Did Angus.........

Post by **Revan** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:53 am

Love Morn? What do you thing?

Post by **birdandbear** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:16 pm

errrgh.

(> me after three hours sleep.) Yes I think he did. No I have neither the time nor the mental coherence to come up with a valid argument why I think so. I have to leave very soon. Gradnads 80th birthday this weekend...family stuff. Need coffee. See you in a coulpe of days. Bleurgh.

Post by **aTOMiC** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:52 pm

In whatever capacity that he was able, I think Angus had very strong feelings about Morn. Given his psychology I'm not sure he was capable of love in the more traditional sense but, maybe.

Post by **Angus Thermopyle** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:18 am

Yeah, in his own way, I think he did.

Post by **Variol Farseer** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:20 am

Cromas Tummins wrote:In whatever capacity that he was able, I think Angus had very strong feelings about Morn. Given his psychology I'm not sure he was capable of love in the more traditional sense but, maybe.

Yes, you could say he loved Morn, but I think you'd be doing some fundamental violence to the word. It's a bit like C.S. Lewis's Screwtape Letters, where Screwtape signs each of his letters to Wormwood, 'Your affectionate uncle'. But in the last letter, we see what 'affectionate' means in the dialect of Hell:

C.S. Lewis wrote:Rest assured, my love for you and your love for me are as like as two peas. I have always desired you, as you (pitiful fool) desired me. The difference is that I am the stronger. I think they will give you to me now; or a bit of you. Love you? Why, yes. As dainty a morsel as ever I grew fat on.

And at the very end, he signs that last letter:

C.S. Lewis wrote:Your increasingly and ravenously affectionate uncle
SCREWTAPE

Did Angus love Morn? Why, yes. Increasingly and ravenously. Granted, he wouldn't actually devour her physically, but her mind, her spirit, her emotions, her soul, were the daintiest morsels he ever grew fat on.

Post by **Dragonlily** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:45 pm

Variol Farseer wrote:Did Angus love Morn? Why, yes. Increasingly and ravenously. Granted, he wouldn't actually devour her physically, but her mind, her spirit, her emotions, her soul, were the daintiest morsels he ever grew fat on.

Humorously put, as ever, Farseer.

I give Angus more credit than that, because he was ruled by his intention to do anything Morn wanted him to. It wasn't his programming that decided that, he actively wanted to. Many times he thinks possessively, she is his, and she is -- his obsession.

Post by **Dragonlily** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:50 am

Computer glitch, duplicate post. Editing out.

Post by **Revan** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:20 am

I think he loved more, In his own sick demented way.

Post by **theDespiser** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:12 am

in his warped little mind, he did...it was explained in the last few pages, it seems to me...but of course, its open to interpretation...

i think he did, the same way Morn was thinking to herself about how she was glad when he left because she was ashamed about having feelings for him...

and the only love that Angus had ever felt in his life was his mothers, and that was only after she tortured him...so...

Post by **dANdeLION** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:56 pm

Yes, but he hated himself too much for it to show....

Post by **dANdeLION** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:57 pm

No, not really. I think he just wanted revenge on people in general.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:59 pm

Maybe; it's really hard to tell. On the one hand, he never met her, so it could have been love at first sight. On the other hand, he raped and beat her repeatedly, and love usually doesn't usually work that way.

Post by **Skyweir** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:23 am

i think angus felt some kind of remorse for the vile way he had treated Morn .. she was his possession .. and love is not a possessory term .. now that he had endured something akin to what he subject Morn to .. i think he felt acutely aware of his cruelty ..

notwithstanding his programming .. he was cognizant.. i think that she deserved better ..

i think .. to assign the word - "love" - to Angus' emotional relationship with Morn is imho indeed to do the word "a fundamental violence" ..

the question for me would not be whether Angus loved Morn .. or even if he did .. but whether Morn could ever .. actually .. "love" .. Angus?

Post by **Loredoctor** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:55 am

Well said, Skyweir! I was gonna write that myself.

It makes me think of the duality of love as between two people. Who are we to say what love is when the other's sense of love is different? I think that's what makes the Gap series so interesting - it is see the development of Angus and the maturing of his love for Morn. I think in the end he starts to see what love is to other people.

Post by **Dragonlily** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:33 pm

Ur-Vile wrote:the development of Angus and the maturing of his love for Morn. I think in the end he starts to see what love is to other people.

It would be hard for Morn to look at Angus without seeing the tortures he inflicted on her, but it would also be hard to look at him without seeing the many times he saved them all by doing the impossible. To say she couldn't love him is to say people can't change.

Angus and Morn are both much different people at the end of GAP than they were at the beginning. I don't think either one is allowing themselves to recognize that, even yet.

Post by **Revan** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:09 pm

If Morn had gone fully mad, she would have fallen in love with Angus, No doubt. But I was wondering, does she actually care about him. hmmmm, what do you people think?

Post by **Dragonlily** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:57 am

I say she relied on him. As she was when we left them, she still couldn't bear the thought of him touching her.

Davies to Angus:

I still think she'll be sorry she didn't get to say goodbye.

Post by **UrLord** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:11 am

she probably sympathized with him at the end, but I doubt there was anything like love there

Post by **Revan** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:15 am

I agree! I don't think she cared for him at all.

Post by **Skyweir** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:28 pm

she definately considered him .. I think she saw him as equally tortured and she had been ..

but yeah .. "love" .. that seems too much

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Did Angus.........

Did Angus.........