Fatal Revenant: Part 1, Ch 6, Interference

[Zarathustra]

This is a great moment in the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. The foreplay of the first five chapters is over. He’s not leading up to something with teasing, hinting, developing prose. We’re here. We’ve arrived at our destination. This movement back to the past has got to be one of those key structural features that Donaldson has known about for a long, long time. One of the Big Events he’s carried around in his head, perhaps even before he began Runes, back when he was daunted by the prospect of writing the Last Chronicles. And maybe it was precisely these sorts of narrative directions that made him nervous about beginning that task. Going back into the Land’s past has got to be at least as tricky for the author as it is for the characters. His dilemma is similar. Just as the characters can disturb the arch of time, so can the author erode the integrity, legitimacy, and internal consistency of his own work. This is a dangerous moment for us all. As fans of his work, we stand on the brink of potential ruin just as Linden herself.

And right from the beginning, Donaldson seems to be acknowledging the magnitude of what he’s doing in the prose:

“The shock was too great. Linden was too human: no aspect of her body or her mind had been formed to accommodate such a sudden and absolute transition.”

And SRD wants to make it clear that this isn’t like being translated to the Land, or traveling back in time via a caesure. This, as he says, was utterly different. That in itself is strange. One would think that being translated out of her “real” world into this “fantasy” world would be, in metaphysical terms, orders of magnitude greater than merely moving about within that fantasy world, even back and forth through its time. But this is worse.

It’s interesting that Donaldson chooses to explain this transformation in physiological terms. His language here is different than anywhere else in the Chronicles. It’s downright clinical.

“. . . her optic nerves could not accept the change,” “Every neuron in her body except those that acknowledged the Staff refused to recognize where and who she was.” “An autonomic reflex shut her eyes against the concussive dazzling that seemed to fill the whole inside of her head like the clamor of great incandescent bells.”

Wow, now that’s a sentence worthy of admiration! I bet that one makes him smile with well-earned pride.

“She might damage her retinas.”

I also love: “With her eyes closed and her entire sensorium stunned . . .” Sensorium. That’s a word going into my personal word-toolkit. I’m definitely going to find a way to work it into my own writing.

I’d like to note the hints Donaldson gives us concerning Covenant. I'm going to try not to spoil things, but if you're not a little curious about Covenant at this point, you're simply not paying attention.

Theomach: “And do you not fear that I will reveal you?”

Theomach: “But she does not know us,” said the stranger chuckling. “Would you prefer that I speak on your behalf?”

That last hint is so obvious, I can’t believe I had any skepticism left at this point during my first read.

Spoiler

I really wanted this to be Covenant. I was blinding myself, just like Linden was allowing love to cast a "glamor."

Covenant: “You people might as well be that ‘darkness’ they keep talking about, that shadow on their hearts.”

Interesting.

Theomach: Also, I do not desire the destruction of the Earth. The peril of your chosen path I deemed too great.”

This sets up some interesting questions. Months ago, Romeo proposed that Covenant never intended to do what he later reveals

Spoiler

[use the Earthblood to destroy the earth]

. But the Theomach actually takes that possibility seriously enough to divert Covenant. So what was his original path? Why was it more dangerous than the one he goes on now? What does the Theomach actually accomplish in terms of lessening the risk of Covenant’s intentions?

Spoiler

As far as I remember—nothing. But it also shows that Romeo’s hunch was wrong; Covenant’s intentions, revealed to Linden in a later chapter—were indeed sincere. Otherwise Theo wouldn't have diverted him.

Theomach says something of great import

Spoiler

to the end of this book:

Theomach: If ever she obtains that which will enable her to bear her strengths, your chagrin will provide my people with vast amusement.”

Spoiler

Sounds like he’s talking about the krill, does it not? It helps her to wield both the Staff and ring together. I don’t think there can be any doubt about his reference. In the same paragraph, he says: “When such powers are joined in the hands of one who is constrained by mortality, unable to wield both together?” So, something about Linden acquiring the krill is very dangerous to Roger. Therefore, we can safely conclude that it was never Roger’s intention to push her in a direction where she’d get the krill and have the power to wield Staff and ring together—as some have speculated. If this was Lord Foul’s plan, or Kastenessen’s, or Roger’s, there would be no need for “chagrin.” No, they’d be happy about it. I think this clears up some of the conspiracy theorizing. Linden getting the krill is definitely a good thing, and not a manipulation of her enemies.

Covenant: “If that ever happens—which is won’t—your people will be frantically trying to stop her, just like everybody else. Only in their case, it’ll be sheer greed. They’ll want all that power for themselves.”

Spoiler

And of course, that’s what happens. The Harrow tries to get Linden’s power, and everyone (except her friends) try to stop her from getting the krill. But clearly, Roger isn’t counting on her getting it.

Regarding the Staff of Law this has got to be important:

Theomach: “Sadly, it is incomplete. Your need is great. You will require puissance. I return this implement of law to you with my thanks for the knowledge of it touch.”

The knowledge of its touch?

Spoiler

Did this in any way help shape the future? We all know what the Theomach does later. Did this encounter help to make that happen? Give him knowledge he didn’t already have? It’s obvious he had to have some knowledge in this area, because he knows enough to recognize the Staff's incomplete status (which I don’t even think Linden recognized).

I really like how Linden forces Covenant to take her into account. He tries to ignore her, and it’s clear that her only use to him is as Elohim insurance. But she tosses her Staff at him, and then reminds him that she has the power to stop him from achieving his goal—even if that means she can’t get back to her own time without him. I believe her when she shouts, “I don’t care! Without Jeremiah, nothing that you do means anything to me!” She’s not bluffing.

I also like how both men have issues with being introduced. They both have reasons to mislead her, and those reasons are plausible, not mere writer’s tricks to fake out us, the audience. This was well thought out. Masterful writing. They both had something to gain by mystifying her.

There is one curious thing about the danger of Linden knowing the details of the Theomach’s identity--possibly the most important detail of this chapter. Theo explains this danger to Covenant—who, as a being melded with the Arch of Time, really should know this already.

Theomach: “Because she is here. In this circumstance, her mind cannot be distinguished from the Arch of Time.”

Now that’s a puzzle. I could have accepted if Donaldson had merely said, “her knowledge must follow linearly from her experiences, rather than artificially augmented by a perspective that transcends her own temporal flow.” But that’s not what he said. He said that her mind can’t be distinguished from the Arch, as if her consciousness itself was the Arch itself. I know I’m probably reading that description too literally. But the language Donaldson uses invites such a literal reading.

Then the Theomach goes on to ask: “Do you dare to acknowledge that you do not comprehend this?” See, Covenant should know it. That’s why, a few paragraphs earlier, Linden wonders:

He was part of the Arch of Time. And he had suggested that he knew—or could know—everything that had ever happened. Could he see the future as well? Or was his vision constrained by the present in which he had reified himself?

Donaldson is offering this to us as an explanation for Covenant’s ignorance,

Spoiler

to preserve the illusion that it’s still plausible that he is who he claims to be.

The Theomach's explanation continues. I think it’s worth examining in detail.

She has experienced the distant outcome of events which transpire in this present. If she is given knowledge which she cannot possess by right of that experience—knowledge which may alter her understanding of her own past—a paradox akin to the paradox of wild magic will ensue. Her every deed will have the power of wild magic to undo Time.

The first sentence is talking about her experiences

Spoiler

at the end of The One Tree.

That’s the distant outcome of current events. The next sentence is where I get confused. “Given knowledge which she cannot possess by right of that experience.” “Given knowledge” would be, obviously, Covenant telling her. But how does “that experience” give or limit her right to knowledge?

Spoiler

Once she gets back, Stave simply tells her the truth about the Theomach (if I remember correctly). She does absolutely nothing to earn it. If all it takes to “earn” this knowledge is wait around for someone to tell her, what difference does it make * when * she is told this information? What if Stave had told her this info before she went back to this past with Covenant? Since she would have been in her proper time, it could have been no more dangerous than when he did actually tell her. So she would have “earned” the knowledge (apparently, since that's all it takes), and then gone back to meet the Theomach with that knowledge. How could it possibly have been a problem? Yet, how would it have been different from Roger telling her now?

Also, she knew who Berek was. This didn’t harm anything. Is it simply the fact of learning something that would alter her understanding of her own past? Why is altering her understanding of her past not dangerous when Stave tells her in the proper time?

And would it *really* alter her understanding of her own past to realize that this guy she's talking to is someone she has already met? How would it change that in any way? If it's not a paradox to talk to someone you've already met, surely it can't be a paradox to know who they are when you talk to them.

One final point--Roger knows who the Theomach is. How did he learn it? Why doesn't his knowledge make a paradox?

I don’t think this makes sense at all. Which is probably why Donaldson included the “can’t be distinguished from the Arch,” bit.

Theomach: Yet, if she acts freely, without incondign comprehension or suasion, her deeds will do no harm. That I will ensure.

So which is it? The Theomach ensuring that no harm will come? Or the fact that she will do no harm? If the Theomach can correct her ripples, what does it matter what she does? How could her knowing who he is allow her to do something he couldn’t correct?

Theomach: Therefore you must permit her to command—aye, and to make demands—as she chooses.

What if she commanded to know who the Theomach was?

Theomach: I have said that I do not desire the destruction of the Earth. If you are wise—if wisdom is possible for one such as you—you also will not desire it.”

Why wouldn’t wisdom be possible for one such as him? Are we merely talking about what an asshole he is? Or is there another implication?

Covenant replies that of course he doesn’t want the destruction of the earth. And the Theomach doesn’t raise an objection. Yet, the Theomach clearly has doubts about this very issue, because he thought Covenant was dangerous enough to divert his path for this reason. Again, I ask, what was so dangerous about his original path and why is this one less so? The answer may lie here: the stranger, the Theomach, had challenged Covenant to introduce him as a kind of test. Perhaps his entire purpose in diverting Covenant and Linden to this time was simply show Linden that Covenant didn’t know everything like he claimed. Specifically, he didn’t know something about time and being who he claims to be, he should. And perhaps this one thing is the change in Covenant’s plans the Theomach wished to produce all along: doubt in Linden’s mind.

Theomach: If you will but consider the path which I have opened to you, you will recognize that you have no cause for anger. True, I have presented new obstacles. But others I have removed. And my path is indeed less perilous.

What obstacles has the Theomach removed? I don’t remember this ever beign addressed. Also, less perilous for whom?

Spoiler

If Covenant actually wants to destroy the world with the Earthblood, then he wouldn’t like the Theomach lessening this peril. In fact, he would resent it.

. Theomach claims, I do not speak of her peril, Halfhand. I speak of yours.” So he really does expect Covenant to think some peril to him has been reduced. What’s he talking about? Covenant certainly doesn’t take that claim seriously. He calls it “fake concern.”

Covenant threatens with, ”What I have in mind for you is going to be worse than the destruction of the Earth. I’m going to make you and all your people and even the damn Elohim irrelevant.”Can any of you make sense of this one? It does seem to contradict

Spoiler

what happens at the Earthblood. How is trying to destroy the earth a lot worse than . . . destroying the earth? I can see how that would make them all irrelevant. But he seems to be talking about something else.

When Jeremiah finally appears, the Theomach stops her from using power or touching him. He warns that her losses will be greater than she is able to conceive, if she errs in this. I don’t get that, either. How would that be any different from

Spoiler

using the Staff and learning their identity in Skyweir? Doesn’t she lose exactly the same thing then? She is left in the past, and learns the truth about her son. How could it be any worse to learn that now?

Jeremiah says, ”It’s a good thing those ur-viles attacked when they did. I didn’t want to have to call for help.” I think we all know now who he would have called.

Spoiler

Kastenessen

Any other possibilities?

Well, this is getting long. I’ll leave some for the rest of you. I’m stopping on page 130, if anyone else wants to pick it up from there. There’s one final point that really fascinates me. Linden’s thinks she may have enabled something bad to happen to Jeremiah by giving him the racetrack. She freed him, or gave him the means to free himself.

. . . she had supplied her son with an alternative to ordinary consciousness, ordinary responses and emotions; ordinary life. She had made it easier for him to escape than to strive for a more difficult and precious form of recovery. It was conceivable that Linden had failed her son as entirely—and as unintentionally—as she had failed Joan.

Going to the Land was an escape, a running away. Rather than being a means of healing, like it was for Covenant and Linden,

Spoiler

Jeremiah and Joan were ensnared by forces more powerful than them. I wonder if the difference was their state of mind before going in, because they were given the means of escape, but were rather ensnared.

It also makes me wonder about the damn racecar . . . if the tracks were the means of constructing an “exit,” and the car is what travels on the tracks, then perhaps it’s a symbol of Jeremiah himself?

Spoiler

The remnant of his consciousness that remains from of the croyal’s control?

[danlo]

I'll be back to check this out in detail, but knowing this chapter so well (from SRD's prerelease read) just one glance confirms you did an excellent job. Thank you.!

[SoulBiter]

“Every neuron in her body except those that acknowledged the Staff refused to recognize where and who she was.”

What part of her body is not acknowledged by the staff? Is this worded this way on purpose? Why does the staff not acknowledge all of her?

[lurch]

Yes..lots of conflicting...Start with the name Theomach..God and War in one label...Do Not forget SRD was a conscientious objector to the Vietnam War. Okay?...So the name Theomach,,strikes me as oxymoron..a conflict that seems to be accepted,,as okay in being unresolved. Theomach,,could just as easily be GoodBad..or ,,,YesNo..or ..RightWrong..etc...Its the conflicting diametrically opposed,,that seems to be subtle " travel Back to" here. Yes, SRD has taken Linden and Us,,to the very foundation of the way we think...Hence the heavy emphasis, as Malik points out,,on the perception,,the optic nerves of the transistion..SRD is refering to how we think and perceive here.,,and how the polarized Good Vs Evil way of seeing and thinking,,is confusing and ...well...am I the only one here that picked up a bit of Lewis Carrol as in Alice in Wonderland..as in statements made, as pointed out by Malik,,that were almost nonsensical in there confusion. Convenant,," That should have been Impossible!"..Theomach.." Indeed!"..The back and forth between Theomach and Convenant struck me as a demonstration of the futility of each'es " reasoning"...They hold each other as hostages to their own perspective of this "path."

Here is a point to note,,in this Good vs Bad polarized conflict..events are predictable. The Theomach is all about knowing whats going to happen..The message is..if one is predictable( by knowing how they think),, then one is more easily manipulated..So, there is collusion here between Theomach and TC/Jerry..on various levels.

So,,,as far as Illusions go..Theomach is at least in collusion with it all. Interference Indeed!! I don't like the Theomach. I don't like being predictable. But maybe that is whole point of Theomach,,to demonstrate the folly of being predictable. The end of FR is born here, in this chapter.

[wayfriend]

This is one of may favorite chapters. Possibly my favorite chapter in all of the last Chronicles! Malik, I am totally jealous that you get to be the one to crack this one open.

So much packed into this chapter!!!!

First, let me say that I loved the disorientation at the beginning. It's very effective - I felt disoriented myself. It was compellingly written in my opinion. The way we're teased by this stranger, and this tantalizing conversation with Covenant, before we're really even ready. It's pulling us forward while we can't even see yet, and we're stumbling.

The way the whiteness of the snow compares to the whiteness of the ceasures. Ceasure travel has left us expecting the unusual. Now, something as mundane as snow seems stunning, confusing.

I just love this. It's so good.

I also like how both men have issues with being introduced. They both have reasons to mislead her, and those reasons are plausible, not mere writer’s tricks to fake out us, the audience. This was well thought out. Masterful writing. They both had something to gain by mystifying her.

Agreed. But more. They also both have good reasons not to blow the other one's secret!

Spoiler

If the Theomach reveals Covenant's duplicity now, it would provoke a battle that Linden would not win. Not only would Linden die, but the Arch may very well be broken by changing history -- there was never any knowledge of a fierce battle on those plains at that time. The Theomach plans to let Linden discover it herself later on. Where the effects of the battle can be explained away without changing history.

Something comes to light here that becomes an emerging theme.

"The Elohim would have done so, if I [the Theomach] had not."

"As long as [the Elohim] thinks shes the Wildwielder, she protects me."

So we have this emerging mechanic that explains something of the Elohim's actions. They won't do anything if someone else is there to do it. They trust the Theomach, or his people, or the Wildwielder, to take care of any serious dangers.

Which has a good side: the Elohim consider Linden's capacity adequate to what she will face.

And it explains why Covenant brought Linden, in straightforward language. If she wasn't here, Elohim would be. Obviously, Covenant feels sure that he can manage Linden better than an Elohim.

Theomach: "If ever she obtains that which will enable her to bear her strengths, your chagrin will provide my people with vast amusement."

Yes, that points towards future events. But it also points to Linden's weakness. As powerful as she is, she's not powerful enough. This dude, whoever he is, however he knows, agrees that Linden needs more power.

I key in here on the word "bear". The grace to bear that which must be borne. Covenant bears the grace. You can bear it. Joan bears the pain. Bear her strengths. Linden bears the power. Chosen. Sunsage. Wildwielder.

"You will require puissance."

"Sadly, it is incomplete." So the Staff isn't finished yet. That's clear now.

But the stranger returns it to Linden. I think he has proven that he is friend, not foe, in this action. Later, when Covenant rants about his people, I think we shall find that this stranger, the Theomach, is not numbered among those that covet her power.

(As for the significance of his touching the Staff, this reminds me of the Elders being allowed to touch the white gold in TIW. Their grateful to have a chance to sense something so important - it's an honor. But that's all it is, is an honor. )

The way Covenant warms Linden, it instantly reminded me of Foul healing Covenant's leprosy in TPTP. I wondered why. And the best I can describe it is, Foul erased Covenants leprosy as if it was never there, never consequential. It was too easy. This seems similar. Too easy.

“Because she is here. In this circumstance, her mind cannot be distinguished from the Arch of Time.”

My mind readily jumped to a meaning when I first read this.

Linden is like an ambassador. Thats the best analogy I can find. An ambassador comes from somewhere else. But he/she is a symbol of the country that they represent. People treat the ambassador the way that they treat the country that the ambassador represents. If they treat the amabassador poorly, there is war. If they treat them nicely, they may avert one. The amabassador is not litterally the same, but hes a proxy for the country.

Linden is like an amabassador for the Arch. Because what they do to Linden becomes what they do to the Arch. If they mess up with Linden, they mess up with the Arch, and boom. If they pussyfoot around Linden, the Arch remains in tact. How they treat Linden is how they treat the Arch of Time.

But I think that there's one more thing to it.

I think Donaldson is preparing us for understanding what Covenant meant when he said, I am the Arch. I think its going to be somewhat similar to what we see here.

I think that this is a critical clue. Covenant is speaking to the Theomach.

"I know more about what's going to happen to you than you do. And I guarantee you won't like it."

Spoiler

We know what happens to the Theomach. Up to the point of The One Tree. And nothing really bad happens to him. Therefore, Covenant here is probably referring to something that happens afterward.

I think something bad happened to the Guardian after Covenant left. Something that was the result of Brinn defeating him. The merging of Haruchai spirit with Elohim (and Insequent) produced some sort of abomination.

And it is this that Esmer refers to when he cries Havoc!

Just my theory. But this clue is one reason that I believe it.

Perhaps his entire purpose in diverting Covenant and Linden to this time was simply show Linden that Covenant didn’t know everything like he claimed.

Actually, I think its something much more straightforward.

He says "It will serve me well." And "And my path is indeed less perilous."

Spoiler

I think he did it in order to use Linden to meet Berek. And to keep Linden and Covenant from battling each other. And to divert their inevitable battle to Rivenrock, where it can be covered up. And to keep them away from Damelon.

"There you are. I was beginning to wonder."

Apparently Esmer was battling Jeremiah. Whose side was he on at that moment?

Spoiler

Esmer changes sides so many times. He was battling the urviles - Linden's team. Then be battled Jeremiah. To help Linden? Or to harm her?
I think he was helping her. That's one complicated, messed up faerie.

"Sometimes she does exactly the right thing without even knowing it."

I think that that line has a double meaning. I think it's Donaldson's promise to us. It's the closest he can come to telling the reader to believe in Linden.

Have I not said that she is well Chosen?

In the middle of this chapter is a deep interlude where Linden ponders questions. Does Jeremiah need her? Did she help him or hurt him giving him that race track?

There's no doubt now that the racetrack is significant!

Somehow, Linden knows that this was Jeremiah's gateway to the Land.

By buying the tracks and pylons for Jeremiah's raceway, she had in some sense freed him; or had given him the means to free himself. She had made possible an escape from blankness into the wealth and wonder of the Land.

The implications are staggering. How does a boy in the "real world" make a magic gateway with a plastic racetrack?!?!?!?!

Does Covenant's "real world" contain magic? Or has the events of the first two Chronicles started to break down the boundaries between worlds? Is something of the Land leaking into the real world?

I did not notice this until I read it last night.

"That's where Wildwood beat them. The terrain makes a kind of bottleneck. He could concentrate his power there. And he could smell that Raver. He knew who was responsible for slaughtering his trees. On his own ground, with the full force of Garroting Deep behind him, nothing could stand against him. He stopped generations of kings dead in Cravenhaw - and I do mean dead. In effect, he forced them to turn toward Doom's Retreat. If they'd kept on trying to force a passage through Cravenhaw, that damn Forestal would have left none of them alive.

"By the time they gave up, he'd developed a grudge you wouldn't
believe."

Man, Wildwood is a tough hombre. He kept people out of the Land until the Colossus fell, I guess.

"Somewhere deep inside it are the springs that form the Black River. That's another reason Caerroil Wildwood is so strong. The Black River feeds him. It carries a lot of power. Because one of its springs is the Blood of the Earth."

And that is how he did it. I guess you can draw Earthpower from the Blood of the Earth. Hmmm....

“Every neuron in her body except those that acknowledged the Staff refused to recognize where and who she was.”

What part of her body is not acknowledged by the staff? Is this worded this way on purpose? Why does the staff not acknowledge all of her?

I think this is more poetic rather than literal. It just means that she recognized the familiarity of the Staff, but could not make out anything else.

[Relayer]

This is a great moment in the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. The foreplay of the first five chapters is over. He's not leading up to something with teasing, hinting, developing prose. We're here.

Yes! This is the first chapter where I really felt the "flow" begin... up until now there have been some great passages, but my experience was too much confusion, too much frustration, with all the hints and doublespeak. I basically felt disoriented (to use your word) for the first 5 chapters -- as I'm sure Linden did too. Here, for the first time, in some totally different place and time, things felt like they made sense (of course I mean that metaphorically; this chapter introduces many more questions). It's almost like SRD took the feeling of the first 5 chapters, crystallized it into the description at the beginning of this one, and then began to finally start to shed some clarity (there's some line about how Linden finally started to become able to see...).

Maybe it was me, and this was where I finally connected into the story. But Malik essentially had the same experience. And even listening to it yesterday it feels different than everything before it in FR. Maybe it's because for the first time, it *made sense* that the two main speakers (TC and Theo) were fencing, searching each other for weaknesses, but at the same time, speaking more "truthfully" than most of what Covenant or Esmer has said before. Linden hasn't known enough to even question all the things Covenant has told her. But the Theomach does. Or maybe it's like you said, the first 5 chapters were the setup for what happens from here on. Because even though nothing really "happens" in this chapter, it totally rocks.

I'm gonna have to think on all the great comments here when I re-read it again.

[Aleksandr]

Or has the events of the first two Chronicles started to break down the boundaries between worlds? Is something of the Land leaking into the real world?


I had a sense of that even in the 2nd Chronicles. In the First Chronicles the Land in no way impinged on TC's real world, except to summon him. In the Second Chronicles we get Joan possessed, the Cult, Foul in the bonfire, Wild Magic pouring back into the real world when TC tries to send Linden back during the crisis at the One Tree, and the Ring in Linden's keeping at the end (Yes, I know SRD has claimed that didn't mean anything but this is one thing I really have trouble believing him on: it was too blatant a discrepancy). And at the beginning of the 3rd Chronicles we already have Roger doing Foul's bidding and Joan's actions in the real world having blow-back in the Land. Now, I still think that something happened to Jeremiah during the summoning scene at the bonfire in the Second Chronicles giving him a link to the Land, so the possibility that he can enter the Land on his own is not entirely out of the question.

[rdhopeca]

What about all the other kids with burned hands? Are they each also "leaking" into the land in some form or another?

[wayfriend]

I agree about the Linden holding the ring at the end: that was magic, not unconscious groping!

As far as the hands in the fire. The "data" in this chapter implies that the link to the Land was not made then.

In this chapter it says

By buying the tracks and pylons for Jeremiah's raceway, she had in some sense freed him; or had given him the means to free himself. She had made possible an escape from blankness into the wealth and wonder of the Land. And in so doing, she had lost him to Covenant.

But that, she insisted to herself, was not the crucial point. The crux of what she had inadvertently achieved was this: she had supplied her son with an alternative to ordinary consciousness, ordinary responses and emotions; ordinary life. She had made it easier for him to escape than to strive for a more difficult and precious form of recovery.

And earlier it said (to answer my own question of where this idea came from)

"But then you gave me that racecar set with all the tracks and pylons. When it was done-when you gave me enough pieces, and they were all connected in the right shapes-I had a"-he clung to Covenant with his eyes-"a loop. Like a worm that eats its own tail. I guess you could call it a door in my mind. I went through it. And when I did that, I came here.

"I don't mean 'here' the way I am now." He seemed to grope for words. "I wasn't a prisoner. I wasn't even physical. And I didn't come here—I mean to Revelstone-very often. There wasn't anybody I could talk to. But I was in the Land. I'm not sure when. I mean when in relation to now. Mostly I think it was a long time ago. But I was here pretty much whenever you put me to bed.

So, according to Jeremiah, he didn't get his link to the Land until he created it with his race track. This is one those "doors" that he can build, it seems.

One implication is that his brothers and sisters don't have those links.

But the big implication to me is that Jeremiah's door ability worked from the "real world"!!!!

[Zarathustra]

This is one of may favorite chapters. Possibly my favorite chapter in all of the last Chronicles! Malik, I am totally jealous that you get to be the one to crack this one open.

I couldn't have done it without you! Literally. I should have said this in my opening post, but thanks once again for letting me have this one.

But the big implication to me is that Jeremiah's door ability worked from the "real world"!!!!

That certainly is a big deal. I missed that. You're correct to point out that never before has anyone ever "summoned" themselves. But there is a big difference between J using the tracks, and all the other times people went to the Land: Jeremiah wasn't "physically" in the Land those times. Just his mind. While we can debate whether or not TC or LA were ever *physically* in the Land (such as--how could they possibly have two bodies?), Jeremiah's time in the Land was clearly different.

And yet . . . now that I think about it, the state Jeremiah is in now--being in two places at once--IS very similar to the whole "going to the Land" phenomenon anyway, because they WERE "physically" in two places at once (the 2 bodies problem). So is Donaldson starting to clue us in to how people can go to the Land in the first place?

Spoiler

If the Theomach reveals Covenant's duplicity now, it would provoke a battle that Linden would not win. Not only would Linden die, but the Arch may very well be broken by changing history -- there was never any knowledge of a fierce battle on those plains at that time. The Theomach plans to let Linden discover it herself later on. Where the effects of the battle can be explained away without changing history.

But doesn't this benefit Covenant, as per his stated goals later? I thought that was the reason he wants to

Spoiler

drink the Earthblood, to destroy the Arch.

So doesn't that undermine the reasoning of why Covenant wouldn't reveal the Theomach?

So we have this emerging mechanic that explains something of the Elohim's actions. They won't do anything if someone else is there to do it. They trust the Theomach, or his people, or the Wildwielder, to take care of any serious dangers.

Yes, this is an emerging theme in this book. And it emerges for a specific narrative reason: to allow Donaldson to force Covenant into needing Linden. If it had indeed emerged in this book alone, it would be more like an author’s trick. He needs these two characters to confront each other for dramatic and thematic reasons. But the plot mechanism is something other characters necessitate. That’s outside of these two, when it might be better from a character standpoint to have this necessity arise out of something paradoxical from Covenant.

Yet, Donaldson doesn’t even have to worry about saving himself on this issue. He has already set this precedent in the 2nd Chronicles. The Elohim favor inaction when others can act in their stead. So it's not contrived. It's part of his canon.

Which has a good side: the Elohim consider Linden's capacity adequate to what she will face.

And it explains why Covenant brought Linden, in straightforward language. If she wasn't here, Elohim would be. Obviously, Covenant feels sure that he can manage Linden better than an Elohim.

This is an interesting paradox. I almost want to call it a contradiction. How can Covenant be so sure that the Elohim won’t interfere—precisely because they trust Linden to be sufficient to handle him . . . and he KNOWS this—while at the same time thinking that he can handle her? He betrays no fear whatsoever that they might be right about Linden and he might be wrong. How can he account for the Elohim’s noninvolvement while simultaneously believing Linden isn’t a problem for him? Surely he must know the source of their confidence, if he trusts that confidence enough to allow him to attempt this. In short, he both trusts the Elohim’s judgment of Linden enough to attempt his plan, yet doesn’t trust them because he thinks he can still succeed? These two extremes are never made explicit, why he believes BOTH strongly and explicitly enough to act.

As powerful as she is, she's not powerful enough. This dude, whoever he is, however he knows, agrees that Linden needs more power.

But then why would Covenant think the Elohim trust her? How does he account for it in his mind, while at the same time dismissing it?

The ambassador of the Arch doesn’t clear it up for me. I see how it makes sense as an analogy, but I don’t think it answers my questions. (Maybe my questions are unnecessary, or confused. But I still don’t know why.)

I think Donaldson is preparing us for understanding what Covenant meant when he said, I am the Arch. I think its going to be somewhat similar to what we see here.

Maybe. When I read your ambassador analogy, it made me think of Covenant more than Linden. However, even if Donaldson is trying to prepare us, I can’t get past the massive difference between Linden and Covenant. He’s dead, she’s not.

Spoiler

We know what happens to the Theomach. Up to the point of The One Tree. And nothing really bad happens to him. Therefore, Covenant here is probably referring to something that happens afterward.

I think something bad happened to the Guardian after Covenant left. Something that was the result of Brinn defeating him. The merging of Haruchai spirit with Elohim (and Insequent) produced some sort of abomination.

And it is this that Esmer refers to when he cries Havoc!

That’s a fascinating idea. Maybe that explains why it was dangerous for Linden to know who he Theo was, because

Spoiler

she is still going to interact with him in the future (her future), while she won’t for Berek.

Spoiler

I think he did it in order to use Linden to meet Berek.

Spoiler

I thought the Theomach was already Berek’s adviser.

[Aleksandr]

So, according to Jeremiah, he didn't get his link to the Land until he created it with his race track.

OK, I'll buy that-- though I think we need to be careful taking anything Jeremiah and TC tell Linden at face value.

Spoiler

It appears to be Foul's strategy to guilt-trip Linden in wild and dangerous actions.

However, why would Jeremiah's magic door lead to the Land? Why not some other world? Even if he failed to exploit it previously I think Jeremiah is linked to the land by virtue of his experience at the Second Chronicles summoning. And wasn't he the last child to burn his hand in the fire-- meaning the opening to the Land that allowed Foul to partly materialize would have been nearly complete? His mental state forever afterward suggests that something unusual (magical?) happened to him that night. None of the other burned children became quasi-autistic, or leaked into the Land.

By the way let me praise Malik's dissection. It was exceedingly well done, and he brought up all kinds of things I had somehow skimmed right over when I read the chapter. My only complaint is that we can't follow up on most of the points he raises because they lead right into a spoiler minefield.

He betrays no fear whatsoever that they might be right about Linden and he might be wrong.

OK, this is one spoiler I think I will follow up on:

Spoiler

Lord Foul's purpose will be accopmplished no matter what happens at the Earthbood. Either Convenant succeeds in his purpose-- though Im not sure Foul wants that as destroying the Arch without White Gold in his hand might be a bad idea even for him-- or else Linden will be sufficiently goaded toward guilt and despair by the things she learns that she will end serving Foul's purposes later on. Covenant and Jeremiah are both tools here, whether they realize it or not. In some ways they are like Drool Rockworm, thinking they hold the power when they are merely puppets.

[wayfriend]

Re: Jeremiah's race track

You pointed out something I forgot to mention, Malik. The race track points to a new way of people from the real world getting to the Land. That, too, is important.

Aleksandr, as for why he goes to the Land and not somewhere else - important question. I think it is answered most simply by saying that it's because it's the boundary between the real universe and the universe of the Land that is breaking down, and not any other. Whether its because each summonsing connects them a little closer, or because the Laws of Life and Death helped keep the boundary defined, or because Joan is literally blasting the barrier apart with her ring.

Then again, Jeremiah's magical power came from somewhere. He used it to build the racetrack, therefore it argues that something must have happened to him before he built it.

But not necessarilly. It could be that he stumbled into something which opened a door upon its completion. And that his magical powers are the result of his having come through that kind of door, not the cause.

RE: the Elohim

He betrays no fear whatsoever that they might be right about Linden and he might be wrong. How can he account for the Elohim’s noninvolvement while simultaneously believing Linden isn’t a problem for him?

Because he thinks he's stronger than the Elohim think he is. Because he thinks he knows a way to get around Linden's power that the Elohim haven't thought of. Because the goal isn't to do what the Elohim fear, but something else. Because the Elohim would stop him in a different way, and that's somehow important. I don't know ...

If you ask me, this avoidance behavior of the Elohim looks utterly predictable. Which means it can be used against them if you devise the right plan. That's what I suspect is going on here.

[Relayer]

Spoiler

General thought about interpreting Roger's actions: We don't know that Foul, Kastenessen, and Roger all have the same goals. Or the croyel for that matter. I got the sense at the Earthblood that Roger didn't give a hoot what Foul wanted, he had his own megalomania.

Spoiler

quote from Malik: I thought the Theomach was already Berek's adviser.

Nope, when the party reaches Berek's camp, we see that they have not met.

Re: links to the Land. We know that the person's body is still in the 'real world' -- otherwise the doctors who had TC during LFB and TPTP would've remarked on it somehow. All we really hear is "he's recovering!" but not "omigod, his body just materialized in Room 212!"

I think we need to be careful taking anything Jeremiah and TC tell Linden at face value.

I generally think the "facts" are pretty accurate.

Spoiler

It's the interpretations that are manipulated. Like TC's story about Berek in Ch. 3, or the one he tells about the war at the end of this chapter, or the way Jeremiah tries to pull on Linden's emotions.

Then again, Jeremiah's magical power came from somewhere. He used it to build the racetrack, therefore it argues that something must have happened to him before he built it.

I agree with you. He's had the ability to build constructs for a long time before ROTE begins, far longer than the 3 months since Joan got the ring back.

[Aleksandr]

Back when we only had Runes to go on, I had a theory about Jeremiah, which I will reprise here.
I suggested that he had been in the Land all along, that at the Summoning in TWL he had been accidentally grabbed and brought to the land by the Ur-Viles, who had been intending to grab Linden, behind Foul's back, instead (they needed her for Vain's purpose), but who had been forced to deflect their power when they learned that Foul was also grabbing Linden. (Recall that people can be brought to the Land by accident: Hile Troy). This theory explained Foul's atypical anger at the Ur-Viles better than their making Vain did (if they later refused to yield the boy up to him), explained Jeremiah's fugue state in the real world ("he's only a husk" as Roger said), may have even explained why the Elohim foresaw Linden coming but not TC (they were unable to foresee Foul's purposes but could see what the Ur-Viles purposed). As to how Jeremiah ended up in the land the right age, and in the far future of it, the Ur-Viles fleeing through a caesure (something we alreday know they did) would account for this.
Now, there's been some stuff come up in FR and perhaps in the GI that probably refutes this theory. But I wanted to throw it out there anyway to get people thinking. The race track business can be accommodated as Jeremiah reaching back to himself to establish a connection.