District 9

[Orlion]

Having said that, I do agree that the "surprising direction" wasn't all that awe inspiring as it was made out to be... but that's not why I think the movie is great

I'm sorry, what surprising direction was that?

Besides, IMO, this movie had one all-encompassing advantage over Land of the Lost: No Will Farrell.

Hey, Will Farrell can be a great actor! Stranger than Fiction is one of my favorite movies!

I think the main point me and Malik23 want to make with respect to this is that in reviews of the movie, people kept talking about it having a "surprising direction" and so many twists that they dare not talk about it... which simply wasn't the case. They also said many other things that kinda showed that they weren't paying too much attention... at least not as much as I would like them to

Spoiler

Like when they say that these aliens are the last of their kind

As far as Will Farrell...well, I haven't seen Stranger than Fiction, and I might, but I have an issue with Farrell's face Very irrational... I know...

[Zarathustra]

You guys make some good points. I don't want to seem ilke i'm trashing a movie that everyone else likes. For the first half, enjoyed myself. During the first 15 minutes, I leaned over to my wife and said, "This is *very* interesting."

I did like that final image, making metal flowers. I wish there were more moments like that.

And while I complained about the lack of character development, I'm glad that Wickus's wife didn't dominate the story with a lot of crying and worrying. I'm glad there wasn't a scene where these two almost reunite.

Orlion, yes I remember that they were worker class and not very intelligent. They needed smart leaders to tell them what to do. But wasn't that exactly what they had? The Dad alien, Christopher, was telling them to collect this fluid and he knew what to do with it.

I don't mean to nit-pick, but for me this was the most fascinating aspect of the set-up, the fact that *this* is what a human-alien society could look like. I find it plausible that we would round them up and keep them separate, but for it to depend upon the aliens being universally dumb and lazy was very disappointing. I realize that this might be a metaphor for how humans treat each other, but if so, then it depends upon a very racist view of the humans who are victimized. Surely the movie wasn't trying to say that some groups of people are universally dumb and lazy.

What kind of accident did these aliens have that only killed the smart ones? Never explained.

The latter question is really the issue, isn't it? I think the idea is that despite humans' ability to communicate with the aliens, they have absolutely no desire to work for their benefit. What happens in the film that makes you think the humans were in any way willing to help?

Nothing in the movie made me think humans would be willing to help, but that's exactly the problem: the humans in the movie didn't behave like real humans. There was zero curiousity or empathy. Wickus was the only human who wasn't despicable.

You have a good point about the aliens arriving weakened. I didn't miss that. Perhaps the humans confiscated some of their weapons, but they still had some. And they had no problem fighting the humans. Instead of trading their weapons for cat food, it just seems like they would have done *something* with them that wasn't batshit stupid. This race has enough drive to achieve interstellar travel, it goes to other planets where there are intelligent species, and then trades all its weapons for cat food. I'm sorry, but that's Alf-level motivation. It took me completely out of the movie.

[Worm of Despite]

Also: why the hell was an alien named Christopher Johnson? I thought it was cute but damn.

[Orlion]

Also: why the hell was an alien named Christopher Johnson? I thought it was cute but damn.

That's the name given the alien by MNU or by whomever was in charge of such things. Kinda like how in the old days, immigrants to the US were given Americanized names. I'd have to see it again and look close, but I saw MNU spraypainted on Chris' skull... I wonder if his 'human' name is also sprayed on it?

And don't worry Malik23, wouldn't be much of a discussion if everyone here was talking about how great the movie was, now wouldn't it?

[ItisWritten]

I had the impression that the prawns in District 9 were dispossessed. That is, they were infused with the kind of hopelessness that leads to the lawless--pointless--behavior of selling weapons for food. This is merely implied in the early going, but it seemed clear to me.

Christopher kept his business secret because he didn't trust his fellows not to pillage his stuff for cat food. At one point, he told his yellow friend to hide the fuel tube (which was easily found) and be courteous to the MNU and he couldn't do that.

If the alien survivors were all drones, then Christopher was simply an extraordinary drone.

As for the amoral humans surrounding them, 20 years had passed. The pro-alien activists had come and gone. Early on, one of the interviews spoke of the alien tent city becoming and "instant slum", though they don't say a week, month or year. The prawns had proven themselves "inferior" too long, and all that was left to monitor them were the exploiters. I found this part entirely believable.

The only point that raised a "huh?" from me was the derelict mother ship. You mean humans get inside, get the aliens out and don't try to figure it out or get it working? The lack of scientific curiosity doesn't ring true.

[Earthfriend]

*SPOILERS ABOUND*

You guys make some good points.

As have you, Malik23. I hadn't actually thought about many of the points you raised - all of which are quite valid. And ItisWritten's point about the lack of investigation the humans appear to have done on the mothership is also a damn good one. Can't think of a government on Earth that wouldn't want to pull that puppy apart and harness the technology for itself.

I still really enjoyed the movie, and I think it explored relatively new ideas, which seems to be so lacking in popular cinema today. The fact that the movie left so many questions unanswered is a plus, I think. Hell, I'm still thinking about it now, as opposed to the last sci-fi movie I saw (Watchmen) which I pretty much stopped thinking about the moment I left the theater. (Not that I didn't enjoy it.)

Also, I was quite willing to dismiss the alien's unfathomable behaviour as just that: alien. Why didn't they use the weapons they made to seek better living conditions for themselves? Why the obsession with catfood, etc? Well, they are Alien - by very definition different to the point of incomprehensibilty. Every time the aliens did something I couldn't understand - such as selling a kick-ass power suit for 100 cat food containers - it added to the 'alien-ness' of the Prawns, for me, anyway.

Only Christopher's behaviour was comprehensible - only he behaved in a 'human' way, displaying compassion, honour, love. For that reason, I could argue that he was the least effective alien in the movie.

Wickus was the only human who wasn't despicable

I have to disagree here. I found Wickus self-serving, thoughtless, and to an extent, ruthless. He happily burns to death a clutch of alien eggs. He has no real interest in explaining to the aliens why they are being relocated. He's quite happy to lead his subordinate into a very dangerous situation without a protective vest, and he seems to have no interest in dealing with the criminals that prey upon the aliens.

And most damning, he clobbers Christopher on the back of the head and 'car-jacks' his spce-ship with Chris' son in the backseat. Yes, he does redeem himself in the end, (by going from a man that quailed from shooting one alien, to a one-man army quite happy to liquify any number of people), but that is only after his DNA has been radically altered. I find it a really interesting paradox that Wickus is at his most humane when he is almost half alien.

[Zarathustra]

Earthfriend, that's a great analysis of Wickus. You're absolutely right. He was kind of a jerk. But then he redeemed himself. And that's fine with me, because this shows growth and character development. I'm fine with fact that it took an alien transformation for him to become "human." That's a powerful point. It makes these qualities of empathy, respect, and responsibility transcend mere genetics. It makes his transformation almost spiritual (don't tell Worm of the World's End I said that ).

Also, I was quite willing to dismiss the alien's unfathomable behaviour as just that: alien. Why didn't they use the weapons they made to seek better living conditions for themselves? Why the obsession with catfood, etc? Well, they are Alien - by very definition different to the point of incomprehensibilty. Every time the aliens did something I couldn't understand - such as selling a kick-ass power suit for 100 cat food containers - it added to the 'alien-ness' of the Prawns, for me, anyway.

That's a good try, but I'm not as willing to dismiss it as "aliens acting alien." They brought weapons for some reason. If it wasn't for self-protection, then why bring them? Aliens might be incomprehensible, but I think we can conclude a few things about them simply from the fact that they built a ship, they came here, they brought weapons, and they didn't like how they were treated once they arrived. If we can't put those facts together and realize that there's a problem with the aliens not protecting themselves, then we must admit that the aliens aren't just strange, they are ludicrous.

I had the impression that the prawns in District 9 were dispossessed. That is, they were infused with the kind of hopelessness that leads to the lawless--pointless--behavior of selling weapons for food. This is merely implied in the early going, but it seemed clear to me.

That's an excellent point. Of course, we'd have to attribute human emotions to them, but I'm fine with that. I tend to think that we'd have a lot in common with a space-faring species. Possibly even some of the same emotions. I think emotions like these are simply a type of awareness that comes from being intelligent enough to be self-aware.

As for the amoral humans surrounding them, 20 years had passed. The pro-alien activists had come and gone. Early on, one of the interviews spoke of the alien tent city becoming and "instant slum", though they don't say a week, month or year. The prawns had proven themselves "inferior" too long, and all that was left to monitor them were the exploiters. I found this part entirely believable.

But we're still talking about the greatest discovery in human history. I don't care how inferior the aliens proved to be, they still came from a species which can do what we cannot (interstellar travel). I don't see how "inferior" can factor into this at all. In fact, I think we'd treat alien bacteria better than they treated these intelligent creatures. Hell, we treat animals in zoos better.

It's the central premise of the entire movie, and I just can't make it work in my mind. It screams "plot device" to me. Everything in this movie depends upon that one aspect working--the creation of District 9 and the resultant alien-human society. They didn't have to explain everything, but they needed to explain this.

Hell, they could have just said that the aliens didn't want to leave this area because they had a long-term plan to get their ship running again. Since all the junk that fell from the ship would end up right there, it's plausible that they would stay put looking for "fluid." [However, you'd think that there would be an aweful lot of this fluid up on the mother ship. Why would it only be in the junk that fell? Couldn't the aliens have traded some weapons for a helicopter ride and got that thing moving a lot sooner? Ah, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes!]

[Zarathustra]

I just wanted to add: I do think it is plausible that humans would start to view something as miraculous as another intelligent species with indifference after a while (at least some of us--the "bottom feeders" of our own societies). It's an interesting point. The miraculous becomes the mundane.

[dANdeLION]

I think we're miraculous, and I know I treat us as mundane (on a good day).

[Avatar]

I only heard about this movie today, and have only skimmed this thread to (mostly) avoid spoilers, but saw enough positive comments here and elsewhere that I might actually make a rare trip to the movies to watch this.

--A

[Zarathustra]

Av, it's definitely worth seeing. Don't let my negative comments stop you. Despite its flaws, it's one of the year's best (of course, it's been a bad year . . . ).

And if you're still reading--get the hell out of this thread! Massive spoilers, mostly from me.

I hate spoiler tags.

[Avatar]

I stopped before the spoilers got any more serious than what I'd read in non-spoiler reviews, so no problems.

Will be back when I've seen it. (Not sure when it opens here.)

--A

[Orlion]

I think this thread has progressed enough that I'm not going to use spoiler tags.

We refer to the alien technology as 'weapons' when, to the aliens, they may not be weapons at all... they may be mining equipment. Because they consider it mining equipment, they're drones, and they are not mining, the equipment would seem worthless to them and ready to trade.

Good point about the spaceship, I imagine that MNU didn't want to take it apart because they didn't want something disaesterous to happen, aka, the giant spaceship crashing into the city. That's why they wanted to find the 'command module' that broke away from the ship.

Like Earthfriend, I enjoyed the ambiguity of the movie. It reminded me of Chekov, with a little bit more resolution.

[Zarathustra]

That's why they wanted to find the 'command module' that broke away from the ship.

And while we're on that point . . . in the movie it was stated that they looked "everywhere" for the command module. I suppose "in the general viscinity below the mothership, a few feet under the ground" wasn't included in this exhaustive search?? A tourist with a metal detector could have found it!

[Orlion]

That's why they wanted to find the 'command module' that broke away from the ship.

And while we're on that point . . . in the movie it was stated that they looked "everywhere" for the command module. I suppose "in the general viscinity below the mothership, a few feet under the ground" wasn't included in this exhaustive search?? A tourist with a metal detector could have found it!

Yeah... I can't really defend that as being something more than a plot device... but I'll try anyway

One's initial reaction would be to look at the surface for this thing... after a while, though, a more extensive search for it was called off because of all the problems they were having with the aliens, and because (despite this statement contradicting what I've said in previous posts) MNU was not as interested in studying the ship as they were in getting the weapons/mining equipment working.

[ItisWritten]

As for the amoral humans surrounding them, 20 years had passed. The pro-alien activists had come and gone. Early on, one of the interviews spoke of the alien tent city becoming and "instant slum", though they don't say a week, month or year. The prawns had proven themselves "inferior" too long, and all that was left to monitor them were the exploiters. I found this part entirely believable.

But we're still talking about the greatest discovery in human history. I don't care how inferior the aliens proved to be, they still came from a species which can do what we cannot (interstellar travel). I don't see how "inferior" can factor into this at all. In fact, I think we'd treat alien bacteria better than they treated these intelligent creatures. Hell, we treat animals in zoos better.

Perhaps I should have phrased it, "proved" themselves inferior. My point being that with the mother ship labeled a derelict and the prawns as drones (a classification of lesser intelligence), many people, not just bottom-feeders, would latch onto the idea that this great discovery was not so significant. The enlightened would still want them treated better, but the exploiters--who are also in power in District 9--would use every instance of bad behavior to turn humans in general against them.

But look at Wickus' reaction when he was brought in MNU's house of horrors. Like most of us, he could ignore what might be happening until it was in his face. Still, you could see part of his outrage was over whether he had been brought there for the same reason as the prawns.

It's the central premise of the entire movie, and I just can't make it work in my mind. It screams "plot device" to me. Everything in this movie depends upon that one aspect working--the creation of District 9 and the resultant alien-human society. They didn't have to explain everything, but they needed to explain this.

Bear in mind that some of that plot device takes place near a metropolis as off the beaten path as one can get. I don't know much about Johanesburg, but it isn't Sydney, NY, Paris. Hell, it isn't even Denver.

What I'm saying is that because the setting was not a mega-media center, the daily access to the event is lessened. Sure, it's a manipulation of the storyline to achieve a far-fetched end. I didn't swallow all of it either, but it was offering a slant on human-alien relations we haven't seen before.

Hell, they could have just said that the aliens didn't want to leave this area because they had a long-term plan to get their ship running again. Since all the junk that fell from the ship would end up right there, it's plausible that they would stay put looking for "fluid." [However, you'd think that there would be an aweful lot of this fluid up on the mother ship. Why would it only be in the junk that fell? Couldn't the aliens have traded some weapons for a helicopter ride and got that thing moving a lot sooner? Ah, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes!]

Actually, they did tell us the aliens didn't want to leave the area because they had a long-term plan to get their ship running again. It was part of the story you had to wait for.

I think most of your difficulty stems from a belief that relations couldn't get as bad as they are in the movie. If the distrust becomes as bad as it was presented, then there wouldn't be fair trade options for the prawns, and they wouldn't be allowed anywhere near the mother ship.

[ItisWritten]

I just wanted to add: I do think it is plausible that humans would start to view something as miraculous as another intelligent species with indifference after a while (at least some of us--the "bottom feeders" of our own societies). It's an interesting point. The miraculous becomes the mundane.

It's also possible that there would be some disappointment with first contact, since the aliens didn't appear as intelligent, strangely talented or formidable as everyone expected.

[Zarathustra]

Perhaps I should have phrased it, "proved" themselves inferior. My point being that with the mother ship labeled a derelict and the prawns as drones (a classification of lesser intelligence), many people, not just bottom-feeders, would latch onto the idea that this great discovery was not so significant. The enlightened would still want them treated better, but the exploiters--who are also in power in District 9--would use every instance of bad behavior to turn humans in general against them.

And that would have been an interesting story. Instead of devolving into a "shoot 'em up" movie, I would have preferred more exploration of *realistic* human characters coming to these conclusions. All it would have taken was at least one character who wanted to help them, and the obstacle to this character being all the other indifferent and/or greedy humans. This character could have even been Wickus himself, but his story was instead dominated by a selfish desire to save himself, until the final 5 minutes or so.

Sure, he was disturbed by the medical experiments, but that was an extremely minor point in the film, thrown in there mainly as a set-up for Christopher's reactions, not Wickus's.

Actually, they did tell us the aliens didn't want to leave the area because they had a long-term plan to get their ship running again. It was part of the story you had to wait for.

Hmm . . . I don't remember that. I know one alien had this plan, but that doesn't explain why the rest of them stayed in this slum.

I think most of your difficulty stems from a belief that relations couldn't get as bad as they are in the movie

. Absolutely not. I think that relations could get this bad, and that's why I thought the movie was so fascinating at first. This was the aspect that drew me in. My objections come not from the concepts, but the execution. From a purely story-telling perspective, I don't think they sold the idea.

It's also possible that there would be some disappointment with first contact, since the aliens didn't appear as intelligent, strangely talented or formidable as everyone expected.

Absolutely, and that's an interesting statement on human psychology. But, again, it was implicit rather than part of the story.

I suppose a short way to say what I mean is that these concepts should have affected the characters. It's not merely an issue of making sense, i.e. plot holes. It's an issue of these concepts being important to the characters themselves, and affecting the story in a dramatic way. Otherwise, it's just set-up and plot device, and feels contrived.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

The only good thing about this film is the visuals and the potential the story had...everything else...just did not work out.

[Lord Mhoram]

We can go back and forth about plausibility for hours. This does not seem to me to be the most effective way of analyzing a film, especially in this case when arguments can easily be made for the plausibility of seemingly implausible events. I maintain that District 9 was extremely compelling, intellectually and emotionally.

Malik, you bring up an interesting point about the way humanity's reactions to the arrival of extraterrestrial life is presented in District 9. I don't think the filmmakers did a good enough job of painting a balanced portrait. The only positive reactions to the prawns are (1) the corporate investigations of their weaponry which has some semblance of awe and (2) the crude caricatures of protesters with "I <3 PRAWNS" posters and t-shirts outside District 9. Everything else is negative -- anger, racism, disdain, exploitation. I tend to think the reaction by humans would be more balanced in the real world although all those negative reactions would probably occur in the situation the film describes.

In short, it's a decidedly pessimistic view of human nature -- not so surprising, given the location used and the nationality of the filmmakers. They may have gone overboard with it since the discovery of alien life is so momentous, but to be fair, the film purposefully gives a mostly narrow slice of humanity -- only a certain class of a certain medium-sized country. The other glimpses (what I wrote about above) were too narrowly conceived as well, however. But the philosophy the film is trying to convey is certainly understandable.