near future to see if my memory is right about that. I may be mistaken on that point.

[Avatar]

Sounds logical, even if it isn't right.

--A

[Cord Hurn]

Good to be logical, then! When I have a little more free time to research, I'll see if I can look up some quotes relevant to this matter. One thing I don't doubt: after all he has been through, Nyle is likely to be a very cautious character. Perhaps that's what is called for to effectively rule Alend!

[Cord Hurn]

When Terisa is thrown into the dungeon, how many people visit her, and who are they???

[shadowbinding shoe]

I suspect there used to be inheritence wars. Margonal worked to change it into popularity contests. So his heir needs to be anti-martial.

When Terisa is thrown into the dungeon, how many people visit her, and who are they???

Wrong thread

[Cord Hurn]

I suspect there used to be inheritence wars. Margonal worked to change it into popularity contests. So his heir needs to be anti-martial.

When Terisa is thrown into the dungeon, how many people visit her, and who are they???

Wrong thread

I'm very sorry about that, Shadowbinding Shoe! I was tired when I made that post.

[Cord Hurn]

I've been looking for quotes from Mordant's Need which describe the situation of maintaining power in the kingdom of Alend. One passage I deemed relevant takes place after Elena expresses concern about Kragen threatening Master Quillon with pain.

It was certainly true that in the old days of the constant struggle between Alend and Cadwal, no supporter or adherent of the Alend Monarch would have hesitated to twist a few screams out of any Mordant or Cadwal. And the barons of the Lieges still tended to be a bloodthirsty lot. But since his defeat at King Joyse's hands, Margonal hadn't failed to notice that his opponent was able to rule Mordant with considerable ease by winning loyalty rather than extorting it. Never a stupid man, the Alend Monarch had experimented with techniques of kingship other than those which hinged upon fear, violence, and pain, and had been pleased with the results. Even the barons were becoming easier to command.

That was one of the things Margonal had done which Prince Kragen believed in. He wanted to make more such experiments himself.

Nyle may be able to capitalize on Margonal's successes, as long as he's cautious not to appear either too biased or too weak, I suppose.

[Cord Hurn]

Other quotes I have found in Mordant's Need where the business of ruling Alend is discussed is when Margonal grants an audience to the Tor, Terisa, and Geraden.

"Master Geraden." Slowly, Margonal's voice lost its vehemence. "I am the Alend Monarch, responsible for all my lands and all my people--as well as for a rather unruly union with the Alend Lieges. In my place, would you be prepared to risk your entire kingdom on the naked hope that an apparent madman will recognize the truth--and respect it?"
________________________________________

Thinly, he murmured, "You are blessed with several sons, my lord Tor. I have but one. And by no act of mine can I assure his accession to my Seat. I must be careful of my risks."

As far as I can tell, it's in Margonal's experience that a rather unruly union with the Alend Lieges involves caution. If Margonal thinks Nyle is the best candidate for that, there's a good chance he's right.

This is all speculation on my part, of course, but there doesn't seem to be anything in the text that contradicts the idea that Nyle would be a good Contender for Alend.

This is all I could find in the Mordant's Need story relating to how Alend is managed, save for some comments from Kragen to Terisa in TMOHD chapter 12 about how the Contender position is not hereditary.

[Avatar]

I suspect there used to be inheritence wars. Margonal worked to change it into popularity contests. So his heir needs to be anti-martial.

When Terisa is thrown into the dungeon, how many people visit her, and who are they???

Wrong thread

I'm very sorry about that, Shadowbinding Shoe! I was tired when I made that post.

I was too polite to point it out.

--A

[Cord Hurn]

I suspect there used to be inheritence wars. Margonal worked to change it into popularity contests. So his heir needs to be anti-martial.
Wrong thread

I'm very sorry about that, Shadowbinding Shoe! I was tired when I made that post.

I was too polite to point it out.

--A

Thank you for your restraint.

[shadowbinding shoe]

Hope you weren't offended, Cord Hurn. No need to apologize. We all make mistakes.

[Cord Hurn]

Hope you weren't offended, Cord Hurn. No need to apologize. We all make mistakes.

Oh, not offended in the least, Shadowbinding Shoe! You were right, after all! I appreciate your continued efforts (and Avatar's, as well) in keeping the Mordant's Need forum active!!

[Avatar]

--A

[Merlanthe]

As already noted his experiences have made him cautious and hopefully a little wiser but I think being an outsider is a big influence on his being an acceptable contender for the position of alend monarch.

I can definitely see the various alend factions being more willing to accept an outsider who has no previous ties and therefore no bias in his decision making as ruler than a man who has past ties to one of the factions and may favor that faction in future decisions. It also gives the current alend monarch a candidate he can mentor into the role. I'm sure by the time Nyle is handed the reins he will have been thoroughly drilled on everything margonal thinks is necessary to do a good job and probably be quite familiar with the various alend factions and they with him.

From a realistic point of view what is left in mordant for Nyle? He has seemingly spent his life floundering round not knowing what to do with himself and seemingly no one has given him any guidance or direction to follow. In many ways I see him as a milder version of Teresa as they seem to share the same problem, that being a lack of meaning or purpose in their life and an inability to see any for themselves.

He was ignored by king Joyce because, to in-accurately quote him, 'he seemed to pity himself before I could pity him so I was disinclined to' which is similar to how Teresa expressing her awareness of being neglected with her calf eyes makes her father more inclined to dismiss her from his presence. The only time Nyle tries to do something meaningful or proactive with his life is when he joins elega in her treason. It seems she is the only one who gives him a direction or purpose to follow and he latches onto it. Yes he is in love with her but he also seems to embrace being given something meaningful to do and like Teresa when she first starts trying to be more proactive he makes some bad decisions and trusts the wrong people. Oh yeah he also gets kidnapped by imagers who lock him up with the intent of sexually torturing him but it takes him a lot longer to get rescued.

Just because Joyce makes a public show of embracing him and forgiving him isn't going to magically change how Nyle lacks direction and meaning to his life or how people will perceive him after everything that's happened. There really isn't anything for him in mordant beside his family who love him but seem unable to give him the help he needs. By becoming a candidate for the alend throne he is able to make a fresh start and find a meaning and purpose for his life. At the very least margonal seems to find value in nyles where Joyce could not as he seems very pleased with nyles at the end.

[Avatar]

I always had a soft spot for Margonal myself. Seems like somebody who has learned important lessons the hard way.

--A