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of the recent past, what with visiting the Land and all, it may not be surprising), but I don't see it as arrogant. That, I see as...well...perhaps sad.
Woops. I saw this a couple times while scrolling and didn't realize you were talking about me until I started reading Runes again today. The chapter divisions in this book should be more pronounced. Or maybe I should pay closer attention. Sorry.As a point of order, I think we should refrain from discussing text from future chapters; save it for when the chapter comes around.
You can't see him stressing that people need each other, need love, need relationships, need the healing that comes from giving and experiencing love? Then what was the whole point of having Linden "hook up" with Covenant in the first place? Was SRD making a value judgement then? Wasn't he saying something about her life being empty, an emptiness which was filled by a man?I can't see SRD making that kind of value judgement.
So she's familiar with an ache, an ache for TC, for lost love, for a--dare I say it--a man! This ache is elicited by TC's son because he reminds her of TC.At times the contrast between her experiences with Thomas Covenant and her years at Berenford Memorial discouraged her. Surely her contest with the madness of her patients could not compare with the sheer glory of Thomas Covenant's struggle to redeem the Land? Nevertheless she closed her throat and continued guiding Roger toward Joan's room. The ache he elicited was familiar to her, and she knew how to bear it.
Yes, that's exactly what I was going to say. WAY beyond the text.I disagree with that kind of view (if that wasn't obvious). Yes, I know, you're all probably going to say (as SRD likes to) that all this blather goes far beyond the text and is irrelevant to the story.
Yes, I can. But "you ain't nuthin without a man" is FAR from the same thing. I cannot see him saying that.Malik23 wrote:You can't see him stressing that people need each other, need love, need relationships, need the healing that comes from giving and experiencing love?
* My bad, too. In replying to Malik's post I did the same thing.Malik23 wrote:Woops. I saw this a couple times while scrolling and didn't realize you were talking about me until I started reading Runes again today. The chapter divisions in this book should be more pronounced. Or maybe I should pay closer attention. Sorry.As a point of order, I think we should refrain from discussing text from future chapters; save it for when the chapter comes around.
I agree, though I don't think of it as being about "a man" in any generic sense... she longs for Thomas Covenant, and for the glory of the Land (or the glory of being who she was in the Land). To me it seems like she's been *trying* to make her life at the hospital and w/ Jeremiah fill the hole that she doesn't really want to admit exists, but not quite successfully. I don't have the direct quote, but Megan says to her:
At times the contrast between her experiences with Thomas Covenant and her years at Berenford Memorial discouraged her. Surely her contest with the madness of her patients could not compare with the sheer glory of Thomas Covenant's struggle to redeem the Land? Nevertheless she closed her throat and continued guiding Roger toward Joan's room. The ache he elicited was familiar to her, and she knew how to bear it.
Malik23 wrote:So she's familiar with an ache, an ache for TC, for lost love, for a--dare I say it--a man! This ache is elicited by TC's son because he reminds her of TC.
She hasn't let go of losing Covenant... nor does she appear to want to. If she had, it would no longer hurt her, she wouldn't react when his name is mentioned, etc. She's decided to hide her pain and bear it... not the same as resolving it. Knowing SRD, this could become an important dynamic.Megan Roman, Esq. wrote: You don't talk about it but everytime Thomas Covenant's name comes up, your whole face changes. It's like he has some hold on you that I don't understand...
I hope you'll come back, MM.Matrixman wrote:Well, this discussion has been divisive, and I'm sorry if my comments have degenerated the talk further. I leave in peace.
I don't think there is ANYONE here who has said such a thing. Perhaps it is the personal value-systems of individual members which has given rise to such an interpretation."you ain't nuthin without a man" is FAR from the same thing.
It is quite menacing. I wonder if it has any more significance than to make Roger seem creepy? I hope so.Anyone have any ideas about this butcher thing?
Good observation. I can't imagine ANY Donaldson character being completely resolved at the beginning of a new series. And "knowing" SRD, I agree it could become important--if for no other reason that to illustrate once again all the ways in which humans can be inauthentic. Even when we think we're doing something good (as with the Oath of Peace), we are denying some part of ourselves.She's decided to hide her pain and bear it... not the same as resolving it. Knowing SRD, this could become an important dynamic.
Wayfriend and Malik wrote:Anyone have any ideas about this butcher thing?
It is quite menacing. I wonder if it has any more significance than to make Roger seem creepy? I hope so.
Yes, that's what I wanted to say. It goes beyond "going on with her life" or just getting laid.Malik23 wrote: You can't see him stressing that people need each other, need love, need relationships, need the healing that comes from giving and experiencing love?
Of course you can argue that her hunger cannot be satisfied by anybody else. I agree. But maybe that's beside the point. The question is whether her life is really fulfilled. Look at the way SRD describes her office. The 'strict professionalism' and tidyness (SP?) of her office seem to mirror the routine of her daily life - organized, controlled, stagnant. I don't know if SRD wants to characterize Linden's current life by this, but it was my feeling that he does.At another time, the strict professionalism of this space (=her office) might have eased her. Her displayed diplomas, like her tidy desks and heavy filing cabinets, served to vouch for her. She had found comfort among them on other occasions. But today they had no effect.
How many times had she held Thomas Covenant in her arms? Too few: not enough to satisfy her hunger for them.
Would you really object if I said that she thinks this makes her special and different from everybody else?And she was Linden Avery the Chosen, who had stood with Thomas Covenant against the Land's doom. Men like Sheriff Lytton - and Roger Covenant - could not intimidate her
I'm not sure I understood what she meant by "ache". I guess it is not just her mourning for TC but also the loss of that "sheer glory" that she's feeling?At times the contrast between her experiences with Thomas Covenant and her years at Berenford Memorial discouraged her. Surely her contest with the madness of her patients could compare with the sheer glory of Thomas Covenant's struggle to redeem the Land? Nevertheless she closed her throat and continued guiding Roger towards Joan's room. The ache which he elicited was familiar to her, and she knew how to bear it.
Her life here was not less than the one she had lived with Covenant. It was only different. Less grand, perhaps: more ambiguous, with smaller triumphs. But it sufficed.
You may be right. It didn't strike me as arrogant before I started this $%&! dissection. But once I get started...Avatar wrote:I think it may be an indication that she's living (again) too much in her past, (although considering the incredibleness
SRD doesn't beat around the bush! If you have a crappy life, he'll come out and say it pretty plainly.Though she was only thirty, she felt old, unlovely, and severe. This was just; she had lived an unlovely and severe life. Her father had died when she was eight; her mother, when she was fifteen. After three empty years in a foster home, she had put herself through college, then medical school, internship, and residency, specializing in Family Practice. She had been lonely ever since she could remember, and her isolation had largely become ingrained. Her two or three love affairs had been like hygienic exercises or experiments in physiology; they had left her untouched. So now when she looked at herself, she saw severity, and the consequences of violence.
Hard work and clenched emotions had not hurt the gratuitous womanliness of her body, or dulled the essential luster of her shoulder-length wheaten hair, or harmed the structural beauty of her face. Her driven and self-contained life had not changed the way her eyes misted and ran almost without provocation. But lines had already marked her face, leaving her with a perpetual frown of concentration above the bridge of her straight, delicate nose, and gullies like the implications of pain on either side of her mouth - a mouth which had originally been formed for something more generous than the life which had befallen her. And her voice had become flat, so that it sounded more like a diagnostic tool, a way of eliciting pertinent data, than a vehicle for communication.
But the way she had lived her life had given her something more than loneliness and a liability to black moods. It had taught her to believe in her own strength.
I think this is a good description. Yes, she's had a major personal victory in the 2nd chronicles. Obviously, she has grown and resolved some of her past issues. However, this doesn't mean that ALL her issues are resolved.I find the Linden at the start of Runes to be very similar to the Covenant we see described after returning from his first defeat of Lord Foul.
This is exactly what it feels like to lose a loved one - an intimate partner with whom you share all of your heart. When she thinks of the "sheer glory of TC's struggle...", that could be a metaphor for perfect, utter happiness with one's partner or spounse. It's easy to look back at something that once brought you bliss and be saddened, especially if something standing right in front of you reminds you of your loss. This ache of hers that she knew how to bear - it's what people learn to do after losing a partner or spouse. You find a way. The ache is there, it is always there, the hole is unique and thus can never be replaced by anything else. (I speak from experience.)At times the contrast between her experiences with Thomas Covenant and her years at Berenford Memorial discouraged her. Surely her contest with the madness of her patients could not compare with the sheer glory of Thomas Covenant's struggle to redeem the Land? Nevertheless she closed her throat and continued guiding Roger toward Joan's room. The ache he elicited was familiar to her, and she knew how to bear it.
