vegetarians?

[lorin]

who are the vegetarians on this site? please help with suggestions. I need to stop eating meat and would appreciate any advice about switching over. I like the taste of meat and cant seem to get beyond the first few days.

[Worm of Despite]

Did a Dr. tell you to stop eating meat? I wouldn't stop unless someone told me I -had- to, or if I was super-obese and they said this was "the only way" to lose weight (which I highly doubt...the real "only way" is exercise--and maybe portions if you really gotta).

I think I ate about four or so hamburgers last week, including one of those new bacon blue cheese things from Wendy's (plus a Frosty!) only two hours after eating a salad from Zaxby's. And I got a body that looks cut out of steel, baybeh.

[Menolly]

I'm no longer vegetarian, but I was for several years when I first left home, lorin. One thing I always believed about making the adjustment is your reasons why you want to give up meat. I feel the mental reasoning makes a big difference in the commitment. It becomes a way of life if the reasons resonate with you, rather than a diet.

Are you willing to discuss that?
Or do you only want to concentrate on switching over?

heh, looks like LF and I are sort of on the same mind-set.

[Harbinger]

I'm a vagatatrian, but I guess that doesn't help us much here.

If you like the taste of meat, why exclude it from a well balanced diet? You said you "need" to stop- is it a medical need, or do you just want to?

[lorin]

I am very willing to discuss this. Please, all of you, go easy on me, I am an admitted bleeding heart.

My issue is completely and consistently a feeling that eating meat is immoral. It is not so much the act of eating meat as much as the cruelty I see in the slaughter of these animals. When I lived upstate I used to see how they kept the veal calves. It was horrible. I have not eaten veal in 20 years. I have seen slaughter houses and they are a nightmare.


I have lost 100 pounds, my health is better than it has been in 20 years, my diabetes is gone, my cholesterol and blood pressure are down. I am ready to take the next step and begin to remove the pollutants from my body.

I no longer wish to contribute to this insanity. Becoming a vegetarian is not something I am just thinking about now. I have been trying to stop eating meat for years and years.

www.meat.org

[Menolly]

OK, so obviously mind set is there.
And you have already responded to it with veal.
I believe your first step is to think the same thoughts when a craving for meat of other types hit. Even if it is totally prepared and you are about to take a bite. Try to picture that which is motivating you to try to give it up.

As far as the switchover itself...
I am also of the belief that using "meat" substitutes make it more difficult. That is how I came up with my Carrot Dogs instead of eating vegetarian hot dog substitutes. Besides the fact that I find the vegetarian rubbery, the carrot is a totally different base taste and texturally for the condiments I then layer on top. Yet it really works!

And that is what I would suggest. When it is a specific type of meat dish you crave, find a vegetarian alternative, but one different enough that you don't try to compare it to what triggered the craving. Comparing only reinforces the craving.

[Harbinger]

In the spirit of open mindedness, I visited the meat site. Some of that footage looked really old. I do not feel a bit guilty about eating meat. But if I did, I would buy free range or local or whatever. Have you ever tried a free range chicken. OMG, they are so superior to what you get at the store. And I have had the pleasure of eating a chicken that was alive that day as well as fresh grain raised beef and pork. There is no comparison. My body craves meat. Evidently yours does too. Maybe there's a happy medium for you somewhere.

[DukkhaWaynhim]

There is nothing inherently immoral about meat, in my humble opinion. However, the economies of scale that have taken hold in our mass-production food system dictate certain practices.... that many of us would find unacceptable if we knew about them.

I suggest you find and patronize a local butcher, one that you can confirm does not buy from feed lots. You will pay much more for the meat, but the quality is much higher, and you can get certifications to prove it has less or none of the 'pollutants' you are referring to, things like growth hormones, or feeds that are high-bulk, high-protein slurries of cereal husks and other grain processing by-products, animal processing leftovers (yes, they do this, which is how mad cow disease came to pass)etc...

[[Syl]]

I live in a vegetarian household, though I eat meat when I'm out. I spent many years growing up on a ranch, raised sheep for 4H, and all that, so I don't feel guilty about eating meat when I do, though. I do like the vegetarian thing for health and other reasons, however.

My first piece of advice is to stop eating out unless you go to a place you know has good vegetarian food (you can't go wrong with Thai, and tofu is just as good with curry as chicken or beef). Shop at your local farmer's market if you can. If you can't, just pretend like the meat and cold cut section at the supermarket don't exist (and remember that canned/preserved meat always sucks).

Going back to tofu - learn it, love it. A lot of people are turned off by it, but the truth is that it just takes more skill to prepare deliciously. I'd hate it, too, if I ate it straight out of the carton.

Rice, lentils, polenta (mmm, polenta). Hearty bean soups. Speaking of soups, you just can't go wrong. Don't waste money on buying vegetable stock; it's way overpriced. Gordon Ramsey has a delicious broccoli soup recipe that I use all the time. If you make it a bit more watery and add some cracked black pepper, it also works as a good risotto base.

I disagree with Menolly about fake meat. Yeah, a lot of it sucks, but there's good stuff out there. Morningstar's products are mostly delicious, the only exceptions being the link sausage or chicken strips, the pseudo-grilled kind (crispy are good), but wait until they're on sale. Vegetarian hot dogs are more miss than hit, but some are decent if you don't mind experimenting.

Lots and lots of eggs and dairy. Cheese makes everything better, especially being vegetarian.

Crackers (again with the cheese), breakfast cereal.

Breads and other pastries. Waffles, pancakes, etc. Like with pasta, though, you really have to be careful with it if you don't want to blow up.

As a last resort, consider just going pescatarian. You're still incurring a karmic burden (;)) unless you go vegan, and fish are... well, fish. The smaller the fish, the more sustainable they are and the less you have to worry about toxicity from mercury and all that.

Once you get used to it, it's really not that bad. I doubt we have salad more than twice a month, and never just salad.

[Menolly]

I adore tofu.

Curry, sate, mau pao, mu shu...
Smoothies, "cheese"cakes, ice "cream"...
I prefer steamed over fried, but as with my love of prubens over reubens (as Orlion mentioned elsewhere), I like soft and voluptuous over a more firm texture.

But yeah. From mousses to eggless "egg" salad.
Tofu is incredibly versatile.

As far as the meat substitutes go, Morningstar Farms is good, and they even have a coupon out on their entrees at the moment. I like Quorn better as a meat alternative.

But I was addressing overcoming the craving for meat. IMO, even the best meat alternatives pale in comparison, if you are going to go looking for the flavor and texture of meat. Until vegetarianism becomes ones lifestyle, and the aroma and sight of meat does not trigger cravings, I just believe one is better off not trying to sate the craving with alternatives. I know for me it didn't work. I remained dissatisfied if I was attempting to satiate the meat craving, rather than appreciate the alternative for what it was.

I would say once I stopped seeking a substitute, and avoided meat alternatives for oh, about three to six months, then when I did use Quorn and Morningstar Farms products, they worked well. And they did not trigger any meat cravings. But, I had to go cold turkey from even meat alternatives for months, before the cravings dissipated.

[Harbinger]

Some meatless products are tasty. I enjoy Boca Burgers but I am careful to limit my soy intake. And I don't offer my son any. According to Men's Health, too much soy is dangerous for men.
www.menshealth.com/men/nutrition/food-f ... 0013281eac

[Menolly]

Quorn is not soy based.
And I find it pretty tasty.
It has had its own controversies, though.
But nothing that bothers me.

[[Syl]]

Barring iron deficiency (oh yeah, be sure to get a good multivitamin. cheap ones usually don't have iron), craving for meat is all in your head. There's nothing to get over. Good food is good food. If you don't have good food in front of you when you're hungry, then sure, you'll think you crave meat. That's not because meat is delicious (and it is); it's because meat is easy. It takes no skill to make bacon. It's why you don't see any fast food vegetarian restaurants.

No, just plan ahead if you think you're going to be weak. If you're bored with whatever snack you've chosen, switch to something else. Ignoring 'fake meat' just because it resembles meat is only limiting your options. By that logic, you're just as likely to relapse (because real meat would be so much better, right) if you go to it down the road.

The soy thing was sensationalized. There's zero evidence of any adverse effects on the male body besides a statistically lower testosterone count which is still within healthy limits. My son eats a lot of soy, and he's as boyish and healthy as they get. Asian diets are also very high in soy with no noticeable effect on their manliness.

I don't like the Boca, though. Maybe it's the soy. I prefer the TVP of Morningstar, I guess.

[Zarathustra]

Syl, I know your advice is for Lorin, but I just wanted to mention that men shouldn't take a multivitamin that has iron. Only women should do that. Men should take multivitamins that are specifically designed for men, and mainly that means no iron.

I made the mistake of ignoring this advice years ago, and after a few weeks everything started tasting metallic to me. The doctor said I was taking in too much iron, and gave me the advice I post above.

I second the Boca Burger recommendation. I can tolerate them microwaved, but they really shine when fried in a little olive oil. It gives them a nice crisp on the outside, and the juiciness of a burger. Put it on a bun with all the fixings, and it's a great substitute.

[Menolly]

Barring iron deficiency (oh yeah, be sure to get a good multivitamin. cheap ones usually don't have iron), craving for meat is all in your head. There's nothing to get over.

Again, I agree. There is no physical craving to get over; for me, and I suspect for lorin if she has tried as long as she said she has and still craves, it is a psychological craving with physical triggers such as smell, or even visual triggers such as ads restaurants.

Good food is good food. If you don't have good food in front of you when you're hungry, then sure, you'll think you crave meat. That's not because meat is delicious (and it is); it's because meat is easy.

Now there I disagree, as I have lots of decent vegetarian recipes (I think), but have found there are times when I make a really good one and while I am totally sated with good food, I may still think, "that would have gone really good with some salty ham..." Maybe, if I had had some Crispy Kale Chips, that wouldn't have happened. Maybe.

It takes no skill to make bacon. It's why you don't see any fast food vegetarian restaurants.

What?
No Veggie Bite or Zen Burger near you?
(actually, I think Zen Burger is closed)

No, just plan ahead if you think you're going to be weak. If you're bored with whatever snack you've chosen, switch to something else. Ignoring 'fake meat' just because it resembles meat is only limiting your options. By that logic, you're just as likely to relapse (because real meat would be so much better, right) if you go to it down the road.

Well, we can agree to disagree here.
But, I do understand your point of view.
I just know for me, it didn't work for the first few months.

[Harbinger]

The McLean was actually a tasty burger. Mickey D's was just a little ahead of it's time then.

Men who don't eat meat do need a little iron. Maybe the multivitamin is too much, but you can always cook a little something in an iron skillet a time or two a week.

[[Syl]]

Syl, I know your advice is for Lorin, but I just wanted to mention that men shouldn't take a multivitamin that has iron. Only women should do that. Men should take multivitamins that are specifically designed for men, and mainly that means no iron.

Good point. I was referring to my wife, who had a slight problem getting enough iron. I've never taken them regularly (and a lot of researchers will tell you multis are really just so much expensive urine). But then, I also eat meat fairly often.

...for me, and I suspect for lorin if she has tried as long as she said she has and still craves, it is a psychological craving...

As an on-and-off smoker, I'm suddenly reminded of Bob Saget's line in Half Baked (link only worth checking if you're not sure what I'm talking about). That's not a craving; it's a failure to make up your mind and commit. Unless you work at Hardy's or something, you can't really call meat a habit you have to break. You have to make a conscious effort to eat it, and without some kind of physical push (hunger and iron deficiency being the only two I know of) to overcome that, there's really no excuse. And yes, I would say the same thing about smokers who relapse after the withdrawal period, myself included.

What?
No Veggie Bite or Zen Burger near you?

Crazy Floridians. But I would totally eat at a place called Zen Burger.

[aliantha]

I like the Morningstar Farms veggie links. I thought their "sausage" patties and fake bacon were nasty. But to each his own, I guess.

Magickmaker doesn't eat red meat, and she has told me that she doesn't like the meat alternative products because they are so much like meat. So, y'know, whatever....

[[Syl]]

I like the Morningstar Farms veggie links. I thought their "sausage" patties and fake bacon were nasty.

We differ on the sausage, but I agree with the bacon. I even hate the smell of it. There is no good fake bacon. I'd say this was punishment from the gods for trying to imitate the greatest of foods, but I actually like turkey bacon.

[aliantha]

I like turkey bacon, too. In fact, I prefer it. I've done lowfat for so long that high-fat things tend to gross me out now. Which is how I got into eating Morningstar Farms products in the first place -- way less fat than the real thing.