OK, so we know who our next President is.....
Whee!
I've been saying this all along, but it bears repeating: the fact that McCain ran as close as he did speaks to the uneasiness that people feel towards Obama.
I'm going to be cautiously optimistic with a few caveats....
- Obama, with the exception of Biden, doesn't have a good history of surrounding himself with good people. It concerns me that he's going to have to pick a cabinet.
- He's really inexperienced.
- The government is controlled by a single party.
All that said, hopefully this get's the RNC's head out of it's ass.
The Official Election 2008 Aftermath Thread
The Official Election 2008 Aftermath Thread
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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I'm becoming more convinced of the average voter's ignorance. Did you see the Howard Stern video in Harlem?
And in NJ, we had 2 state questions, and the people actually voted to allow the govt to borrow money from the taxpayers w/o their approval. Granted, the wording was criminal, and most probably didn't understand what it meant, but that's my point.
EDIT: I forgot, the great people of NJ also elected an 84 year old man to his record 5th term, a man who when he first ran, attacked his opponent for being to old.
And in NJ, we had 2 state questions, and the people actually voted to allow the govt to borrow money from the taxpayers w/o their approval. Granted, the wording was criminal, and most probably didn't understand what it meant, but that's my point.
EDIT: I forgot, the great people of NJ also elected an 84 year old man to his record 5th term, a man who when he first ran, attacked his opponent for being to old.
--Andy
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
I'm not going to flat-out call the vast majority of the electorate ignorant, but given the huge number of incumbents reelected, you have to wonder....
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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High Lord Tolkien
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Massachusetts was a conservative bloodbath.
Question 1: the elimination of State income tax.....defeated
Question 2: having a small amount of pot just gets you fined rather than jailed....passed (I was for this one though)
Question 3: banning dog racing...passed
John Kerry....wins
Barney Frank....wins (the lunacy of this just made me laugh out loud)
Every Republican statewide lost actually.
I just want to thank George Bush for being such an inspiring conservative leader.
Question 1: the elimination of State income tax.....defeated
Question 2: having a small amount of pot just gets you fined rather than jailed....passed (I was for this one though)
Question 3: banning dog racing...passed
John Kerry....wins
Barney Frank....wins (the lunacy of this just made me laugh out loud)
Every Republican statewide lost actually.
I just want to thank George Bush for being such an inspiring conservative leader.
https://thoolah.blogspot.com/
[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
[Defeated by a gizmo from Batman's utility belt]
Joker: I swear by all that's funny never to be taken in by that unconstitutional device again!
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wayfriend
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Re: The Official Election 2008 Aftermath Thread
This is remarkably like the post-election set-up in 2000.Cail wrote:- Obama, with the exception of Biden, doesn't have a good history of surrounding himself with good people. It concerns me that he's going to have to pick a cabinet.
- He's really inexperienced.
- The government is controlled by a single party.
Really. This is nothing. There's a good number of people who you'll never convice that this is so bad ... not after they had eight years of a president proven worse than they had ever feared.
HLT: While we're thanking GWB for ruining it for Republicans (was it really just him?), I think we need to add to the list that he made people fear, rather than praise, divided government -- by turning into a human veto machine, he kept Congress ineffectual right up until he needed them in October.
Anyway: I hope Obama picks a cabinet from both parties, as he hinted he will do. I think he might be able to attract Colin Powell, for one.
The next few weeks will tell us if he is going to embark on partisan revenge or being a real uniter. I'm pretty confident on the latter, but I've been wrong before.
.
I'm still blown away - and still waiting to see if Gordon Smith (R), OR got defeated. The man had ads featuring Barak as an ally, fercryingouloud. and We'll see if they worked.
Does anyone know what the final Electoral Vote was? All of the stuff I used to say about Republicans running the Legislature and Executive branches is now our Responsibility. It's amazing. It's scary. Soon, we're going to see so many things:
- If Dems can create a repeat of the Clinton/FDR takeovers, and put the final nail in Trickledown economic theory.
- If the remaining 'Pubs are going to continue acting as the obstructionist voting block they've acted as for the last two years.
- If the Dems can actually start acting like they've got a hope in hell of winning-even if it's a Security Issue.
- If the 'Pubs are going to learn anything from their losses. Or rather, what they'll learn: Are they going to become the Fiscal Conservatives they used to be? Are they going to become even more the Social Conservative, Big Government fascists they were turning into?
Final question: What if this works? What if, despite the strongest-held belief in ideology, regulation and taxing the top more than the middle actually straightens out the economy? What if diplomacy makes us safer than war? What if inclusion works better than divisiveness (well, we've got a pretty good clue on that one)?
Is it going to be more spin and pushback from the Right? Or can we all get on board?
In short, I want to know right now from our Conservative brethren (and sistren): If we're actually better of as a country in 4 years than we are now, are you gonna vote Obama?
Does anyone know what the final Electoral Vote was? All of the stuff I used to say about Republicans running the Legislature and Executive branches is now our Responsibility. It's amazing. It's scary. Soon, we're going to see so many things:
- If Dems can create a repeat of the Clinton/FDR takeovers, and put the final nail in Trickledown economic theory.
- If the remaining 'Pubs are going to continue acting as the obstructionist voting block they've acted as for the last two years.
- If the Dems can actually start acting like they've got a hope in hell of winning-even if it's a Security Issue.
- If the 'Pubs are going to learn anything from their losses. Or rather, what they'll learn: Are they going to become the Fiscal Conservatives they used to be? Are they going to become even more the Social Conservative, Big Government fascists they were turning into?
Final question: What if this works? What if, despite the strongest-held belief in ideology, regulation and taxing the top more than the middle actually straightens out the economy? What if diplomacy makes us safer than war? What if inclusion works better than divisiveness (well, we've got a pretty good clue on that one)?
Is it going to be more spin and pushback from the Right? Or can we all get on board?
In short, I want to know right now from our Conservative brethren (and sistren): If we're actually better of as a country in 4 years than we are now, are you gonna vote Obama?
Last edited by Plissken on Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
-- James Madison
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
-- James Madison
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
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aTOMiC
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As long as we aren't sent plunging toward a Socialist State and fundamentally altering the constitution I'll be fine with it.
I have heard many people, in the closing days of the election, openly speak about their desires for such things so I'm understandably concerned.
I have heard many people, in the closing days of the election, openly speak about their desires for such things so I'm understandably concerned.
"If you can't tell the difference, what difference does it make?"
"There is tic and toc in atomic" - Neil Peart
Oh: And whaddya think is going to be on the "Cut" list after President Barak Hussien Obama (Wheeee!) does his line-by-line review of the budget?
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
-- James Madison
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
-- James Madison
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
I've seen and heard loads of positive reactions in the press; and in the people over here. It seems that the election result pleases many in the world; not just those voting for the dem's in America.
Got to say; I liked John McCain's departure speech; I would never have agreed with many of his policy's; coming from the botched right as they do; he was better than Bush. More moderate than some; but I felt it would just be a do-over of the disaster that was the last eight years to have McCain in office. Thank god.
Though I will agree with many here; I, too, am not sure about Obama's experience in regards to ruling the most powerful; and in my opinion, the best, country on earth. It doesn't seem quite good enough to say "Oh, anyone is better than George Bush", Obama has much to do to prove himself yet; I await his actions with interest and some trepidation.
Goodbye George Bush; you won't be missed.
Got to say; I liked John McCain's departure speech; I would never have agreed with many of his policy's; coming from the botched right as they do; he was better than Bush. More moderate than some; but I felt it would just be a do-over of the disaster that was the last eight years to have McCain in office. Thank god.
Though I will agree with many here; I, too, am not sure about Obama's experience in regards to ruling the most powerful; and in my opinion, the best, country on earth. It doesn't seem quite good enough to say "Oh, anyone is better than George Bush", Obama has much to do to prove himself yet; I await his actions with interest and some trepidation.
Goodbye George Bush; you won't be missed.
I think Obama's got a lot to live up to, and I don't think he'll be able to do it (Clinton couldn't). I think that it's wishful thinking that much will be cut from the budget, just as I think his tax cuts are wishful thinking.
I sincerely hope he does reach across the aisle, but his record doesn't suggest he will.
I sincerely hope he does reach across the aisle, but his record doesn't suggest he will.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
If Obama's economic policies provide sustainable prosperity for all, if Obama's foreign policy decisions make future generations safer, if his actions lead to legitimate breakthroughs with those who oppose the US and representative government in general rather than simply appeasing those who seek to harm us, if his decisions are principled and address the difficult issues without sacrificing long term priorities for short term detente than I will certainly be on board and will gladly vote for him in another four years.Plissken wrote:Final question: What if this works? What if, despite the strongest-held belief in ideology, regulation and taxing the top more than the middle actually straightens out the economy? What if diplomacy makes us safer than war? What if inclusion works better than divisiveness (well, we've got a pretty good clue on that one)?
Is it going to be more spin and pushback from the Right? Or can we all get on board?
My question to you is the same. If his tax policies lead to stifled innovation and economic stagnation, if his foreign policy turns out to be naive, if his presidency replaces political enmity with class warfare will you be willing to admit the failures of the policies or will there be a cascade of excuses as to the reasons why things didn't go as planned?
I look forward to the Obama administration with curiousity and hope. I sincerely hope that his policies produce the desired results but if they do not are his supporters going to be willing to change course and seek a middle ground?
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
I think that's a really good question Brinn. For the last two years, any criticism directed towards the Democrats in Congress has been shifted to the "obstructionist" Republicans. OK guys, it's all on you now, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the GOP will still be blamed for everything.
We'll see.
We'll see.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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Zarathustra
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This question was aimed at Plissken, and he can't be blamed for what has happened in general . . . but Barney Frank got reelected!!!Brinn wrote:My question to you is the same. If his tax policies lead to stifled innovation and economic stagnation, if his foreign policy turns out to be naive, if his presidency replaces political enmity with class warfare will you be willing to admit the failures of the policies or will there be a cascade of excuses as to the reasons why things didn't go as planned?
Nothing will change with regards to partisan loyalty, regardless of where our country is in four years. Hell, our economy started its current downturn in the last years of Clinton's term, but no Democrat ever renounced the policies of liberalism based on the evidence that 8 years of Clinton led to a recession. So if people wouldn't acknowledge the truth for that example, they're not going to acknowledge an Obama failure, no matter how bad it is. If people aren't going to acknowledge that the Dems created the current economic crisis with the housing bubble, why bother asking if minds are going to change in a hypothetical future? They are currently, and have consistently in the past, failed to acknowledge the failure of liberal economic policy.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
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kevinswatch
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Time for a shopping spree!! I have substantial funds set aside for guns and ammo. Stock up on your ammo guys! I don't think the 2nd amendment is in real jeopardy, but like Charlton Heston, they will pry my gun from my cold, dead hands. Remember, individuals (classified ads) and gun shows are the place to get em' with no paper trail. 
Never underestimate the power of denial. - Ricky Fitts
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Zarathustra
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Jay, I'm sure that 53% of voters agree with you. 
Meanwhile, for 46% of voters, it's a bittersweet moment.
I'm not so Libertarian that I can't appreciate the historical significance of this moment. It is a great moment to be alive and to be an American.
I found myself watching BET last night. Something, frankly, that I rarely do. (Hey, it's just an interest thing--I don't watch any sports channels either.
). Anyway, it was extremely inspiring to hear the BET commentators talking about how this is going to elevate the black community. And not merely vicariously, but in how Obama's presidency will inspire black people to be more than they have been, to not settle for the rapper, gansta mentality. To realize that it's okay for a black man to speak like a Harvard graduate, and to not peer pressure each other into glamorizing the criminal lifestyle. Now, blacks can respect and aspire to authority because the highest authority figure in the land is black.
Remember, this is black people saying this, not me. I found it refreshing to hear them judge themselves, and recognize their own shortcomings, and to acknowledge that Obama's win is inspiring. For white people, there is a sense of proving that we're not racist, and that America in general has taken a huge step forward in rejecting racism. But the black perspective I was hearing--one that called on personal action and accountability, rather than a gloating "we beat the old white guy"--was even more inspiring, to me, than Obama's win. Who cares what his win means to a bunch of white people? Our ancestors are the ones who are responsible for the origins of racial tension to begin with. But to hear black media immediately talking about what they have done themselves, and how Obama makes them want to be a better person . . . well, it makes me want to be a better person to. Truly inspiring to hear.
Meanwhile, for 46% of voters, it's a bittersweet moment. I'm not so Libertarian that I can't appreciate the historical significance of this moment. It is a great moment to be alive and to be an American.
I found myself watching BET last night. Something, frankly, that I rarely do. (Hey, it's just an interest thing--I don't watch any sports channels either.
). Anyway, it was extremely inspiring to hear the BET commentators talking about how this is going to elevate the black community. And not merely vicariously, but in how Obama's presidency will inspire black people to be more than they have been, to not settle for the rapper, gansta mentality. To realize that it's okay for a black man to speak like a Harvard graduate, and to not peer pressure each other into glamorizing the criminal lifestyle. Now, blacks can respect and aspire to authority because the highest authority figure in the land is black.Remember, this is black people saying this, not me. I found it refreshing to hear them judge themselves, and recognize their own shortcomings, and to acknowledge that Obama's win is inspiring. For white people, there is a sense of proving that we're not racist, and that America in general has taken a huge step forward in rejecting racism. But the black perspective I was hearing--one that called on personal action and accountability, rather than a gloating "we beat the old white guy"--was even more inspiring, to me, than Obama's win. Who cares what his win means to a bunch of white people? Our ancestors are the ones who are responsible for the origins of racial tension to begin with. But to hear black media immediately talking about what they have done themselves, and how Obama makes them want to be a better person . . . well, it makes me want to be a better person to. Truly inspiring to hear.
Last edited by Zarathustra on Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
I just hope Obama has the best security he can get... I've already read several news articles about people that were planning to assassinate him. Staying in America for as long as I did, and in the south, convinced me there's plenty of racists in america that would only be too happy to kill Obama just over the color of his skin.
<mod edit: Syl>
<mod edit: Syl>
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SoulBiter
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I think this is the best thing that could happen to the Republican party. They just dont seem to get the message and hopefully this will send the message that they need to go back and regroup and figure out why they lost.
History:
1992 Clinton is in office with a slim Democrat congress but people dont feel that the Dems are doing a good job.
1994 The people give the control of congress to the Reps during which they are able to govern effectively on conservative principles for the next 6 years even with a Democrat as the President. Alot of good came from those years.
2000 Things have gone so well that we end up with a Republican President and a Republican congress. They dont govern based on conservative principles but we give them a break because of 9/11.
2006 They continue to not govern very effectively and finally we send a message to them by giving the Dems a slim majority in congress. They still dont get it....
2008 The Reps lose big.. they lose the Presidency AND lose lots of ground in congress.
Hopefully the message will sink in.. the Reps were given control of the whitehouse in 2000 and they allowed that mandate to corrupt them. They quit governing using the conservative principles. So no one.. I repeat.. NO ONE should be surprised at this victory for the Democrats.
I for one, hope they have learned something from the Republican failures and will turn things around for the better. If they dont.. I hope that the Republicans can go back to their base principles and re-create themselves to be an effective governing body again.
History:
1992 Clinton is in office with a slim Democrat congress but people dont feel that the Dems are doing a good job.
1994 The people give the control of congress to the Reps during which they are able to govern effectively on conservative principles for the next 6 years even with a Democrat as the President. Alot of good came from those years.
2000 Things have gone so well that we end up with a Republican President and a Republican congress. They dont govern based on conservative principles but we give them a break because of 9/11.
2006 They continue to not govern very effectively and finally we send a message to them by giving the Dems a slim majority in congress. They still dont get it....
2008 The Reps lose big.. they lose the Presidency AND lose lots of ground in congress.
Hopefully the message will sink in.. the Reps were given control of the whitehouse in 2000 and they allowed that mandate to corrupt them. They quit governing using the conservative principles. So no one.. I repeat.. NO ONE should be surprised at this victory for the Democrats.
I for one, hope they have learned something from the Republican failures and will turn things around for the better. If they dont.. I hope that the Republicans can go back to their base principles and re-create themselves to be an effective governing body again.
We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch 
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Lord Mhoram
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