Prog

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:16 pm

I searched this forum twice, and didn't see this topic, so I figured I'd start it myself, as I like prog, even though I'm sure I'm in the minority. I looked up prog on wikipedia, and came up with THIS: I really like the depths that article got into, and am surprised by the amount of bands I really, really like that appear in said article. I was a bit surprised that Supertramp wasn't mentioned, but maybe I just overlooked them.

It's funny, but growing up down here in Tampa, I hardly ever heard any prog. If I went by what the radio played, I'd have thought Yes made 3 albums; The Yes Album, 90125, and Big Generator. Then they broke up, never to be heard from again. King Crimson had one album, with one song on it, both titled "The Court Of The Crimson King", then they broke up and the bassist started ELP. There was no band named Camel. Pink FLoyd was not prog. Genisis was DEFINITELY never prog, and Peter Gabriel was never in Genesis; he only guest appeared on a song called "Lamb Lies Down On Broadway". Rush, ELP and Jethro Tull were given a fair acount, but only grudgingly. For instance, I remember listening to the radio when I was 17, and the dj announced the next song would be by Canada's premiere rock trio. So I turned up the radio in hopes of hearing Tom Sawyer, YYZ or Red Barchetta, only to hear "Fight The Good Fight". Disgusted, I almost called the dj, but figured what's the point, he's just anothet anti-progite.

It's funny; rock has always been the target of parents and televangelists for the deviant lifestyles most of its stars live, yet when I look at prog musicians, I never see them getting in trouble for the myriad things you consistently see from regular rock stars. There is no prog analogy to Jimi Hendrix, Curt Cobain, Bon Scott, Janis Joplin, John Bonham, Syd Viscious, Peter Green, Joe Perry, Bob Dylan....need I go on? And yet, rock itself seems to hold prog rock in the same contempt that parents and evangelists hold rock in. Irony, or hypocracy? Who can tell.

Post by **A Gunslinger** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:20 pm

I like "Lucky Man" form ELP, but for the most part, I think why PURE "prgressive rock" as defined by the late 60's early 70's, was perceived to be pretentious and well, a little boring. Your mention of Rush and Genesis kind of prooves it. They had elements of prog, but were more rockin' than the likes of the pure proggers.

YES has been known to drive many a rock-lover to suicide.

Post by **Cail** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:25 pm

The televangelists never bitched about Frank Zappa?

I dunno, I don't like the "prog" label, and I certainly wouldn't consider Floyd to be prog (but hey, that's me).

I really don't like a lot of what's called prog, with the exception of the more rocking stuff (Rush, Zappa, etc).

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:40 pm

Heh, that article did mention Zappa, didn't it? Well, down here, all we heard of Zappa was "Valley Girl", and one time I heard "Yellow Snow". I thought FZ was some kind of Weird Al knockoff, for Christs sake!

Post by **A Gunslinger** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:43 pm

Zappa is pretty cool. Like "Dynamo Humm" alot.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:12 pm

No, it's Dinah Moe Hum!

Post by **A Gunslinger** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:33 pm

Is that the correct spelling? Cool. Good song.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:36 pm

Well, now you made me check. The correct spelling on the cd is 'Dinah-Moe Humm'. Ahh, the lengths I go for youse guys.......

Post by **Usivius** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:16 pm

LOVE Prog.
And there are many who will dispute the definition. Sheesh, I've read where 'Saga' was lumped in to the "prog-rock" category ...!

It is definately an English creation, with inspiration/starting-point springing from the Beatles album, "Srg. Peppers..."

Yes and King Crimson are the only early prog bands that are still putting out studio albums today.

If I can remember, I will pull out an great quote from Robert Fripp about his definition of Progressive Rock (for those of you who have it, it can be found in the liner notes of the double live CD, Absent Lovers).

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:09 pm

Hey, what in the hell is going on here? Why hasn't this thread been stickied? I thought all the threads here got stickied!

Post by **danlo** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:45 pm

Interesting article--glad to see that it, at least, includes Van Der Graff Generator and Gentle Giant. Also interesting to see that he lists Soft Machine and The Nice is primary influences. The Nice in particular--Keith Emerson was the prime mover and shaker of the Nice and, like Zappa and Rick Wakeman (Yes), is a classically trained musician. That's basically what defines prog rock for me-"adventurous keyboarding", as it were. From the mellotron to the mini-moog, Manfred Mann, Peter Bradens (Camel), Tony Banks (Genesis), Richard Wright (Pink Floyd) and Alan Parsons being some prime examples. "Adventurous keyboarding" is an acquired taste there are some keyboardists like; Wakeman, Bradens and Emerson that can take it to the limit, or over the limit. That music can be both awe-inspiring and grating at the same time, like: when in the hell is The Six Wives of Henry XIII ever going to end!? And how far out is Gentle Giant (truly the A System of a Down of their day) going to take this!?

Some key movers of the prog genre, if you will, were multi-instrumentalists like Andy Lattimer (Camel), Derek Shulman (Gentle Giant) and Robert Fripp and everybody tended to influence everybody else. As I said in the Camel thread Lattimer was a major unseen influence on such great guitarists as David Gilmore, Steve Howe and Duanne Allman. I'll have more thoughts later...Chris Squire is GOD! (they should have mentioned Carl Palmer's old band, Atomic Rooster and Rhinocerous in the article too...)

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:54 pm

If you like Mellotrons, then you'll love Spock's Beard!

Post by **danlo** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:00 pm

I'll give 'er a whirl!

(It used to be called "Art Rock" back in the day.)

Post by **Usivius** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:33 pm

Prog according to Fripp:

"Progressive" during 1968/9 - 1975/6 desribed where the venacular and convervatory traditions collided, and in England. Within a purely English context this immediately had class implications as indicated class distinction: the vernacualr / oral tradition had a greater resonance for those with a strong working-class background; the training associated with musical literacy, and time available for practicing, more available to children of middle class families, or at least where the families could affort music lessons.

yah, classic Fripp.

For me, broken down, this is rock music blending with classical music elements, such as time signatures and forming of musical ideas and language.
Yes, King Crimson, ELP, Gentle Giant, Jethrol Tull, Genesis, .... these are some, to name a few, of the bands that embodied this idea.

Post by **danlo** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:33 am

Van Der Graff Generator (1970), deep, dark progenitors of prog Darkness

Post by **lucimay** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:19 am

Love comes to you and you follow
Lose one on to the heart of the sunrise
Sharp-distance
How can the wind with its arms
All around me

Lost on a wave and then after
Dream on on to the heart of the sunrise
Sharp-distance
How can the wind with so many around me
Lost in the city

Lost in their eyes as you hurry by
Counting the broken ties they decide
Love comes to you and then after
Dream on on to the heart of the sunrise
Lost on a wave that youre dreaming
Dram on on to the heart of the sunrise
Sharp-distance
How can the wind with its arms all around
Me
Sharp-distance
How can the wind with so many around me
I feel lost in the city

Lost in their eyes as you hurry by
Counting the broken ties they decided

Straightt light moving and removing
Sharpness of the colour sun shine
Straight light searching all the meanings
Of the song
Long last treatment of the telling that
Relates to all the words sung
Dreamer easy in the chair that really fits
You

Love comes to you and then after
Dream on on to the heart of the sunrise
Sharp-distance
How can the sun with its arms all around
Me
Sharp-distance
How can the wind with so many around me
I feel lost in the city

Post by **Usivius** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:27 pm

One of the classics!
Superb choice Lucy...

Post by **lucimay** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:33 pm

right on!

never forget my first Yes concert!!

Relayer Tour. green laser lights.

chris squire is still on my
marriage list.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:50 pm

Oddly enough, he's on my marriage list too!

Post by **Relayer** » Thu May 24, 2007 4:45 pm

A Gunslinger wrote:I like "Lucky Man" form ELP, but for the most part, I think why PURE "prgressive rock" as defined by the late 60's early 70's, was perceived to be pretentious and well, a little boring. Your mention of Rush and Genesis kind of prooves it. They had elements of prog, but were more rockin' than the likes of the pure proggers.

Genesis was "more rocking"???

From 70-78 they were almost all prog. Supper's Ready, The Musical Box, The Lamb, Firth of Fifth... I can't think of anything I'd really call rocking. Only after Steve Hackett left did they begin to morph into the better-known version.

Usivius wrote:Yes and King Crimson are the only early prog bands that are still putting out studio albums today.

Sadly, in Yes' case, that is in question, although there appear to be plans for a tour in 2008. I'm sure Gunslinger will not share in the joy should this event come to pass

dANdeLION wrote:If you like Mellotrons, then you'll love Spock's Beard!

My favorite "current" prog band!!! And not only because of the mellotrons. They write great songs. Although I liked them better w/ Neal.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Prog

Prog