Deathly Hallows Discussion: Spoilers!!!

[I'm Murrin]

This is book is going to be a problem for the filmmakers, I think--

Spoiler

The main characters spend most of the important scenes polyjuiced or transfigured. The ministry bit, Malfoy Manor, Gringotts... They'll either have to cheat (like having the film show the real chars even when they're supposedly disguised) or have entire chunks of DH where they'll have to use other actors to play Harry & co.
On the brightside, more Helena Bonham Carter.

[dlbpharmd]

I seriously hope the film makers decide to make DH at least 3 hours long so all of the good scenes can be included.

[Cagliostro]

Okay, finally finished last night. I'm still mulling it over.

Spoiler

Great Frith, that was a depressing book. From all the deaths to the overall tone. It seemed like every time they did anything, they were attacked. I just wanted one thing to go well. I thought Godrick's Hollow would be the one, but no... Always so nervous whenever they decided to do anything.
So much of it felt like how The Pianist felt to me. Constantly hiding, hoping to not get caught and carted off. I thought I was reading the book equivalent of a WW2 refugee movie. So much of the former joy was drained from this book. Sure, there were moments, but whew...
I couldn't believe they didn't go back to the school. I thought for sure they would be attending classes, and thought it might be all the happier with Snape gone. A bit odd that Hermione wasn't plagued by the desire to finish her education, but I understand. After all, she had probably already read all the books that she would have had to read for year 7 anyway, and she was certainly getting practical education and application.
I feel a little bad about what happened to Snape in the end. I thought he'd have more of an active role to play in Voldy's downfall, but I guess I was wrong. Oh well.
And yeah...you just don't get characters like Neville in a story unless they are going to play a big role. And good on him.
I just couldn't believe the huge death count.
I still wonder what happened with Slughorn (if I have the name right). Nice to see Malfoy come around...rather late, mind you, but still. I figured after the scene with Dumbledore, his heart would be out of this, and he wouldn't continue on. I figured he'd make a valuable ally. But not really. Lots of expectations blown, but that's what made it all the more interesting.
And yeah, I think the most chilling scene was when Kingley gave the message about the Ministry. That was when I realized that Harry was almost certainly not returning to school, like in the other books. Pure insanity. It definitely doesn't come of as a kids book series in the end. Completely vicious.
And yeah...the 19 years later just didn't really serve much purpose, did it?
I wish I had bet money on Snape being good, and him being in love with Lily. I guess I'll know better next time.

One last thing: how are they ever going to do the movie of this book any justice? So many threads dropped from the movie versions that they are really going to have to do a serious juggling act.

Spoiler

Especially with dropping the "Elf Rights" side of Hermione thus making it more difficult for the lovely kiss scene. Which I must say was quite a joy, as predictable as it was.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I just finished it.
Wow, absolutely fantastic!

Sleeplessone, I was thinking the same thing.
I was more than halfway through and was shaking my head thinking that there was no way Rowlings could wrap all this up in time.
She did.
She did so well in fact that I couldn't put the book down for 3 hours last night!
It was 2:30 AM and my eyes were fricking bleeding I was so tired!

Spoiler

First, I really didn't expect Snape to die so to anyone who is/was angered by my "Snape's is Dead" post please forgive me.
I wouldn't mind if the whole thing was deleted actually.
BUT!
Notice that I carefully typed "Snape's" not Snape.
So I never actually said that Snape himself died but just something that Snapes owned, like a cat or something.


Now, everyone is touched by different things in a story.
Apparently I'm a romantic at heart because Snape's pensive just totally choked me up.
His unending love for Lilly.....their friendship....wow.
To get such an emotion from me about a despicable character...that's well written stuff.
I was also pleased that Harry honored him with his son's name.
I was thinking before I finished the book that Harry would have had him buried next to his parents but the name honor is much better than that.

The Harry and Ginny relationship could have been developed a little more I think. More angst maybe? Still fine though.

Romeo, funny funny Foamfollower comparison!

The Dolores Umbridge thing didn't bother me.
I never focused much on her apparently.
I was looking for more of that blond Death Eater though from the end of the last book.
He seemed like he was going to be an important powerful character but he just got a mere mention at the final battle I think.

I was actually happy that Dobby died.
I couldn't stand him.
Every time I read about him I pictured a little annoying Jar Jar Binks.

**Hermione**
What an awesome character!
I fell in love with her in this book.
She never left Harry's side.

Ron was just ok as usual.
His leaving and coming back was a little weak but I can see how it helped the story along getting some outside info.

Luna
Not a big fan before but she's a great character in this book (which is weird because she has such a minor part)

The only thing that set off my "hey that's kinda dumb" alarm in this book was Ron's Mom coming out of nowhere and took down that Bela woman at the end (no idea on spelling of her name sorry, the really bad chick).

Other than those few little things this book really wrapped up everything I think.
Well done Ms. Rowlings!

[Cameraman Jenn]

Spoiler

I agree Cagliobro. It was depressing but I still loved it. And I appreciated the moments of humor all the more for the darkness. I'm still hung up on my frustration listed above about Umbridge.

[High Lord Tolkien]

Spoiler

I agree Cagliobro. It was depressing but I still loved it. And I appreciated the moments of humor all the more for the darkness. I'm still hung up on my frustration listed above about Umbridge.

That's because you're a hateful vindictive woman!

God, I love you!

[Cameraman Jenn]

[Seafoam Understone]

I think with the way technology is going with CGI and all of that they'll be able to pull off DH without breaking a sweat.

Spoiler

Sure Radcliff will have to play his character several different times but we've seen him as talented and he'll probably welcome the challenge.

It's the direction and production that has to be the important part of making the last two films work.

[Menolly]

*slowly making headway*

I'm up to page 277 of my initial read-through...

[stormrider]

Spoiler

I was also pleased that Harry honored him with his son's name.
I was thinking before I finished the book that Harry would have had him buried next to his parents but the name honor is much better than that.

Spoiler

Actually, that would have been really cool, though, if they'd buried Snape beside Lily.

The Umbridge thing didn't even occur to me until someone mentioned it -- it just got lost in all the action, but now it's bothering the hell out of me. And I would still like to know what Harry's parents did for a living; I don't know why I thought we'd find out in the 7th one. And she never mentioned what Harry's and Hermione's and Ron's and Ginny's jobs were. Neville was the only one we found out about. Not that it was important, but I'm just wondering. I keep thinking maybe Harry abandoned his aspirations to become an auror. He'd certainly spent enough time fighting dark wizards -- I'd have been burnt out by that point. I think he said something along the lines of, "I've had enough trouble for a lifetime."

And I seriously don't understand why Tonks had to die. That kind of sucked. I can see the appeal of killing Lupin, because he was able to walk with Sirius, James, and Lily alongside Harry to meet Voldemort. But Tonks? What was the point of that? And I wish Harry had killed Bellatrix. I hated her because I really liked Sirius. Maybe JKR didn't want Harry to actually kill anyone, though. Would have been even better for Neville to kill her. Did Molly Weasley use Avada Kedavra on her? That seems so weird. Where was Bellatrix's husband, by the way? Have I forgotten something? Didn't she and her husband go to Azkaban together? I don't remember him being mentioned.

I was sure JKR would kill at least one Weasley, but of all the available kids to choose from, she killed off Fred. I liked the twins. Why couldn't she have killed Percy? That would have been more more poignant (and less depressing) to me, anyway -- him getting killed right after coming back and reuniting with the family. I also would have liked a chapter that showed some funerals, or something, but I guess the book had already been depressing enough. *shrugs*

I also enjoyed Harry using the Imperius Curse and the Cruciatus Curse and doing it right this time. McGonagall using an the Imperius Curse on someone was great, too. It emphasized the severity of the situation -- you know things are bad if the teachers are using Unforgivable Curses.

Overall, the book was fabulous. Can't wait to get to the beach so I can read it again. Then, at the first available opportunity, I'm going to go back and reread the entire series. I think it will be interesting to see how all the things I know now will influence my perception of various events and characters.

And I'd like to take this moment to reiterate the vast extent of my sadness over the whole Snape thing -- like, all of it. He was seriously one of my favorite literary characters ever (which is really saying something, considering how much I read). So I am still upset. Very.

[dlbpharmd]

Man, I'm really getting tired of all of the spoiler tags.

[Menolly]

Man, I'm really getting tired of all of the spoiler tags.

Sorry, charlie. I'm not even halfway done yet...

[stormrider]

Man, I'm really getting tired of all of the spoiler tags.

I must have something set up on my preferences where it doesn't even show the spoiler tags. When I log out, I can see that all the text is blacked out, but when I'm logged in, everything looks totally normal -- the text is just there, like it always is.

[Phantasm]

Spoiler

The bit where they get the warning of the ministry falling, and "They are coming", put me in mind of when the Fellowship of the ring was in Moria, reading the diary of the last days of the Dwarves there, where they were reading about "Drums in the dark, they are coming" - talking about the orcs etc coming to finish them off.

Chilling in both books.

I also thought it was a great ending to the series, but I would have liked more loose ends tied up.

[Menolly]

Over on the Hangar, Furls Fire says JKR was on the Today show and told Meredith Viera (or whatever her name is) that she is planning on putting out a Harry Potter Encyclopedia in a few years which will include pre- and post- series vignettes. Some of them will include information on occupation, marriage, families, etc.

If someone has a better connection than my dial-up, you might want to search the Today show's site, and see if you can find such an interview. If you do, post it in the Interviews thread please.

BTW, half way done with my initial read through! I'm savoring it as I go along, hehehe.

[Alynna Lis Eachann]

Finally had time to finish reading the book, and while on the whole it was very good, there were a few parts that seemed like plot conveniences:

Spoiler

Kreacher's reappearance, Lupin and Tonks' deaths, Hedwig's death. Lupin's death did make the foursome on Harry's "Death march" complete (which really smacks of plot convenience), but why did Tonks have to die?

I am bothered by the whole Lupin-Tonks-Teddy Lupin thing. Why kill Tonks when Teddy's not gonna stay with Harry the way Harry was supposed to have stayed with Sirius? Who raised Teddy? Why, when little Lily said "Then he'd really be family," didn't Harry correct her and say that Teddy already was "real" family? I'm ever so glad to know that in Rowling's mind, any biological family gets more weight than the people who stick with you through thick and thin even when their blood doesn't demand it. Teddy must feel very special knowing he's not "really" part of Harry's family.

I can understand that Lily, being young, wouldn't know how that comment sounded, but it bothers me that Harry, having found his first family among people who were not blood relatives, did not correct her. From what little Rowling wrote, I gather Teddy's been in the picture but not ever quite in the sense that would have meant to him what Sirius' love meant to Harry. That part of the Epilogue scene just dropped me out of the fantasy altogether. It was like hitting a brick wall after an otherwise amazing book.

I was totally right about Snape being Dumbledore's man, and his chapter was one of my favorites. (The most beautiful passage in the book, IMO, is the description of Lily soaring off the swing.) In Snape's memories, we finally see them man he really was, the man so many fans hoped he would turn out to be. While I'm glad to see Snape redeemed, I am sorely dissappointed that none of Slytherin House joined the battle against Voldemort. If even one nameless student had stayed, it would have been more realistic to me. Even self-interested, clever people step out of character occasionally. That it happened in this book only with the adult Slytherins (the Malfoys and Snape) is a bit of a let-down.

[Menolly]

Say WHAT??? Noooo...

Spoiler

DOBBY!!!!!!!

About two-thirds through...I still have not read any of the spoilers posted...

[dlbpharmd]

Spoiler

I was totally right about Snape being Dumbledore's man, and his chapter was one of my favorites. (The most beautiful passage in the book, IMO, is the description of Lily soaring off the swing.) In Snape's memories, we finally see them man he really was, the man so many fans hoped he would turn out to be. While I'm glad to see Snape redeemed, I am sorely dissappointed that none of Slytherin House joined the battle against Voldemort. If even one nameless student had stayed, it would have been more realistic to me. Even self-interested, clever people step out of character occasionally. That it happened in this book only with the adult Slytherins (the Malfoys and Snape) is a bit of a let-down.

Spoiler

Did the Malfoys fight against Voldemort? I must've missed that. I do recall the head of Slytherin (what's his name?) fought against Voldy though.

*edited by moderator* Ack!!!

[Menolly]

Ack!!

*shielding eyes*

I started reading that! dlb, I have to spoiler the quote!! I am sorry to edit your post!

[Menolly]

OK...

If you are going to spoiler a quote, hit quote first, then spoiler.

Thanks...