feudalism in Revelstone

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:33 pm

It seems to me that the Old Lords simply inherited their titles from their father. I mean, all the Old High Lords simply got the High Lordship from their father. Was the end of this practice a reform made by the New Lords?

Post by **Damelon** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 6:19 am

Wasn't Mhoram a son of a High Lord and a Staff Elder before she was a Lord

. There is something to be said for blood lines for the new lords as well.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:34 am

One guess is that Earthpower is strong in Berek's family, just as the Force is strong in Annakin Skywalker's family. Maybe it was a stroke of luck that Berek was the last good guy left for the Earthpower to talk to. If he hadn't had much potential to use Earthpower, it could have told him stuff, helped him make the Staff of Law, and he wouldn't have been able to do anything but a few basic things with it.

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 1:19 pm

Oh yes...Variol was a High Lord and Mhoram's father. Yep, I guess then that ancestry is important...

Post by **Hellfire** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:30 pm

Seemed to me that it had a knights of the round table thing going. You had to prove yourself capable beyond any doubt and having a certain background also made it more possible for you to get your foot in the door. Maybe this is part of the reason why Atiaran couldn't cut it.

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 6:47 pm

Yeah probably. She was lore-wise beyond a doubt..

Post by **Damelon** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:14 pm

In TIW, it was mentioned that Amatin had just finished her tests to become a Lord, but it doesn't mention what kind of tests were taken.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:44 pm

In GILDEN-FIRE, the Bloodguard are talking about what a lousy rider Hyrim is, and that he almost didn't become a Lord because of the Sword tests, or whatever they're called. (Baby's sleeping in the room where the book is right now, so I can't go get it for the exact quote.

) But you have to pass the Sword and the Staff tests to be a Lord. If you fail one or the other, I guess the best you can do is become a soldier or a Lorewarden.

Post by **caamora** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:57 pm

Weren't both Mhoram's parents lords? I don't know if that was said before!

It would seem however, that Mhoram was one of the few, if not the only lord who was "born into it." The books never mention anyone else being son or daughter of a lord, that I can remember. I would think that Earthpower would choose. Kind of like natural selection.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:03 pm

Like shamanism - You don't choose the power, the power chooses you.

Post by **Damelon** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:03 pm

GILDEN-FIRE - The one TC story I don't have.....

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:18 pm

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!
You're breaking my heart!!!

No G-F, no Matrix.
Say no more - with one word you will make me weep.

Post by **[Syl]** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:25 pm

^5 Fist

or an old zen quote, "When the student is ready the teacher appears."

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:41 pm

Believe it or not, I'd be more than pleased to type out the whole thing and post it here. But I'm not sure what SRD would think about that. Not a good trend to set. The music industry is going through a somewhat similar upheaval at the moment.

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:59 pm

Mhoram's father was a High Lord, his mother a lord...

Post by **Han-shan** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 12:47 am

Hey F&F, for a Haruchai, you sure have a lot to say about power!

Post by **Nav** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:40 pm

I suspect that Lordship has nothing directly to do with hereditary. I'd guess that the best Lore students were invited to take the tests, and those that passed were eligible to become Lords. Being the son of two Lords would probably have given Mhoram a natural ability which helped him a great deal, but I somehow doubt he became a Lord by birthright.

Also, look at Elena. Neither Lena nor Covenant knew any deal of lore, white gold aside.

Post by **variol son** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:12 am

it seems that all the lords had a special something, sometimes quite hidden, that sort of helped them become lords. like the private visions that lead many students 2 take the rites of unfettering, but it didnt have 2 b pursued in private. 4 example, elena had her little otherness sight thingee, hyrim had that strength that came out when he fought kinslaughterer and saved the burning tree in grimmerdhore, trevor when he held the gates of revelstone, amatin when she parted the dead in the courtyard of revelstone, even prothals refusal 2 offer himself 2 the ranyhyn and variol and tamaranthas sacrifice 2 draw the strenth of the attackers @ soaring woodhelven. Therefore, even tho amatin was physically weak and hyrim almost failed the sword tests (and his staff kinked when he first took hold of it) and trevor didnt believe in himself, they still managed 2 pass the tests coz they all a special something to bring to the council. so maybe it was some sort of earthpower selection thingee.

sum sui generis

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:12 pm

Well said!

Post by **Tenara** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:14 am

I think there may have been a change in thinking between the Old Lords and the New. We don't know (at least I don't recall reading) anything about how the Old Lords were selected. It could be as simple as the position of High Lord being handed from father to son, but I don't think that's very likely. More likely that those exposed to the environment of the Lords as children were the most likely to have an aptitude for "Lord-ship" as adults.

The big difference I did notice is a comparable reluctance among the New Lords to have children. I know there are examples of couples having children - Variol and Tamarantha, Trevor and Loerya. But neither Prothall nor Osondrea, both High Lords, had children. (To my knowledge - correct me if I'm wrong.) So there was no opportunity for a son/daughter to inherit the position from a parent. However, Mhoram does show the same tendency as in the time of the Old Lords by becoming High Lord, albeit not directly after his father.

I'm not sure what all this means really. Probably that there is something innate that makes some members of the same family suitable for Lordship. And also that growing up around Lords makes it more natural, and probably easier, for children to move into that role as adults.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

feudalism in Revelstone

feudalism in Revelstone