2009 Best *Post* in The Close Nominations and Discussion

[Menolly]

The Close - it's where all the adults argue religion like children. The question is, who did it best? In post form that is.

Please link to the post.

Nominate.

[StevieG]

There was a post of Fist's that I thought was amazing but he posts too much in there and I can't find it

However, I reckon this in an awesome post, and I nominate it:

I don't know how to get to Cail's post exactly, so here's the link in "Nonsense about Christianity":

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... &start=180 - about 4 posts from the end of the page...

I'm going to preface this by saying that I am not a theologian, and I speak for no one other than myself. I'm also not interested in changing anyone's mind. If someone does, it's on them.

Cail, serious questions here, I ask because I don't know. : How can this be? I am a little ignorant of Catholicism -- Christians as you know beleive Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven. So those who don't accept Jesus as a personal savior and God's Son will go to hell. So according to them, Catholics are going to Hell. Is this your understanding of Baptists beliefs as well?

From the way things went in the Baptist church I went to, it seemed like if you weren't attending the sermon, you weren't going to Heaven. I've never understood a lot of the hate towards Catholics from the various fundamental Protestant sects. I think it's a lack of understanding, but I honestly don't get it. The thing that I (now) find ironic about many of the fundamentalist churches is that they stress the importance of being "born again" in Christ, but they rely almost solely on the Old Testament, which is utterly devoid of His teachings.

How do Catholics allow that Christians will go to heaven (salvation) if they (presume) falsly that Jesus is God's Son and therefore don do the things Catholics do (ie confession, etc) to make sure they have salvation??

I think there's a ton of confusion about the Trinity. The best way I can explain it is that God exists as more than one thing. God is God, yet he is also Jesus, who is also God's son. Jesus was both divine and human. It's that dichotomy that made the sacrifice so meaningful. God gave us His son, quite literally part of Him. He died horribly....as one of us. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to go that way.

Anyhow, we (Catholics) do believe that Jesus was/is God's son. Yet He's also God. From the Profession of Faith:

"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father. Through him all things were made."


As far as the various sacraments are concerned, they are not a prerequisite in order to have salvation. They're important, and we (or at least, I) take them pretty seriously, but there's no checklist at the Pearly Gates.

again, I ask because I dont understand and would love to. Because This is a big problem of mine. It appears to me that all religions claim salvation is available to everyone, but when you get down to it, if you arent part of their religion, you are out.

Again, I think this is yet another misconception. One of the first questions I asked of my Priest when I converted was, "Do you believe that Jews go to Heaven?". His answer (the right one) was simple. The New Testament speaks of "the new and everlasting covenant" that Christ declared His blood to be at the Last Supper. The old covenant never ceased to be....That is, the Old Testament promise made to the Jews.

Now as far as everyone else is concerned, there's this from our Profession of Faith:

"We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and earth, and of all things seen and unseen."

One God, period. One God who (being God) can manifest himself in many ways to many people. The God who made Heaven and earth has revealed himself to me as the God of the Catholic Church. To someone else, he's the Presbyterian God, to another he's Allah, and so on. No mortal can claim the knowledge of God, so who the Hell are we to say which faith is the "only" one and the rest are wrong?

One God, different ways of getting to Him.

Point is that anyone can achieve salvation. There is no single path.

[Avatar]

I'll second that.

And nominate Fist. (Post link pending...)

--A

[StevieG]

I'll second Fist, when the link appears

[Linna Heartbooger]

Sweeee-eet! I remembered this post, and thought of it in particular when I went to look & see what got the award!!

Congrats, Cail!