Illegal Aliens

[Kil Tyme]

I went back a few months here and saw no Illegal Alien threads. No Illegal Alien threads ... in the Tank!? Of all places, an issue that involves all countries should have at least one thread here...or even one post.

Well, I'll start one with this post:

Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily.

worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103

My kin has been in america since the 1830's; hoped off the boat in Baltimore, all legal like, too. Don't know of a single murderer amoungst us (but there might have been a horse thief long ago shhhhh).

So, Illegal Aliens... ya fer em or agin em. Give em the vote or give them the rope. We use our taxes to feed and house and imprision them when the get wiley like the post above. I don't like the idea of a wall; that's nuts, and tagging them in the ear or with neck-radios to keep track is too much, but something has to be done obviously.

I am coming around to the idea of an offical language law, too. I think one language binds a country more than having a few different languages. I say all this reading where at least in the US migrants have a better chance of being absorbed into the culture unlike in many European countries: France for example.

Anyway, that article was an eye opener to me.

[sindatur]

I definitely am against illegal immigration. Everyone should be screened before being allowed in. Jose Padilla raped and murdered a little girl, and was an illegal from South of Mexico, I believe, who had priors. If he had been caught in screening, that little girl would still be alive. Even if that was the only instance anyone could point to, I would hold the same stance, but tp hear there really are stats showing almost 4400 Americans per year are killed by illegal immigrants, is astounding.

I agree, I'm not really in favor of the wall either. Far better to penalize employers, develop a screening process for a work program that won't erode wages, and bill their home country for "Welfare" expenses incurred (hospital care, etc)

[Lord Mhoram]

I wonder how many Americans are killed by Americans?

[finn]

A native American Indian might have a different view KT, but hopping off a boat, annexing someone else's land and then legitimising it seems to be pretty common theses days.

(I assume your kin didn't kill any Native Indians either, tho' would that count as murder?)

More seriously, the cost of them might also be balanced by their use in the workforce as cheap labour, is that not the case in agricultural and textile industries?

The article makes a number of suggestions, inferences and estimates but its use of statistics really seems a bit of a crock and if used in a similar manner across the general population might suggest that at least one member of the family is (statistically at least) a criminal.......back onto the boat KT!

[sgt.null]

build a wall between us and Mexico. start rounding them up and shipping them home. if they want to live here, file the paperwork.

[sindatur]

A native American Indian might have a different view KT, but hopping off a boat, annexing someone else's land and then legitimising it seems to be pretty common theses days.

(I assume your kin didn't kill any Native Indians either, tho' would that count as murder?)

More seriously, the cost of them might also be balanced by their use in the workforce as cheap labour, is that not the case in agricultural and textile industries?

The article makes a number of suggestions, inferences and estimates but its use of statistics really seems a bit of a crock and if used in a similar manner across the general population might suggest that at least one member of the family is (statistically at least) a criminal.......back onto the boat KT!

Yes, the employers get cheaper labor, but, they do not pass that savings along to the consumer, they keep the profit, and it erodes wages of Middle class jobs. Not a wise, nor an equitable trade off IMHO. Construction wages have eroded by as much as 25% in some places, as well benefits decreases, but, Construction prices have not come down. We pay farmers not to grow food. Surely we would be better off without the illegal Cheap labor, and using that subsidy to instead pay the farmers to grow food and help them pay a decent wage.

Every Country on Earth has been invaded and conquered at one time or another, the facts of what we did to the Indians 200+ years ago, do not mean anything to the illegal immigration debate, aside from "see what can happen"

[sgt.null]

and we don't get a better working wage because there are so many illegals who will do the job cheaper. it hurts the working man.

[sindatur]

I wonder how many Americans are killed by Americans?

What does that matter? Americans are already here, and subject to American laws. Keeping illegal immigrants out who have murder and rape convictions has nothing to do with crime engaged in by legal citizens.

If immigrants want to work here, I'm not opposed to that, just make sure you know who you're letting in, and that you have a process to handle them, and allow them to be working legally so they are not abused by employers (as currently happens) and do not erode wages because they can be paid dirt wages

[Lord Mhoram]

sindatur,

It matters because the fact that illegals kill x amount of Americans is being touted as some sort of remarkably interesting statistic. Are you equating illegals with an exponential rise in murder?

[sgt.null]

let's enact the same ilegal immigration laws that Mexico has.

[sindatur]

sindatur,

It matters because the fact that illegals kill x amount of Americans is being touted as some sort of remarkably interesting statistic. Are you equating illegals with an exponential rise in murder?

Not at all. I'm saying run a background check, and if it comes back dirty, don't let them in. We don't want felons voting, but we're OK with Violent Felons roaming the street freely? No thanks. If you have been convicted in Mexico, or Brazil, or whereever of raping or murdering, than I absolutely don't want you in this country. I don't see how anyone can see this as unfair.

[High Lord Tolkien]

A Republican controlled House, Senate and President did jacksquat about illegals over the last 6 years.


Dems will make them all citizens and probably give them debit cards to welcome them here too!

[Lord Mhoram]

sin,

Oh absolutely. I agree. I don't think that was the gist of the posted article though. I got the impression that their point was more "Look at how dangerous and violent illegal immigrants are!"

[finn]

Quite right.

Sin apart from the tongue-in-cheek dig at KT (I thought that was what the emoticons were there to clarify???), people get fat on the backs of illegal immigration which in turn encourages it, if there was no way to get work perhaps it might be less of an attractive option.

Also, surely its not possible to vet illegal immigrants?

[sindatur]

A Republican controlled House, Senate and President did jacksquat about illegals over the last 6 years.


Dems will make them all citizens and probably give them debit cards to welcome them here too!

Are you calling the Democrats in Congress now Reaganites? 'Cause that's exactly what Reagan did, made them all citizens (No he didn't give them debit cards, but, making them citizens almost assuredly resulted in Welfare eligibility)

[sindatur]

sin,

Oh absolutely. I agree. I don't think that was the gist of the posted article though. I got the impression that their point was more "Look at how dangerous and violent illegal immigrants are!"

Ah, I thought you were disagreeing with my stance, not with the tone of the article.

[Lord Mhoram]

Nope. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Kil Tyme]

Wow, I post this, go get some taco bell and all this activity. Sin did an artful and outstanding job of countering some of the usual suspects. I will admit the article does relate itself to how many killed in Iraq, etc (not in itself a bad thing cause like everything should it does lend itself to some perspective), but I was amazed at the numbers involved. And yes HLT, one of the many reasons the pubs blew it these last few sessions.

It's also interesting that mexico does not want to end things on their end cause illegals bring back $20 Billion to mexican economy:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/a ... 00351.html

And Finn, no Irish Tyme ansestors killed any natives...they were gone long before...killed off by the British.

[Holsety]

I wonder how many Americans are killed by Americans?

I was wondering the exact same thing.

One site I just looked at says 13.4 in 100000 in 1997.

200million (conservative estimate I believe)/100000=2000*13.4=26,800

I don't even know if that math makes sense. OH WELL. Also no idea what 05, 06, 0? murder rates are like. What period of time is the stat based on? Too lazy to check in my case.

I wouldn't have a problem with immigrant labor, if the government made a law that somehow made people pay the same amount to an immigrant as they would to an american worker, and other laws which would make hiring immigrants in no particular way more efficient than hiring americans, and then enforced those laws.

No idea how to get that done in real life.

It's also interesting that mexico does not want to end things on their end cause illegals bring back $20 Billion to mexican economy:

Well, quite frankly, I can't blame them for wanting that money. Obviously america should be finding out how to make more money off these people coming in.

I don't really like the idea of trying to enforce border patrols and stuff. If people are desperate, they can just come in through normal entrypoints and apply for asylum and work while the USDOJ gets stuffed full of asylum cases they can't finish quickly enough. I mean, you could probably mop individual ones which are clear BS quickly, but not if everyone applied for it in a timely manner and such. Asylum is already used as an attempt to get in by immigrants. And it'd probably make it harder to actually get asylum for those who do have a real case.

And there are tons of other things I'd imagine would get jammed up under our current way of working things if we tried serious enforcement.

EDIT-Weren't Irish people in gangs and stuff doing bad stuff? I know there was some movie called Gangs of New York, though I never watched it and have no idea how realistic it is.

[Kil Tyme]

That's not the point of the article, but if you want to draw other conclusions or tangents, then why not how many dogs killed americans, how many cars accidents killed americans, how many people choke on chicken bones, etc? The effect of the article is that people who illegally enter the US kill a great many of us; thus, if there was a robust way to keep these illegals out of the US, that many more CITIZENS would not be killed.