Pantheon 2.0 - Adomorn's Vote

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Benito Alvarez
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Pantheon 2.0 - Adomorn's Vote

Post by Benito Alvarez »

Hedra Iren, I feel your pain. Your sorrow. Your anger.

You lived in a time when few of us did, and survived. You have seen what Divine War can do. You know the horror of innocents being slaughtered while battle raged above and infront of them. Of screams and rain the color of blood. Monsters running into battle, and watching as the peoples try to fight back, and die. Walking on their comrades dead backs to fight and fall still.

I ask you, what is the alternative? For all the people to live under Nor and (I assume) Argothoths iron reign? For all these people to live as half mutants half undead? To watch as children are born under a blackened sky?

My fellow Pantheon members, we have come to a fork in the road. To both sides lie War. On one fork we have a few years before Nor and Argothoth are strong enough to ignore the penalties of breaking the Law. In the years before the inevitable attack we MAY be strong enough to survive, but are we all willing to gamble the world itself on such a course?

Then there is the other fork. One where we play it out now, for good or ill. However, down this fork my hands are tied. Under the Law as it stand I cannot start the agression. Should I attack my power would be hopelessly cut down, even IF I had the support of the Pantheon.

I have only one recourse. When Hedra Iren first came into power, we forsaw this EXACT problem. And we made a rule to solve it. We can change the Law, and rewrite it as the Pantheon sees fit. The Allfather decrees that a two thirds majority is enough to force Hedra Iren, under her own Law, to rewrite her book.



I will have this Pantheon come to order, and take the floor. As a member of this circle, I propose a vote to change the Law on when a war can be started.
"When a diety has made actions that change the world as a whole, or has visibly backed up claims to attack the world (representative by a simple majority of the Pantheon's lands) with either: 1) a direct use of DRP or 2) the forming of a military with size enough to carry out said actions, then it will be the option of each individual member of the Pantheon to declare War on said aggressive diety. This option will also extend to any allies of said agressive diety that is openly supporting said deities actions, either in DRP or military forces or in statements supporting the matter."
I am open to making edit's on this Law, but I think it is fine as it stands. Notice it says nothing of who the God is. It is as applicable to me as it is to anyone. It simply hold's the worlds intrests in mind.
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Benito Alvarez
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Post by Benito Alvarez »

Take your time to think and discuss this matter. This is not something to be voted on lightly.
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Post by I'm Murrin »

Who would arbitrate the point at which a god is said to have 'backed up their claims'? Who is to say that a threat of force and the raising of troops must always be of direct relation--if a god who has threatened comes under threat theirself, might they not raise that force only so as not to be destroyed by another?
I am unsure if we can know now whether this law you suggest will always prove Just when enacted.
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Post by Simjen »

I can vote for neither option as worded and abstain.
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Post by Injerian Praetus II »

I voted 'nay', for it appears that Lord Adamorn has a poor grasp of law and justice. I believe he is merely attempting to twist law for his own sake. Do we honestly believe he is that stupid to propose a law that will limit himself?
"Oh of course," the Navigator said with faint mocking in his voice, "you have probably heard of House Praetus. We have a palace on Holy Terra. Like all powerful groups, we also have our enemies. Do you honestly think someone like you matters?" - A dissolute noble.
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Post by Benito Alvarez »

Murrin wrote:Who would arbitrate the point at which a god is said to have 'backed up their claims'? Who is to say that a threat of force and the raising of troops must always be of direct relation--if a god who has threatened comes under threat theirself, might they not raise that force only so as not to be destroyed by another?
I am unsure if we can know now whether this law you suggest will always prove Just when enacted.
I am of the mind that no matter the reason, at the core the raising of troops is, of itself, a threat of force.

Is what you are asking, how are we to know if the threat is benevolent or malevolent? I think that telling the difference between them is based around a few aspects: 1)Who is dealing the threats to who. 2)Past actions. 3)Size of the miltary. For instance a 10,000 man army is NOT nessecary to stop thieves. A much smaller number would serve just as well.

I think that these aspects can really only be determined by the Pantheon as a whole? I feel that even IF Hedra Iren and I were of a like mind, I doubt that the Pantheon would accept our judgement alone.

Thoughts?
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Post by Benito Alvarez »

Simjen wrote:I can vote for neither option as worded and abstain.
What wording needs to be changed to satisfy you, Simjen? This is not set in concrete, nor will it ever be.
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Post by Benito Alvarez »

Nor Yekith wrote:I voted 'nay', for it appears that Lord Adamorn has a poor grasp of law and justice. I believe he is merely attempting to twist law for his own sake. Do we honestly believe he is that stupid to propose a law that will limit himself?
I am acting with Honorable intent, Nor. The only way these Laws are effective is if all agree to them, however given our....different, views the Allfather has lowered the total to a 2/3's majority.

I will be just as effected by these Laws as anyone.
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Post by Bhakti »

None of this matters. The choice is:
a) Act against Yek, and suffer Hedra's consequences.

or

b) Wait for Yek to fulfill his promise.

Which will likely harm us more?
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Post by Benito Alvarez »

Bhakti wrote:None of this matters. The choice is:
a) Act against Yek, and suffer Hedra's consequences.

or

b) Wait for Yek to fulfill his promise.

Which will likely harm us more?
You are partially correct. A fight with Nor is basically inevitable. But there are three choices, then.

1)Fight with Nor, AGAINST the Law
2)Fight With Nor, WITH the Law
3)Do nothing.

I am trying to change the Law so that RIGHT NOW we are not defenseless, and IN THE FUTURE we are likewise not defenseless. I doubt we will be able to fight BOTH Nor and Argothoth at one time. I will NOT fight this long with words AGAIN.
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Post by Injerian Praetus II »

There is another option, but Bhakti appears to think it too trivial to face.
"Oh of course," the Navigator said with faint mocking in his voice, "you have probably heard of House Praetus. We have a palace on Holy Terra. Like all powerful groups, we also have our enemies. Do you honestly think someone like you matters?" - A dissolute noble.
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Post by Bhakti »

Sacrifice myself?
I am the self-fulfilling prophecy. Give love, and you WILL receive love. Let your every answer, your every action and reaction, your every desire, be rooted in love.
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Post by Benito Alvarez »

Nor Yekith wrote:There is another option, but Bhakti appears to think it too trivial to face.
I am sure I am not alone when I say that I SERIOUSLY doubt that you would simply "dissappear" if Bhakti sacrificed himself.

Furthermore, I doubt you would never come back. I can just picture this all hapening over again in the Third Age.
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Post by O-gon-cho »

Lord Adomorn wrote:
Nor Yekith wrote:There is another option, but Bhakti appears to think it too trivial to face.
I am sure I am not alone when I say that I SERIOUSLY doubt that you would simply "dissappear" if Bhakti sacrificed himself.
I will support this statement, anyway. I have the same doubts.
Lord Adomorn wrote:Furthermore, I doubt you would never come back. I can just picture this all hapening over again in the Third Age.
This statement I can not. I trust Nor Yekith's player's promise to me regarding this too much...
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Post by Benito Alvarez »

O-gon-cho wrote: This statement I can not. I trust Nor Yekith's player's promise to me regarding this too much...
I'll take that as OOC, but I can't have my character act on information given in OOC, and even IF Nor's gave it to me IC, I STILL doubt that Adomorn would really believe him.
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Post by Injerian Praetus II »

Lord Adomorn wrote:Furthermore, I doubt you would never come back. I can just picture this all hapening over again in the Third Age.
But if I am facing imminent destruction, I could retreat. However, I would be more inclined to pour my malice into the one who waits. You might not agree with the mix of malice and mutation, but I assure you, malice and madness is far worse.

I do not think the world has forgotten Nephirthos.
"Oh of course," the Navigator said with faint mocking in his voice, "you have probably heard of House Praetus. We have a palace on Holy Terra. Like all powerful groups, we also have our enemies. Do you honestly think someone like you matters?" - A dissolute noble.
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Post by Bhakti »

In any event, I do not consider the third option of sacrificing myself to you "too trivial." So I'm stuck with the two.
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Post by Benito Alvarez »

Nor Yekith wrote: But if I am facing imminent destruction, I could retreat. However, I would be more inclined to pour my malice into the one who waits. You might not agree with the mix of malice and mutation, but I assure you, malice and madness is far worse.

I do not think the world has forgotten Nephirthos.
You MUST realise that this is only strengthening my case against you Nor. Although I think that you still feel invincible. That no matter what threats you make towards us don't apply.

Dont get TOO comfortable.
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Post by Injerian Praetus II »

Lord Adomorn wrote:
You MUST realise that this is only strengthening my case against you Nor. Although I think that you still feel invincible. That no matter what threats you make towards us don't apply.
As opposed to your threats? I have not threatened anyone with my army, yet you and several others have been warned by the Goddess of Law for your 'heavy handedness'.
"Oh of course," the Navigator said with faint mocking in his voice, "you have probably heard of House Praetus. We have a palace on Holy Terra. Like all powerful groups, we also have our enemies. Do you honestly think someone like you matters?" - A dissolute noble.
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Post by Benito Alvarez »

Nor Yekith wrote:As opposed to your threats? I have not threatened anyone with my army, yet you and several others have been warned by the Goddess of Law for your 'heavy handedness'.
It amazes me that no matter how many times I speak of scale and intent, there a precious few who actually listen. Who has poured mutagens DIRECTALLY into the water? Who has spoken, at length and numerous times, of our destruction and the changing of the world? Who has amassed, with his ally, an army of unbelievable size?

Not I, Nor, Not I.
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