ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol

[balon!]

Now what i wanted to know was, Findail said that the Quest had to pass The Gaurdian of the One Tree to gain acsess to the isle correct? In order to do that Brinn sacrificed himself while fighting him. So then when Berek came to make the first staff, without the use of the Bloodguard how did he pass the Gaurdian? Was there even a Guardian?

[I'm Murrin]

The guardian was Berek's Haruchai travelling companion. Berek was the one who set the guardian to watch the tree.

[balon!]

Ahhh now that makes sense. But then was the original Guardian a haruchai? if so why was Kevin the first diplomat with them?

[I'm Murrin]

Apparently Berek travelled all around the world before setting up the Council of Lords, meeting the Haruchai (different to Kevin, since Berek was just learning his lore, didn't have Staff yet, didn't have armies and Lords and all that), making the Staff of Law, and probably other stuff we know nothing about (but maybe it'll be in the next chrons?).

[balon!]

Is donaldson doing a post TC chronicals? i understood that it would be with Linden.

[dlbpharmd]

While it is true that Berek placed the Guardian at the One Tree, I'm not certain that he was Haruchai. My memory may not be correct. I recall that Brinn told of the Legend of ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol, but did he actually say that he was Haruchai? If so, I find it unlikely that the Haruchai would've travelled to Revelstone with the intent to conquer, and been so impressed by Kevin.

[dlbpharmd]

Is donaldson doing a post TC chronicals? i understood that it would be with Linden.

Yes, but not necessarily post TC.

See the thread entitled "News that sets SRD fandom on fire" further down the main page.

[Fist and Faith]

Well, Findail tells us:

"The Worm was not made restive by [Berek's] approach, for he did not win his way with combat. In that age, the One Tree had no Guardian. It was he himself who gave the Tree its ward, setting the Guardian in place so that the vital wood of the world's life would not again be touched or broken."

And Brinn tells us:

"There is a tale among the Haruchai, a legend preserved by the old tellers from the farthest distance of our past, long ages before our people encountered Kevin Landwaster and the Lords of the Land. It is said that upon the edge of the Earth at the end of time stands a lone man who holds the meaning of the Haruchai - a man whom we name ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol. It is said that he has mastered all skill and prowess that we desire, all restraint and calm, and has become perfection - passion and mastery like unto the poised grandeur of mountains."

Now it's possible that Berek encountered ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol faaaaaaaaar from the Westron Mountains, somewhere else that might be considered "the edge of the Earth." He would likely have told Damelon about them, who may have passed the knowledge on to Loric, and on to Kevin. So the Haruchai may not have been a complete surprise to Kevin.

However, it's also possible that ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol was not Haruchai. Brinn doesn't actually say he was. Brinn's joining with the Guardian may have been the first Haruchai blood in this process that "renews him from age to age." Mind you, I don't think this is right. I can't imagine the Haruchai would, or even could, find their meaning in a non-Haruchai. But I just thought I'd bring up the possibility.

I'm also going to bump an old thread about this awesome character.

[balon!]

Im going to have to agree with the latter, theres just no way that a Haruchai would prove themselves on a non-Haruchai. Especially something so deeply entwined with each Haruchai's personla goals.

[[Syl]]

That, and unless things changed a lot in 3000 years, Kenaustin Ardenol is not a Haruchai name. As I stated in the other thread, it's a classic warrior name, but seems to have no relation to the Haruchai. It sounds more like the name of a buffered analgesic... mwah ah ah. Bayer, Bannor's long-lost brother.

[birdandbear]

[Forestal]

i dont get it

[Fist and Faith]

It could be that the reason Brinn "conceive[d] him to be ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol" was that he was in telepathic communication with him. Which we're not aware of the Haruchai ever doing with anyone other than each other.

[Azurophyte]

There was no guardian at the One Tree in Berek's time. Berek placed him there to prevent anyone reaching it again. Findail expressly said that. Berek was a seer and prophet and he believed that if a new staff was ever made it would need to be different, as the old one had failed. Now, the nature of the ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol is a bit different. It's unlikely that it was a Haruchai Berek travelled with. More likely its some being of Earthpower Berek discovered. If it had been a Haruchai they would have remembered it, itd be unlikely theyd forget. The legend most likely spread to them in later days of this great warrior far away. The ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol probably took on the Haruchai form to face Brinn.

(Anyone who says hes a Haruchai because his name starts with ak-Haru is most likely wrong, thats his name in the Haruchai tongue, and it probably shares the same properties the Haruchai pride themselves on).

[Landwaster]

Yep it could be that 'Haruchai' might mean 'people' in the Haruchai's language, as it refers to them as a people.

Hence ak-haru might mean 'some bloke'.

[Fist and Faith]

There was no guardian at the One Tree in Berek's time. Berek placed him there to prevent anyone reaching it again. Findail expressly said that.

Gee, if only someone could find that quote.

Berek was a seer and prophet and he believed that if a new staff was ever made it would need to be different, as the old one had failed.

That idea is something of a revelation to me! I always just figured Berek didn't want anyone messing with something as powerful and potentially dangerous as the One Tree. Which is probably true enough. But the idea that he didn't want anyone making another Staff from it for that reason is REALLY great!!

Now, the nature of the ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol is a bit different. It's unlikely that it was a Haruchai Berek travelled with. More likely its some being of Earthpower Berek discovered. If it had been a Haruchai they would have remembered it, itd be unlikely theyd forget. The legend most likely spread to them in later days of this great warrior far away. The ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol probably took on the Haruchai form to face Brinn.

Well, that bit about being "renewed from age to age" in that manner would not appear to be a typical Haruchai trait. Could be a member of some race, or maybe a fairly uncommon being as the Ravers are, that does normally renew themselves in that manner.

(Anyone who says hes a Haruchai because his name starts with ak-Haru is most likely wrong, thats his name in the Haruchai tongue, and it probably shares the same properties the Haruchai pride themselves on).

To be precise, if we are to believe the glossary , ak-Haru is "a supreme Haruchai honorific." No, it doesn't necessarily mean the being they gave that title to must be Haruchai, although I hesitate to say the theory is "most likely wrong."

[Landwaster]

Hmmm ... honorific ... so maybe it means "Top Bloke"?

[birdandbear]

okay.....I'm not sure how to put this, or where it's going, so I'll just throw it out and let you guys pick it apart - which is what you're good at.


If Tan Haruchai means "We accept", is it possible that Ak-Haru means something like "He who has ultimately accepted"?


ergh....I'll try to explain....

Fist wrote:

Quote:
"There is a tale among the Haruchai, a legend preserved by the old tellers from the farthest distance of our past, long ages before our people encountered Kevin Landwaster and the Lords of the Land. It is said that upon the edge of the Earth at the end of time stands a lone man who holds the meaning of the Haruchai - a man whom we name ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol. It is said that he has mastered all skill and prowess that we desire, all restraint and calm, and has become perfection - passion and mastery like unto the poised grandeur of mountains."

The Haruchai have always struck me as very eastern in their fighting style, and in the extremity of their (apparant) racial philosophy. They seem very Zenny to me, from what little I know of Zen and Tao, and their schools of thought. That whole deconstruction of the Id, to become one with the universe rings a bell with the Haruchai to me.

Perhaps the Haruchai ideal of acceptance is to lose the self completely, and pursue only duty, whether the duty of the individual Haruchai is to guard a particular Lord, or keep TC's scrawny butt alive, or to defend and propagate the tribe.

Perhaps it is only the complete surrender of the self that allows one to become the perfect warrior. And even the Haruchai are human - as subject to individuality as the rest of us. Giving up food and sleep and comfort and sex are easy compared to giving up your Id entirely. Maybe it takes a special blend of willingness, ability, circumstance, and whatever to allow one to become Ak-Haru - a sort of Haruchai Buddah.

And Kenaustin Ardenol would not have to have necessarily been Haruchai...just someone who was able to make the jump.




Help me out here Fist - What am I trying to say?

[Fist and Faith]

Ah, b&b, you make me !!!

First off, allow me to bump one of my favorite threads!

*bump*

There.

Yes, you have it right. In order to become "paragon and measure of all Haruchai virtues," to "master all restraint and calm," as ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol did, one must achieve the ultimate Tao/Zen ideal. No needs, no desires, no concern for self, no sense of self. Then you can fulfill your place in the pattern perfectly. Indeed, you and that role become one and the same.

What ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol's role was before Berek set him on the Isle, though, I don't know.

Regarding his race, although there's no definite proof, I believe ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol is Haruchai. Two reasons:
1) As we've all said, he has achieved their ideal. Could anyone other than a Haruchai pull that off? Is there a race out there that is more Haruchai than the Haruchai? Or did some individual of a race that isn't normally up to Haruchai standards stumble across it before any of them did, despite the fact that they all seem a hair's breadth away? I don't like either answer.

2) When we meet ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol, we are told:

Brinn or Cail might have looked like that if the intensity of their lives had permitted them to reach extreme old age.

It didn't say "Sunder might have looked like that..." He looks like an old Haruchai. Not an old Stonedowner, Bhrathair, Ramen, or anybody else. So at least the last one to "renew" him must have been one of the Haruchai.

[Durris]

I can't imagine the Haruchai would, or even could, find their meaning in a non-Haruchai. But I just thought I'd bring up the possibility.

As you pointed out in the Dissection of "The Search", the Haruchai have always been a most solitary people; I doubt very much that they'd be able to invest an ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol's worth of meaning into a flatlander of any nation or species.

They have through the generations had troubles with attaching to flatlanders as sources of meaning and then (of course) being disappointed by us: Kevin, and, differently, Covenant and Linden (if indeed they ever served her for her own sake rather than because she was a companion of Covenant ).

Though Covenant didn't turn into another Kevin, he could not have permanently sustained a new Vow; he explained to Durris that no one--of the Land or of this world--could constantly remain worthy of Haruchai service or provide meaning enough to guarantee/justify/underwrite such allegiance.

But that's a different kind of meaning-making, less intrinsic than the combat with aHKA.

If Tan Haruchai means "We accept", is it possible that Ak-Haru means something like "He who has ultimately accepted"?

It seems probable, doesn't it? Especially since Brinn's combat with him has to extend acceptance into a previously unprecedented domain. In a culture that (as Fist says) never, ever, considers the possibility of losing, losing to win is a conceptual revolution.

Yes, you have it right. In order to become "paragon and measure of all Haruchai virtues," to "master all restraint and calm," as ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol did, one must achieve the ultimate Tao/Zen ideal. No needs, no desires, no concern for self, no sense of self. Then you can fulfill your place in the pattern perfectly. Indeed, you and that role become one and the same.

Brinn's only possible way to win the fight with aHKA was to say "MU!" to the question "succeed or die?"--to unask the question. He sacrificed not only his individual life and his attachment to winning, but also the absolute either/or between success and death that had been central to his people since long before Elena's sculpture of Bannor made it visible to Mhoram et al.