The Mueller Investigation

[Skyweir]

The Left are not running the investigation, they know as much as we do about it..

Dont buy into the hype ..

"The left" whoever they are .. have their opinions, as do "the right" whoever they are ..

The investigation is a government investigation .. and is supposed to be Apolitical.

And facts speak louder than all the hype and hearsay... its just opinion. Nothing more.

You cant convict someone on opinion.

[Cail]

You cant convict someone on opinion.

Which you have already done.

List the facts that support your position that Trump has done anything wrong.

[Skyweir]

I have not convicted Trump of anything .. and thankfully, thats not my job or remit.

Though I can criticise him on a multitude of grounds... but specifically the Russian meddling issue .. I have made my claims clear and they are here .. you have even commented on them.


I accept the realities that the Report may not see the light of day while Trump is in office .. but he wont be there forever .. and we will read Mullers findings.


To my mind there have already been a great many overlaps with Trump and his 2016 election campaign, Trumps personal and business history etc .. for their not to be something ilicit having occurred.

But like you, I wait with interest to see what happens next.

[Cail]

And again, you have nothing of substance to support your position. Just the bullshit you've swallowed from our complicit media.

[Skyweir]

mmm ok ..

Sadly I am working away from home this week, and my time to pop in is limited. But I have given you articles, quoted from a variety of sources, and provided links for you to read further if that is your wish .. but I have no time to repeat it all over again.

Perhaps when I get home, and have a rest and recovery day for me, I will address your criticism ... and provide you greater substance. Though honestly you can just go back a few pages on this thread to read my views which in relation to some, you yourself have commented on. Mostly just to criticise me .. but there may be some substantial, criticisms that I missed

I genuinely though dont know why you dislike me, my comments, my views, sooo much. I am definitely liberal minded, noting that does not translate well from the US understanding of liberalism. I also have conservative views, mostly in relation to policing and emergency services resourcing and support. At least here in Australia, conservative governments have tended to prioritise emergency services in funding and gov policy.

I am definitely forthright, and yes I do cuss from time to time. But I dont hate you at all. I dont even hate your views, Im not a great fan of your incessant ad hominen jabs .. but am becoming accustomed to them.

I think if you and I could learn to deal civilly with each other, there is still hope for the rest of the world, .. hahaha _. particularly given that we are poles apart, ideologically and geographically.

Id far prefer a working truce .. if such a thing were palatable.

And there are a number of things that I do indeed respect about you. So I am not literally the enemy, not to you or your country.


I dont have a high horse, to speak of. I am still learning and will likely continue doing so till my last breath. And I have learned a few things from you .. and I gather others have too.

[Cail]

I think you misunderstand what I've said.

I have no interest in a truce, as I'm not at war with you. I have no interest in your respect, as you're not someone who is important in my life. I don't dislike you, you just don't matter.

What you are is annoying. You don't understand US politics, but you feel like you have to comment on everything, and your comments range from uninformed, to ignorant, to offensive, to just plain wrong.

The Mueller investigation has turned up nothing regarding Trump. Nothing. It has also clearly stated that the Russian interference that did occur didn't change a single vote. Continuing to argue otherwise does nothing to give you credibility, and makes you nothing more substantive than a partisan gadfly.

[Zarathustra]

What I believe is being missed here is that whether Trump's team was involved or not, there still were perpetrators who carried out the hacking and subsequent disclosures.

There is no evidence of hacking. It has already been established that the data transfer rates were too high for remote hacking. This had to be someone on the inside with access to the servers who plugged in a flash drive.

But at this point, why do we care about leaked emails from the DNC? The Trump administration has been plagued by leaks from government employees. Why isn't *that* a bigger deal than Podesta's emails?

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Skyweir was gone for about a month--she wasn't commenting on anything during that time.

There is no proof that anyone connected to the Trump Campaign or Administration, in any way, did anything illegal before the election. If such proof existed, a prosecutor would already have tried to make the case for conviction.

What "Russian meddling"? Did even a single vote get changed by Russian hackers? No? Then they didn't meddle. Did Russians try to influence people's opinions via social media platforms such as Facebook? Yes...and yet no one from Facebook is facing any charges for being complicit in this form of meddling--Facebook gladly cashed the checks for hosting all that content the troll farms were generating.

The Democrats definitely tried to convict Kavanaugh based on an opinion.

If the Republicans are set to lose the House based on the results of next week's election they should shut down the Mueller Investigation before their winter break.

[Skyweir]

I think you misunderstand what I've said.

I have no interest in a truce, as I'm not at war with you. I have no interest in your respect, as you're not someone who is important in my life. I don't dislike you, you just don't matter.

What you are is annoying. You don't understand US politics, but you feel like you have to comment on everything, and your comments range from uninformed, to ignorant, to offensive, to just plain wrong.

The Mueller investigation has turned up nothing regarding Trump. Nothing. It has also clearly stated that the Russian interference that did occur didn't change a single vote. Continuing to argue otherwise does nothing to give you credibility, and makes you nothing more substantive than a partisan gadfly.

I did not misunderstand your comments, your hypocrisy and double standards are impossible to miss.

You are a the quintessential pot incessantly calling the kettle black .. you think youre in control, youre not.

As to the Mueller Investigation .. no information thats been made public to date. Why do you think Trump has worked so hard to discredit and dismantle the investigation. Just because? Resourcing? Do you know how many billions of dollars the US spends on its military.. I think its not a resourcing issue. 1. It upsets Trumps Russian business interests, the man is a businessman, no?

[Cail]

...you think youre in control, youre not.

Your level of insanity is noted. What the hell exactly is this sort of nuttiness supposed to mean?

Seek help Sky, there's something very, very wrong with you.

[Savor Dam]

Little as I relish stepping into the line of fire, I think this is veering uncomfortably far into personal attack and would respectfully ask that we focus discussion on the merits of the topic rather than opinions about the posters. Thank you.

[Skyweir]

"Veering"?




Id challenge your chosen "tense"

[Hashi Lebwohl]

People here know--or ought to know, at any rate--not to take things personally or to make them personal. That being said, I am a firm believer in allowing people to make their own choices. Things which are said cannot be unsaid so it is always wise to choose one's words carefully, like I do.

[Skyweir]

Personal attacks are intended to be taken personally.

So to play devils advocate, as some are inclined to do _ Is harassment, bullying, demeaning of others, groundless pointed attacks acceptable behaviour here at Kevin's Watch?

Are there not standards of acceptable interaction and unacceptable behaviours?

In most web based forums such standards and are moderated .. in particular in the event that self moderation has not ever proved effective.

Do we want to encourage membership and attendance? Or are we comfortable to discourage attendance and comment?

Theoretically speaking of course _ and Im not implying that the Watch has any problem with poster retention or participation.

Curious as to the type of environment KW seeks to foster Food for thought and consideration

We can all do better, be great if we all actually wanted to.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Personal attacks are intended to be taken personally.

I ignore them and don't take them personally. If I can do it, then so can other people.

I have been trying to encourage attendance here, to no avail. So much damage was done before I showed up that most days I am of the opinion that I am wasting my time.

My real problem is that I expect other people to act--and react--the same way *I* do. Then again, I hold myself to high standards and, apparently, not everyone can distance themselves from things the way I can.

*************

Politico is of the opinion that Mueller will subpoena the President after midterm elections. The guy who wrote the article has been a Federal prosecutor so his insights should be considered seriously.

[Skyweir]

Yes I read that ... following with interest.

As to your comments about decorum .. I think the problem with participation in the Tank is obvious .. perhaps you choose not to see it I dunno.

Theres a saying .. that " you take your victim as you find them"

Now we are not talking victims here .. but perhaps you can see the point. Not all are Hashi .. lol _ "We are Negan" not _

You cant really expect that a personal attack, will not be taken personally .. .. there will be someone who will.

I used a word that a poster took personally and became oflallrgedly offended because of it.

Why wouldnt you want rules of engagement? A compact if you will between posters that they agree to not do certain things or agree to do certain things?

We CAN all do better, be more polite, be less offensive .. no? I dont see that as a bad thing at all.

You say you employ ignorance, as a tactic .. no? You "ignore" .. I wonder how well youd do if you were the subject of ad hominem attack, accused you of ignorance, stupidity?

I get that its not easy to get, if youre not accustomed to getting it

[TheFallen]

If it's of any help, I directly and blatantly called Hashi "a real dick" in a Tank post just a few days ago...

[Skyweir]

Tongue in cheek is not exactly the same, is it?

[Hashi Lebwohl]

He didn't mean it as tongue-in-cheek; he meant it for real.

In TF's defense, though, I was being a dick at that time, so his assessment was accurate.

*************

The expectation is that Mueller has been trying to avoid influencing the election--had he issued the subpoena last month that might have really fired up the Republican base and could have been considered "tampering with an election". We should probably give him credit for trying to avoid that.

The recent attempt to pay women to allege sexual misconduct against Mueller....that was a cheap ploy and it was so thinly disguised that everyone saw through it right away, even people who don't particularly like Mueller.

The power struggle after the election will be fascinating, though. The expectation, even among Republicans, is that they lose the House. That being said, they still control the House through the end of the year and that is enough time for Congress to effectively shut down the investigation altogether. Of course, a Democrat-controlled House could restart it once they convene, but doing so will be seen as nothing more than a cheap partisan attack.

[Skyweir]

Interesting times.

Why would the investigation stop if Republican lose seats? Id is a simple formality in such events?