Did the New Lords get their Mindmeld power from the Haruchai

Post by **aTOMiC** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:39 pm

If the new Lords were unique from the Old Lords by their mental link, where did that ability come from? Since the Haruchai have a similar talent, is it possible that the New Lords acquired that power from the Bloodguard? I don’t recall this fact being explained in the context of the story. A little help?

Post by **variol son** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:58 pm

The Haruchai or the Ranyhyn. They are the only two races in the Land that seem to have that sort of ability. Perhaps one or the other, or maybe both, decided that the new lords needed something extra since they were less than the old lords, so they taught them the mind meld.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Post by **Landwaster** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:00 pm

I'm sure they probably learnt the skill via study or lore ... perhaps the 1st Ward ... but whence that info originally came, I cannot say. Maybe Kevin got it off the Haruchai.

Post by **variol son** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:09 pm

But if Kevin knew how to do it, why didn't he. Mhoram clearly states in TPTP that he believes in the mindmeld because it is the only thing that belongs just to the new Lords. I think he might have even said that it didn't come from the old Lords, but even if he didn't, doesn't he suggest that anyway?

Sum sui generis
Vs

Post by **Landwaster** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:16 pm

Ok, I had to go find my shovel as I've only dug half a hole for myself and wish it to be deeper

There is no reason why my speculation needs be correct. Its just a whim.

BUT, surely Kevin and his lordlings of the time are, like the rest of them, human. By all means they could have studied and worked out some of the powers of the Haruchai (or ranyhyn) mind-messaging, but not clicked and thought "hey, we should apply this to ourselves!". Or maybe they thought of it but were missing one final, vital ingredient, and it just needed a fresh perspective.

Kev was a legend in his own time, but by no means able to think of everything!

I'm sure some cavemen or whatever worked out that a wheel could ease transport difficulties, but didn't think of using it for block & tackle issues at the time.

Post by **variol son** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:16 am

Perhaps the commonality of the oath of peace was what they needed? Just a thought.

Hi Landwaster, we seem to be following each other around, don't we.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Post by **Landwaster** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:22 am

*waves back to variol son* ... yeah I'm on a bit this morning, being a kiwi, you'd probably be aware we had a day off in in Victoria, Australia here yesterday (Melbourne Cup, you know, we claim your horses as ours just like we claim your actors

), so today is a very laid-back day at work ... heaps of time to check this board and other boards out.

But that's a cool idea, the OoP opening a way to realising the skills for mindmelding! Still, you'd think that the cleverer non-lords would also work it out, yet only Lords could do it.

Didn't Elena once try to mindmeld with TC and he could feel the effort? Weird eh? sounds like you could maybe even possess a weak enough victim through it, if you had enough power. Ravers, anyone?

Post by **Landwaster** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:22 am

My God! The rukh! Corrupted mindmeld?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Post by **birdandbear** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:32 am

Perhaps the mind-meld thing was a byproduct of the OoP?

Post by **birdandbear** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:34 am

Ooops.

I see that's already been suggested. That's what I get for walking away from the computer for an hour and then posting without refreshing the screen.

Post by **Landwaster** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:35 am

Yeah that's what variol son was mentioning up above, and it has some merit. I mean, it could just be an extreme form of empathy!

Post by **variol son** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:25 am

I actually got there through logic. It went like this:

Question: What can the new Lords do that the old Lords couldn't, or for some obscure reason, didn't?
Answer: The mindmeld.

Question: What have the new Lords done that the old Lords didn't?
Answer: The most significant was the Oath of Peace.

So I figured that there may be some sort of connection. If the oath could restrict some expressions of power, would it not be able to release others?

Sum sui generis
Vs

Post by **aTOMiC** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:38 am

Based on the posts so far, I'm inclined to believe that it is possible that possibly because of the oath, the New Lords were able to accept the gift of the mind link from the Haruchai that Kevin and the Old Lords could not.

Post by **variol son** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:45 am

Would the Haruchai give that sort of gift? I can see the Ranyhyn doing that, but not the Haruchai. It just doesn't seem in their nature, given their opinion of lore and all that.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Post by **Landwaster** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:56 am

I agree, clearfrontier ... I've think we've got this sussed out! Now, who's gonna tell SRD?

Post by **Landwaster** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:57 am

Gawd variol son, the Haruchai gave a pretty darn selfless gift in the Vow, I don't think sharing the mindmeld skills would be that big a sacrifice!

Post by **variol son** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:30 am

Landwaster wrote:Gawd variol son, the Haruchai gave a pretty darn selfless gift in the Vow, I don't think sharing the mindmeld skills would be that big a sacrifice!

The Vow had very little to do with sharing lore though. Mindmelding would.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Post by **Landwaster** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:31 am

Point taken ... though it might not have been lore for them, it might just have been an evolutionary quirk.

The lore involvement might simply have been a bit of genetic modification of folks who weren't born with the skill.

Post by **variol son** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:37 am

Like having six toes? Um. You raise an interesting point.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:38 am

But he believed in the meld. Of all the lore of the new Lords, only this belonged solely to them; the rest had come to them through the Wards of Kevin Landwaster. And when it was practiced purely, melding brought the health and heart of any Lord to the aid of all the others.

Of course, we don't know that the Old Lords did NOT have the same meld, we only know that the New Lords did not get it from them. And if the Old had a meld, it doesn't sound like the New knew about it. But still, it's conceivable. Maybe Kevin tells about it later on in the Wards.

And Mhoram doesn't mention having gotten the idea from the Haruchai. But if they had, why wouldn't the Old Lords too? Landwaster is right, nobody can think of everything, but if you're looking for a way to communicate without speaking (and there are likely many good reasons you would want to do this, even outside of war), and you have a model literally dogging your steps every waking moment, wouldn't you try to make it work for you?

We discussed this a while ago on the Oath of Peace thread, because I, too, thought there had to be a connection. The Earthpower took the Haruchai at their word, assuming they meant that they wanted to guard the Lords every instant of their lives, and took the Vow to its ultimate possibility.

The Oath of Peace is all about trust, helping, comfort, yadda yadda. Maybe the Earthpower took the Oath to the same lengths. Maybe it said, "You trust each other? OK, I'll give you access to each other's minds! There's no greater show of trust than that! And there's no way to help and comfort each other more fully either."

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Did the New Lords get their Mindmeld power from the Haruchai

Did the New Lords get their Mindmeld power from the Haruchai