TIW Chapter 13, The Rock Gardens of the Maerl!

[fightingmyinstincts]

Now then. I'll do this chapter alone for a reason I'll get to in a minute.

This chapter is from Troy's view but not all that closely, if that makes any sense. What I mean to say is, we're not as far in his mind as we generally are into TC's. The first thing of any importance that happens is we notice Trell, riding towards the back, but not hiding. This disturbs HT a lil bit, and his calls Elena's and TC's attention to the rhadhamaerl's presence. TC groans and goes to talk to him. We are told by Elena that TC has reassured Trell that he does not intend to hurt the High Lord. HT has no clue what connection there could possible be b/t Trell and Elena...what struck me on this page was that, once TC had ridden over to Trell, they glare at one another for a few seconds....TC, leper, rapist, all that, has the nerve to glare at Trell! This is unexpected from someone who genuinely seems to dislike himself sometimes....yeah anyway.
Trell is obviously distressed:

"He halted where he was--still twenty-five yards away--and returned Covenant's gaze with a raw, bruised stare."

Poor guy. Trell, with his mini-desecration later on and his tragic hurting of the stone he loves when he attacks covenant is a really poignant character, just what we expect from SRD. Trell does not believe TC about his promise of Elena's safely...and I don't blame him, much as I like TC.

"But when the Warward broke march at midday for food and rest, Troy saw Trell eating with the other rhadamaerl." Does this imply that the gravelingas had found some sort of peace with his pain? I'm not sure.

This chapter is slightly significant in that HT gets to test his pace for the Warward...but he doesn't see yet how damaging it will prove to be. Amorine bluntly tells him that it can kill. I like Amorine as a character....very appropriate, somehow. HT feels crippled by leaving his army to go to Revelwood w/the Lords, and also feels very crippled by the rain that blinds him...he is struck suddenly by the idea that it will be overcast the day of the battle and he will be blind...foreshadowing any one? I seem to remember blindness at Doriendor Corishev...but not from clouds...

A goodly part of the rest of the chapter is spent describing in great and luscious detail...gotta love SRD...Trothgard, formally Kurash Plenethor, Stricken Stone. There's aliantha, gilden, lush grass, clean water...why is SRD telling us this? So we have a good clear vision of what is destroyed by the Giant-Raver's "Calling up of the old death" when he storms Revelwood...SrD wants us to know very well what's being destroyed, and we should be ver y pained by this....We can't quite come to love this region as we do Andelain, due to the shortness of our familiarity with it, but we should feel for it when it's destroyed.

Now they're passing through the gardens of the chapter's name. Troy doesn't quite get the message of these grotesque formations, either passing through them or viewing them from above. Hile Troy is truly blind; he is a great tactician, loves the Land and the High Lord...but some things escape him, human nature particularly...His distance between two points is very short, if you understand me. Not quite blunt, but...something else...

"Out of tortured stone, the makers of the garden had designed a wide face--a broad countenance with lumped gnarled and twisted features. The unevenness of the rock made the face appear bruised and contorted; its eyes were as ragged as deep wounds, and the roadway cut through it like an aimless scar. But despite all this, the face was stretched with a grin of immense cheerfulness. The unexpectedness of it startled Troy into a low, glad burst of laughter."

The face of Trothgard should be reminiscent of Pitchwife to you second chroniclers. It struck me as familiar this time around. Covenant understands the meaning of the gardens...as they apply to his life, but there are pieces of it that escape him too. His story saddens the company. But I'm not sure they understand it as he meant it...it puzzles me too.
His next comment is interesting.

After a moment, he muttered through the company's murmuring, "Well, the GIants certainly must be proud of you."
His tone was ambuguous, as if he were trying to say two contradictory things at once. But his reference to the Giants overshadowed anything else he might have meant.

Does TC's statement mean anything? Does anyone else have any ideas as to what two contradictory things he might be trying to say? Or are we even supposed to be trying to guess this?

Ok, am I right in thinking this is where Gildenfire goes? I won't cover it, 'cos I haven't read it, so what now? I think it deserves mentioning...and I can get it soon enough...

[danlo]

Gilden-fire starts where the chapter, Korik's Mission ends--chronologically u may b right the main part and the start of their journey to the Sarangrave may be happening right now...beautiful job FMI...can't wait 4 ur next installment!

[Dromond]

This chapter has always confused me as to what SRD is hinting at or whatever. After TC tells his story of the leprous lady and her indomnitable spirit, TC says he'd wring her husband's neck.That I understand--but Mhoram then says

"Ur-Lord Covenant is a prophet."
"Does he foretell the Fate of the Land?" Amatin asked painfully.
"No!" Elena's denial was fierce, and Mhoram breathed also, "No." But Troy could hear That Mhoram meant something different.

This passage remains unclear to me after many readings. Anyone?
And thanks FMI!
And thanks danlo! right as usual!

[Earthfriend]

Thanks for the tops review FMI! And i'm just as lost as you and Dromond - this chapter is certainly filled with the paradox of white gold!

With your points in mind, i'll re-read it again tonight and see if anything springs out at me

[Damelon]

The story puzzled me for a long time. I think the best reading of it is if it is read as a fortelling of the face being the Land under Foul's winter, and the husband as Foul; then it's definitely foretelling TC's future course of action.

[Dag son of Dag]

That indomnitable spirit of the leprous lady reminds me of Mhoram..he certainly doesn`t give up easily. But there are other things that doesnt match.

Anyway, maybe it points to Elena abandoning Mhoram, Troy and the Warward to go on a quest of her own.

Or maybe it just shows how poorly Covenant communicates with the people of the Land: he tells a story without meaning anything particular with it, and everyone starts interpreting and searching for hidden meanings.

Doesn`t it remind you of how TC was abandoned by Joan, the way the leprous lady was abandoned by her husband? Maybe that`s partly the reason for why TC was so upset about it.

[Earthfriend]

Mhoram very specifically says that Covenant is not foretelling the fate of the Land. As to what he is foretelling...

I can't help thinking that it's somehow tied in with Elena. there's the rock-garden face, horribly disfigured and grotesque, and yet still smiling out at the world, oblivious to it's own condition. And here's Elena, so full of love for the Land and Covenant, guided by her unfocused gaze, that she's oblivious to the probabilty of destruction under her nose....

I don't know I'm probably way off...!

Maybe, Covenant is just foretelling the future end of the giants of Seareach?

As to Covenant's story about the woman he met in the leper clinic, i think he wanted to remind the Lords - who have never known such a terrible disease as leprosy -that there is always more than one way to look at things...Also, the face obviously struck a nerve with him.

[duchess of malfi]

To me the wife in the story represents the Land -- for no matter how diseased she gets, no matter how disfigured, there is still great beauty in her. The husband stands for Lord Foul, for the someone who could do a great good for his wife but makes other choices. In saying that he would wring the husband's neck, TC is indicating that he will someday do what is necessary to protect the Land. Rather than indicating the fate of the Land, he is indicating his own fate.
Or so I have always interpreted this passage.
I will freely admit I might be completely off, though.

[Earthfriend]

No, i don't think you are off, duchess , that's one of the best interpretations ive read so far

[FMI]

You make an interesting point about LF, duchess...he does have power to do great good for the land! I never thought of that....he could do such cool stuff with his power...or is his power inherently corrupt? If he wanted to do good, could he?

[Dag son of Dag]

Maybe LF is fundamentally evil, like the Illearth Stone.. I don`t think it`s possible to use the Illearth Stone for something good because of things that are said later in the book (I can`t use that spoiler thingy, so I won`t get into those now ).

[danlo]

FMI I hate 2 b a pushy mod, but r u ever going 2 do chapter 14?

[stonedowner A]

My interpretation is that Covenant, ever the pessimist, was indeed foretelling the fate of the Land. As the Unfettered One told Covenant at Glimmermere, Covenant dreams the truth.

The story that Covenant tells is one about a woman with leprosy who is always the optimistic and incredibly giving, but to the cost of her own life. The woman does not follow VSE or the techniques that Covenant does in order to gain strict control over his life and leprosy. She wanted to make others happy and not give up dancing even as it cost her health. Whenever she goes out for more dancing, she is implicitly trusting fate that she will hopefully be okay even though all of her doctors have warned her against these activities.

In the Land, Covenant still clings to his Unbelief, and his pessimism that Foul has all the tools necessary to win the war with ease. If Foul could defeath Kevin Landwaster, how could the new Lords hope to defeat him even they hadn't come close to mastering much of Kevin's Lore, and hadn't invented any new lore except mind melding. (and that's not going to do much against Foul.) Therefore, the symbolism between Covenant's story and the current state of the Land is that the woman is the Land, and the disease of leprosy is Despite and Foul. The people of the Land always believe that they are going out and doing something correct, but Covenant always argues that they are just doing exactly what Foul wants. They go out dancing thinking that is something good, but when they come back, they are becoming more and more diseased. Covenant is arguing that Foul turns your best intentions against you, slowly whittling you away until you become someone like Kevin.

My interpretation of the husband is that he is Covenant. The husband divorced his wife because she could not have children. If he had stayed with her, perhaps she could have followed the correct treatment and survived. TC does not believe the Land is real and wishes to abandon it. Perhaps TC does not realize it, but when he says that he wants to strangle the husband, perhaps he is saying he wants to strangle himself for his inability and cowardliness in saving the Land.

At least, that is my interpretation of the story. Mhoram denied that this was a prophecy, but his no had little conviction to it.

[dlbpharmd]

Yay! Someone's posting in DTL forum again!

Therefore, the symbolism between Covenant's story and the current state of the Land is that the woman is the Land, and the disease of leprosy is Despite and Foul. The people of the Land always believe that they are going out and doing something correct, but Covenant always argues that they are just doing exactly what Foul wants. They go out dancing thinking that is something good, but when they come back, they are becoming more and more diseased. Covenant is arguing that Foul turns your best intentions against you, slowly whittling you away until you become someone like Kevin.

Damn, that's good.....really good!

[shadowbinding shoe]

The Rock Garden was a strong story. So what does it mean? I like Stonedowner's interpretation. But if Mhoram is right and this prophecy is not about the land, I'd say it isn't about Elena either. She doesn't fit it too well. The one that does fit it is her mother, Lena. She gets raped (the leprosy) and instead of fighting it she goes on trying to dance her way through life telling herself Covenant loves her and she's his queen. The husband could be Thomas himself or Triok

Spoiler

who leaves her in the hands of her raper in order to do other things (in TPTP)

or the lords themselves.

I think Lena is the better interpretation than the Land. After all what more can they do for their beloved Land? Thomas rebukes the Lords with this story because in the case of Lena, instead of following justice in this matter by punishing Thomas Covenant or trying to heal Lena by helping her deal with the truth or even denouncing Thomas for his misdeed and handling their problems without his help they hash it all up, let Lena and her family handle their problems by themselves while they try to reap any possible benefit from Thomas (within the limitations of their already compromised ethics) and hailing him as their hero.

[sindatur]

To me the wife in the story represents the Land -- for no matter how diseased she gets, no matter how disfigured, there is still great beauty in her. The husband stands for Lord Foul, for the someone who could do a great good for his wife but makes other choices. In saying that he would wring the husband's neck, TC is indicating that he will someday do what is necessary to protect the Land. Rather than indicating the fate of the Land, he is indicating his own fate.
Or so I have always interpreted this passage.
I will freely admit I might be completely off, though.

This was what I felt too when listening to it this morning. Every time Covenant returns to the Land, a little more of it's beauty has been eaten away, but, it still retains something of it's indominable spirit

[wayfriend]

"If we are a dream - and you the dreamer - then the Land is imperishable, for you will not forget."

for the beauty may die,
or the beholder may die,
or the world may die,
but the soul in which the flower grows survives.

[Running Amok]

I reread this chapter today, and am frankly astounded that Stephen Donaldson would have done this. The image formed by the rocks, Covenant's tale of the leper woman, and his comment about her husband should make it clear enough, but then Mhoram goes and gives it all to us, the readers, on a silver plate, suggesting that Covenant is a prophet.

The Rock Gardens of Maerl tell us point blank how the 1st chronicles end.

First, the rock garden itself. We're told it's mishappen and disfigured. Tell you what: google search images for the term "leprosy" and compare them to the descriptions of the face formed by the rocks. Simple enough. Now, in addition to this, we're told this face appears quite happy, smiling cheerfully. Wonder if Covenant got the message?

Seems he did, for he immediately launches into his tale of the woman in the leprosarium who did not abide by what Covenant would have called the laws of leprosy. She did not let leprosy kill her human spirit. She still tried to live life as a human, not as a "leper." Naturally, she pays a price for this: her disease does progress more rapidly than it otherwise would have. She loses jobs and her marriage. Now Covenant says something astounding and utterly out of character.

He'd wring her husband's neck! Not "silly woman, serves you right for not minding your disease." But that he'd punish the person who should have stayed by her side through her travail - a pain Covenant himself knows all too well.

Next, Mhoram announces that Covenant is a "prophet", which is a pretty clear indication that he's forseeing the future. But the future of what? Not the Land, Elena reassures us, and Mhoram concurs. No, not the land, but not exactly. He meant something "different." What the hell is that supposed to mean?

It means that Thomas Covenant is fortelling the fate of Thomas Covenant. Which, when you think about it, means that he is fortelling the fate of the land.

The face in the rock garden is Thomas Covenant seeing himself in the future. With leprosy. And also his humanity - the wide grin. That this will come to pass is evidenced in his statement that he'd wring the leper woman's husband's neck. He's willing to stand up for the weak, the sick, the helpless against those who would despise them. This isn't a man who'se fated to be successful in his attempts to drive his own spirit out so that he can live as a shell of a man who's sold his soul to the foul word that is "Leper." He won't allow himself to. He can't. He proves this when he saves the little girl who takes a rattlesnake bite at the beginning of TPTP. That's the crux on which this whole tale turns. It's now just a question of how long it takes before he includes himself in the category of sick and injured people he decides to make a stand for.

[dlbpharmd]

Awesome post! And, it's great to have a fresh voice in DTL. You must read 2nd and Last Chronicles asap!

[SleeplessOne]

I reread this chapter today, and am frankly astounded that Stephen Donaldson would have done this. The image formed by the rocks, Covenant's tale of the leper woman, and his comment about her husband should make it clear enough, but then Mhoram goes and gives it all to us, the readers, on a silver plate, suggesting that Covenant is a prophet.

The Rock Gardens of Maerl tell us point blank how the 1st chronicles end.

First, the rock garden itself. We're told it's mishappen and disfigured. Tell you what: google search images for the term "leprosy" and compare them to the descriptions of the face formed by the rocks. Simple enough. Now, in addition to this, we're told this face appears quite happy, smiling cheerfully. Wonder if Covenant got the message?

Seems he did, for he immediately launches into his tale of the woman in the leprosarium who did not abide by what Covenant would have called the laws of leprosy. She did not let leprosy kill her human spirit. She still tried to live life as a human, not as a "leper." Naturally, she pays a price for this: her disease does progress more rapidly than it otherwise would have. She loses jobs and her marriage. Now Covenant says something astounding and utterly out of character.

He'd wring her husband's neck! Not "silly woman, serves you right for not minding your disease." But that he'd punish the person who should have stayed by her side through her travail - a pain Covenant himself knows all too well.

Next, Mhoram announces that Covenant is a "prophet", which is a pretty clear indication that he's forseeing the future. But the future of what? Not the Land, Elena reassures us, and Mhoram concurs. No, not the land, but not exactly. He meant something "different." What the hell is that supposed to mean?

It means that Thomas Covenant is fortelling the fate of Thomas Covenant. Which, when you think about it, means that he is fortelling the fate of the land.

The face in the rock garden is Thomas Covenant seeing himself in the future. With leprosy. And also his humanity - the wide grin. That this will come to pass is evidenced in his statement that he'd wring the leper woman's husband's neck. He's willing to stand up for the weak, the sick, the helpless against those who would despise them. This isn't a man who'se fated to be successful in his attempts to drive his own spirit out so that he can live as a shell of a man who's sold his soul to the foul word that is "Leper." He won't allow himself to. He can't. He proves this when he saves the little girl who takes a rattlesnake bite at the beginning of TPTP. That's the crux on which this whole tale turns. It's now just a question of how long it takes before he includes himself in the category of sick and injured people he decides to make a stand for.

what a brilliantly insightful post Running Amok - I always loved this scene, but felt the nagging feeling that I was missing something - you have really pulled away the veil on this now-even-more brilliant scene for me - SRD's powers of foreshadowing have been remarked upon before, but he really outdoes himself here.

again SRD shows us a glimpse of Mhoram's intuitive nature too.

thanks for making me love the Illearth War even more !!