Euthanasia?

Free discussion of anything human or divine ~ Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality

Moderators: Xar, Fist and Faith

User avatar
Cameraman Jenn
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 13280
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM (The Land of Enchantment)

Post by Cameraman Jenn »

I am sure if any of us were in his shoes we would have a different outlook on life.
Now if I could just find a way to wear live bees as jewelry all the time.....

www.fantasybedtimehour.com
User avatar
Holsety
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 3422
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Principality of Sealand

Post by Holsety »

variol son wrote:Also, advocating therapy and meds for someone who can't move at all is a little patronizing. What are we hoping to do - convince them to be happy about the fact that their body is a prison?
"Men simply copied the realities of their hearts when they built prisons"
~Ely Houston

Sorry for that bit of triteness. It doesn't really fit but I was somehow reminded of the above quote.

Anyway, I think I understand the why of suicide being against the law; it costs, especially when someone in their teenage years, who in schooling costs among other things represents an investment by the people of their nation.

And frankly I can kinda understand that. I don't blame the law for leaving this bit of deterrence and insurance; the insurance that because people see suicide as illegal and therefore somehow taboo, they may be less likely to perform it. Ultimately, we don't actually stop those who wish to die from doing so most of the time - though I find it ironic that those who are hardest put to end their time often have the worst situations in many ways - but perhaps we deter some who have the best chance to recover?
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

Sorry Holsety, I can't imagine the fact that suicide's illegal has ever deterred anyone from attempting or going through with it.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
User avatar
variol son
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 5777
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 1:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Post by variol son »

Cail, you can tell when I'm talking about the Italian man, right? :?

Ok, my comment about offering therapy and meds being patronizing was made in the context of the guy who has a degenerative disease and can't move or talk. I wasn't talking about kids suffering teenage angst.

I believe that teenagers suffering from depression should be offered therapy and meds - part of the whole "tell them they shouldn't but not that they can't" thing Cail mentioned earlier and that I agreed with not-so-earlier.
You do not hear, and so you cannot be redeemed.

In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.

He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

Yep, with you 100%.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

but where do you draw the line? if you agree that is an option, who isn't it an option for? aren't you denying someone the option by not offering it?
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

We deny minors the ability to drink alcohol. It's simple, if you're an adult, you can off yourself if you wish.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

a bad idea. and one i hope never passes.

pretty soon we would have Soylent Green centers so old people were no longer a burden to their families. the goveremnt would also advocate, so ss was no longer a problem.
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
DukkhaWaynhim
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 9195
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:35 pm
Location: Deep in thought

Post by DukkhaWaynhim »

That's assuming everybody over the age of x would want to off themselves - I don't see that. I want to be the crotchetiest geezer in the old folks home, but that;s because I have a zest for life, not because I have been chained to my mortal coil by Big Bro'.

DW
"God is real, unless declared integer." - Unknown
Image
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

i am more worried about families and people with the POA wanting to off the old folks. or offing people off who have degenerative diseases.
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
Cameraman Jenn
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 13280
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM (The Land of Enchantment)

Post by Cameraman Jenn »

Come on Sarge, if suicide became legal it's not like people are gonna be lining up for the needle, let alone government enforced suicide, that's just ridiculous.
Now if I could just find a way to wear live bees as jewelry all the time.....

www.fantasybedtimehour.com
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

really? have you seen how many people get dumped in nursing homes? have you seen how many families never visit? and how many of these families have poa? and how many are just waiting for the person to die so they can get monies and properties? if suicide is legal, how long before someone sues to wipe out the exception with insurance companies? if it is a fundamental right then insurance and wills will need to be adjusted. remember how abortion would never be used as birth control? and now we have over a million abortions a year? do you honestly believe we won't have high suicide/euthancide numbers?
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

Jesus Dennis, get off the shell game. No one's talking about Soylent Green or allowing someone else to make the decision. What we're talking about is adults having the right to end their lives for themselves.

Someone get a blower to get all this straw out of here.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
User avatar
Cameraman Jenn
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 13280
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM (The Land of Enchantment)

Post by Cameraman Jenn »

I know....how did we get around to government advocating murder?
Now if I could just find a way to wear live bees as jewelry all the time.....

www.fantasybedtimehour.com
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

logical conclusions. taking your argument further.
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

Hardly logical. Explain, if you will, how decriminalizing suicide somehow becomes the government, insurance companies, and family members being able to kill someone.

This should be interesting.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
User avatar
Cameraman Jenn
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 13280
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM (The Land of Enchantment)

Post by Cameraman Jenn »

I agree with you Sweet Knees....I can't wait to see Sarge's line of logic....
Now if I could just find a way to wear live bees as jewelry all the time.....

www.fantasybedtimehour.com
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

:oops:
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
User avatar
DukkhaWaynhim
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 9195
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:35 pm
Location: Deep in thought

Post by DukkhaWaynhim »

I'm not certain we should decriminalize suicide. I definitely don't think insurance companies will ever pay out for suicide, nor should they. I don't advocate suicide as a good solution to anything. BUT, similar to the way we don't prevent a person from eating doughnuts by the pound even though it is tantamount to self-assault with a deadly weapon (let's conveniently ignore the ridiculous illegal trans-fat thing in NYC, shall we?) we should not forbid someone from making a well thought-out (yet decidedly bad) decision to take their own life.

DW
"God is real, unless declared integer." - Unknown
Image
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

The insurance companies have nothing to do with it. Insurance companies can refuse coverage for all sorts of legal activities.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Post Reply

Return to “The Close”