Random / General News

[matrixman]

Since the Tank doesn't have a random/general news thread [Yes we do. --A](don't get me started), I looked around and figured this was the least-objectionable place to put it.

TORONTO (CP) - They were in town to discuss economics and humanity but it was Canada's health-care system the audience wanted advice about.

Asked about the growing interest by some for a privatization of the health-care system, former U.S. president Bill Clinton said Monday night that Canadians should think long and hard before making any move. "Whatever you do, there's no such thing as a perfect system," the charismatic leader told the approximately 250 dinner guests, which included Finance Minister Jim Flaherty and businessman Conrad Black, attending the inaugural World Leaders Forum.

But Clinton said the last thing anyone would want to do is let the "health care finance tail wag the health care dog."

He said America did just that and the system is a mess.

He said the U.S. spends 34 per cent of its health-care costs on administration, equalling $280 billion "to pay two million people to go to work every day for all the providers and insurers and play tug-of-war."

"It is insane," said Clinton. "It is a colossal waste of money. Don't go down that road. Don't do anything that will lead to increased administrative costs."

By comparison, Canada spends 19 per cent on administration, Clinton said.

He was joined by Israeli Vice-Premier Shimon Peres at a $3,000-a-plate fundraiser at Toronto's tony Windsor Arms hotel. Monies raised will benefit Ontario's Pine River Institute, a teen recovery program, and Israel's Nano Technology Research.

During his speech, the former president spoke eloquently and passionately on a range of topics including interdependence among countries, the threat of a pandemic flu and peace in the Middle East.

But it was Canada's health system that peaked the crowd's interest. Clinton played to the crowd, returning to the health care topic before answering a question about AIDS.

He suggested the government set up a task force to examine whether other counties, including Germany, Norway and Denmark, were successful at integrating some privatization of health services.

"Surely there's somebody that's figured out how to solve this problem that bothers so many Canadians," said Clinton.

"I know there are problems with this system. But you can't imagine what it's like (for us)."

Peres had a more optimistic outlook on privatization - only for a much different application.

"Since we've privatized so many parts of our life, why not privatize peace as well," he said in his speech, suggesting that big business does a better job of thinking on a more integrated, global scale than governments do.

I am vehemently opposed to privatization of our health-care system. That is not the Canada I want. If it takes a former US President to make Canadian politicians and businesspeople listen, then so be it. (Because the voice of the "common man" like mine obviously doesn't mean much to the technocratic/bureaucratic elite, unless I can cough up a small fortune for dinner and a seat at the table.)

But there goes Peres and his ilk, waving the magic wand of big business. As an instrument for peace, no less. Beautiful. It just keeps getting better.

[MOD EDIT: Sorry, this thread was started (sorta) by MM, not Jay...damn merge/split commands...]

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I certainly think that privatising the system you already have is a bad idea, unless the public system stays up to the same high standards...which it probably won't when profit starts to become a factor.

Anyway, since we now have a Random/General News thread, go ahead and use it folks.

The other news threads have been unstickied, but anybody can find them if they want.

Remember though that as soon as this topic reaches 7 pages, I won't be able to split it, so if you want/expect a specific and potentially long-running discussion about a news story, give it it's own thread. Thanks.

--Avatar

[sgt.null]

8yr old boy Held in Deadly School Bus Accident
NYC- An 8yr old boy was in custody after he sneaked onto a school bus and released its parking brake, causing it to roll forward and fatally strike a 2nd grader, police said Tue. Officer Doris Garcia had said the boy was to be charged with criminally negligent homicide. But police later directed followup queries to the city's corporation counsel, which would handle the case if it goes to family court. That office was still examining the issue Tue, said spokeswoman Kate Ahlers. The boy's name was being withheld because of his age. Amber Sadiq, 8, was crossing the street near her school Mon afternoon when she was struck by the bus in the Brooklyn neighborhood of Crown Heights. "She tried to run but the garbage can was in the way," said 12yr old Kassandra Polanco, who saw the bus bearing down on the girl.
Councilwoman Letitia James, who represents parts of Brooklyn, said a "concerned citizen" saw 2 boys — the 8yr old and a 10yr old climbing into the bus through the emergency door, which does not lock.
The woman removed the boys from the bus, and then at some point the bus started rolling down the street, James said. Keith Kalb, a spokesman for the DoE, said the driver, who worked for Jofaz Transport, had finished his rounds and was on his lunch break. Deli worker Sam Ahmad said he saw the girl under the bus and called 911. He said he and about a dozen other men tried to lift the yellow bus to free her but it was too heavy

[Prebe]

So, we lock him up for life sgtnull?

[sgt.null]

was it an accident or malicious? seperate the two kids and break them down. find out the motivation. anyway you punish them try to remember an 8 year old girl is dead.

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Let's assume that it wasn't malicious Sgt. Just for the sake of argument. It was purely an accident, the kids were pranking around, released the parking brake, and a tragic accident occurred?

What is the fate of the boy?

(I was gonna use this for another article, but since we're busy here, I'll make a new thread instead. I must be in a thread-making mood. . Oh...and Sgt...Good to have you back in here. )

--A

[sgt.null]

if just random stupidity? ten years juvenile hall then probation for another 10 or so years. maybe then he will be fit to live in society with no safe guards in place. and yes, i am serious. you still have to be responsible for stupid things you do. and i would investigate his parents for good measure.

dead 8 year old girl trumps boy and his family.

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That's pretty harsh.

Me? I'd say compulsory community service, "volunteering" to assist in a ward/centre/whatever where they rehabilitate the victims of car accidents. Preferably children, but anybody at a pinch. From now until he gets his drivers licence. So what...8 years? That will do more to instill responsibility in him than anything else.

Locking him up is just gonna bring him into contact with drugs, worse offenders, and then escalate his own anti-social behaviour.

--A

[sgt.null]

wow. knock off an 8 year old and get to sweep floors? again i need to know how many deaths qualify one for jail time?

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Provide care and aid for people who have been severely injured by irresponsible vehicle use.

A graphic experience of the consequences of irresponsibility.

All locking him up would do is punish him. Not teach him anything except "Bad? *SMACK*"

At least this is punishment with some sort of purpose.

--A

[Prebe]

Not teach him anything except "Bad? *SMACK*"

Not so. It will also teach him to smoke crack, crack safes and knife use.

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True. Because there will be no shortage of willing teachers.

Do you disagree that he could learn all these things in Juvie Sgt?

And if not, don't you think that it would do both him and society more harm than good in the long-run?

--A

[sgt.null]

so we don't send folks to jail because its a bad place?

[Plissken]

No, we don't send children to places that will likely ensure that they'll turn out even worse than they would if we left them alone.

Given your career, you may've heard words like "correction" and "rehabilitation." They are useful concepts to look into.

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No, we don't send children to places that will likely ensure that they'll turn out even worse than they would if we left them alone.

Exactly.

--A

[Nav]

Inglis success soured by climber's death

Report that dozens of climbers passed stricken British mountaineer on way to the summit shocks first man to reach top. WELLINGTON, New Zealand - Mount Everest pioneer Sir Edmund Hillary said Wednesday he was shocked that dozens of climbers left a British mountaineer to die during their own attempts on the world's tallest peak. David Sharp, 34, died while descending from the summit during a solo climb last week, apparently of oxygen deficiency.
More than 40 climbers are thought to have seen him as he lay dying, and almost all continued to the summit without offering assistance.

"Human life is far more important than just getting to the top of a mountain," Hillary was quoted as saying in an interview with New Zealand Press Association.

New Zealander Mark Inglis, who became the first double amputee to reach the mountain's summit on prosthetic legs, told Television New Zealand that his party stopped during its May 15 summit push and found Sharp close to death.

A member of the party tried to give Sharp oxygen and sent out a radio distress call before continuing to the summit, he said.

Several parties reported seeing Sharp in varying states of health and working on his oxygen equipment on the day of his death.

Inglis said Sharp had no oxygen when he was found. He said there was virtually no hope that Sharp could have been carried to safety from his position about 1,000 feet short of the 29,035-foot summit, inside the low-oxygen "death zone" of the mountain straddling the Nepal-China border.

His own party was able to render only limited assistance and had to put the safety of its own members first, Inglis said Wednesday.

"I walked past David but only because there were far more experienced and effective people than myself to help him," Inglis said. "It was a phenomenally extreme environment; it was an incredibly cold day."

The temperature was minus 100 at 7 a.m. on the summit, he said.

Hillary and Sherpa Tenzing Norgay in 1953 became the first mountaineers to reach Everest's summit. Hillary said in an interview published Wednesday in a New Zealand newspaper that some climbers today did not care about the welfare of others.

"There have been a number of occasions when people have been neglected and left to die, and I don't regard this as a correct philosophy," he told the Otago Daily Times.

"The whole attitude toward climbing Mount Everest has become rather horrifying. The people just want to get to the top," he told the newspaper.

Hillary told New Zealand Press Association he would have abandoned his own pioneering climb to save another's life.

He said that his expedition, "would never for a moment have left one of the members or a group of members just lie there and die while they plugged on towards the summit."

More than 1,500 climbers have reached the summit of Mount Everest in the last 53 years and some 190 have died trying.

My first reaction to hearing this was that it's a lot of people sounding off without having any idea of what the conditions are like up there. From what I gather, it's tough enough just keeping yourself alive up there and that trying to save someone else just isn't an option. I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about three British climbers who made the ascent (one of whom got pneumonia and nearly died) and they saw one dead man left wrapped in his tent at the uppermost camp and another dead on the ropes only a few tens of feet from the summit.

It's a shame that Sir Edmund has criticised Inglis I think, as making the ascent is a remarkable achievement for him.

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I agree. (And a pleasure to see you in the 'Tank Nav. )

I see that it looks like Ingliss is going to lose a couple of fingers too. Poor bugger.

--A

[bossk]

I agree. (And a pleasure to see you in the 'Tank Nav. )

I see that it looks like Ingliss is going to lose a couple of fingers too. Poor bugger.

--A

Screw that - he insisted on going to one of the most inhospitable environments on earth. To expect it to have no consequences is absurd.

[sgt.null]

well if this is the attitude of climbers then i have no respect for any who make it at the cost of another life. we strive to save people, not march past them in blindness.

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Who you talking about Bossk? The climber or the dead guy?

Anyway, it is a terrible thing that some 40 climbers walked past the guy really. Where's the commony humanity? I just think it's wrong that Hilary singled out Inglis for criticism. The guy is a double amputee. He had enough problems hauling himself around.

--A