THE WOUNDED LAND, Ch 6&7: The Graveler & Marid

TWL, TOT, WGW

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Furls Fire
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Post by Furls Fire »

All it needs now is different backgroud colors, a rainbow of quotes :)
And I believe in you
altho you never asked me too
I will remember you
and what life put you thru.


~fly fly little wing, fly where only angels sing~

~this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you~

...for then I could fly away and be at rest. Sweet rest, Mom. We all love and miss you.

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Post by Dragonlily »

The silence in the room vibrated.
Sunder's eyes echoed the argent fire like a revelation too acute to bear.
The return of blood to his arms raked his nerves like claws.
Each great quote brings a different type of "Yes!" reaction.
"The universe is made of stories, not atoms." -- Roger Penrose
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Post by kastenessen »

Joy wrote:
The return of blood to his arms raked his nerves like claws.
You can see it vividly in front of you, and thinking ouch! This hurts...It's so illustrative...

And regarding religion and especially christianity doesn't the following quote remind us of Jesus words on the cross.
"Father!" Sunder cried in dismay. "Was it true?. Was every word that you spoke a word of truth?"
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This post left on cutting room floor...
Last edited by Dragonlily on Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The universe is made of stories, not atoms." -- Roger Penrose
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Post by dlbpharmd »

I might be wrong, but in chapter six, for the first time in the chrons TC uses the white gold actively, with intention, and it's glorious...
I'm not following you here, Kast - I think that TC used the wild magic as you say in the thronehall of Foul's Creche in TPTP.
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Post by kastenessen »

dlbpharmd wrote:
I might be wrong, but in chapter six, for the first time in the chrons TC uses the white gold actively, with intention, and it's glorious...
I'm not following you here, Kast - I think that TC used the wild magic as you say in the thronehall of Foul's Creche in TPTP.
I went at once to TPTP and read the chapter....and came out with: Yes he used the wild magic the same way, it was enough with will alone to counter LF's powerlashes, he used a trigger, the Illearthstone. The difference is that the circumstances are different. In TPTP he is defending himself and in TWL it's a kind of showing of his power. In TPTP he is learning how to use it. In TWL he already knows. He came to Foul's creche with intention but not full knowledge. (Not that we know of. He brings forth the knowledge at the moment of it's need to counter LF. Did he learn it at that point or did he know before? I'm not really certain.) Much of what TC learns about how to use the white gold does he learn in the fight with LF, at least it seems so to me...LF's power is immense so of course TC has to learn while fighting him. He didn't knew what sort of power was there to act against him.

First, after your post i doubted myself, but the more I wrote the more certain I become of my reasoning regarding TC's use of the white gold. But I have to read the chapter in TPTP some more...still not 100% sure.
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Post by Foamfollower1013 »

"If I could see the Raver - why couldn't anybody else?"

Her question panged Covenant. "That's what really scares me," he said tautly. "These people used to be like you. Now they aren't." And I'm not. "I'm afraid even to think about what that means. They've lost - " Lost the insight which taught them to love and serve the Land - to care about it above anything else. Oh, Foul, you bastard, what have you done? "If they can't see the difference between a Raver and a normal man, then they won't be able to see that they should trust us."
Covenant fell silent. Telling this story, essentially as he had heard it ten years ago, brought back many things to him. He no longer felt blurred and ossified. Now he felt like the night, and his memories were stars: Mhoram, Foamfollower, Bannor, the Ranyhyn. While he still had blood in his veins, air in his lungs, he would not turn his back on the world which had given birth to such people.
His attention dropped through him to his ring, seeking for the link between orcrest and white gold. He remembered standing in sunlight and desperation on the slopes of Mount Thunder; he saw Bannor take his hand, place his ring in contact with the Staff of Law. A trigger. He felt the detonation of power.

You are the white gold.

The silence in the room vibrated. His lips stretched back from his teeth. He squeezed his eyes shut against the strain.

A trigger.

He did not want to die, did not want the Land to die. Lord Foul abhorred all life.

Fiercely, he brought the orcrest and the white gold together in his mind, chose power.

A burst of argent sprang off his forehead.

Linden let out a stricken gasp. Sunder snatched back the orcrest. A gust of force blew out the lamp.

Then Covenant's hands were free. Ignoring the sudden magma of renewed circulation, he raised his arms in front of him, opened his eyes.

His hands blazed the color of the full moon. He could feel the passion of the fire, but it did him no harm.

The flames on his left swiftly faded, died. But his right hand grew brighter as the blaze focused on his ring, burning without a sound.

Linden stared at him whitely, wildly. Sunder's eyes echoed the argent fire like a revelation too acute to bear.

You are stubborn yet. Yes! Covenant panted. You don't begin to know how stubborn.
---------------------

~Foamy~
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Post by Foamfollower1013 »

Covenant stumbled to the bush.

His head reeled. He fell to his knees. The bush was pale with dust and bore little resemblance to the dark green-and-viridian plant he remembered. But the leaves were holly-like and firm, though few. Three small fruit the size of blueberries clung to the branches in defiance of the Sunbane.

Trembling, he plucked one, wiped the dust away to see the berry's true color.

At the edge of his sight, he saw Sunder knock Linden's feet away, break free of her.

Gritting his courage, Covenant put the berry in his mouth.

"Covenant!" Sunder cried.

The world spun wildly, then sprang straight. Cool juice filled Covenant's mouth with a savor of peach made tangy by salt and lime. At once, new energy burst through him. Deliciousness cleansed his throat of dirt and thirst and blood. All his nerves thrilled to a savor he had not tasted for ten long years: the quintessential nectar of the Land.

Sunder and Linden were on their feet, staring at him.

A sound like dry sobbing came from him. His sight was a blur of relief and gratitude. The seed dropped from his lips. "Oh, dear God," he murmured brokenly. "There's Earthpower yet."
With a painful effort, Sunder dredged up his answer. "I do not wish to trust you." His voice was a wilderland. "You violate all my life. When I have learned that aliantha are not poison, you will seek to teach me that the Sunbane does not exist - that all the life of the Land through all the generations has had no meaning. That the shedding I have done is no less than murder." He swallowed harshly. "But I must. I must find some truth to take the place of the truth you destroy."

Abruptly, he took the berry, put it in his mouth.

For a moment, his soul was naked in his face. His initial anticipation of harm became involuntary delight; his inner world struggled to alter itself. His hands quavered when he took the seed from his mouth. "Heaven and Earth!" he breathed. His awe was as exquisite as anguish. "Covenant - " His jaw worked to form words. "Is this truly the Land - the Land of which my father dreamed?"

"Yes."

"Then he was mad." One deep spasm of grief shook Sunder before he tugged back about him the tattered garment of his self-command. "I must learn to be likewise mad."
He could not stop staring at Marid. Without shifting his gaze, he extended his right arm toward her.

She glanced at it, then gave a sharp cry and leaped to him, took hold of his arm to look at it closely.

He was loath to see what she saw; but he forced himself to gaze downward.

His forearm was livid. A short way up from his wrist, two puncture marks glared bright red against the darkness of the swelling. "Bastard bit me," he coughed as if he were already dying.
--------------------

~Foamy~
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Post by kastenessen »

What quotes Foamy!

One of many(so many) great moments in TWL is when TC discovers that aliantha has survived the Sunbane. I cried when I read it the first time and still it wrenches my heart...
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Post by duchess of malfi »

Well, I'm quite a bit behind in the group read, so will only tackle some bits of chapter 6 now, seven to follow later...
They were in a single room, as constricted as a cell. A heavy curtain covered the doorway; but opposite the entrance a barred window let the pale gray of dawn into the room - the late dawn of a sunrise delayed by mountains. The bars were iron.
...such a place would never have existed in a Stonedown in the First Chrons...these people have become like us - at our worst!
Covenant studied the top of her head, the way her hair fell about her thighs, and sought to comprehend. He had expected her to denounce him for what he had done, not for having confessed it. Why was she so vulnerable to it? He knew too little about her. But how could he ask her to tell him things which she believed people should not know about each other?
"I don't understand." His voice was gruff with uncertainty. "If that's the way you feel - why did you keep coming back? You went to a lot of trouble to find out what I was hiding."
She kept her face concealed. "I said, leave me alone."
"I can't." A vibration of anger ran through him. 'You wouldn't be here if you hadn't followed me. I need to know why you did it. So I can decide whether to trust you."
Her head snapped up. "I'm a doctor."
"That's not enough," he said rigidly.
His first look at the Stonedown:
But now he could see that several of them had fallen into serious disrepair, as if their occupants did not know how to mend them. If that were true - He snarled to himself. How could these people have forgotten their stone-lore?
Our first look at another phase of the Sunbane:
The sun shone over the eastern ridge in to his face. Squinting at it indirectly, he saw the orb had lost its blue aurora. Now it wore pale brown like a translucent cymar.
Marid swallowed convulsively. "You are a fool. What man or woman of Mithil Stonedown could weild a knife with the fire yet within it? Out of your own mouth you are condemned."
"Graveler," Covenant said , "touch him with your staff."
Around him, the Stonedowners rose to their feet.
Covenant clinched Marid in his gaze. "Do it."
Hesitantly, the Graveler obeyed.
As the tip of the staff neared him, Marid shied. But then a savage exaltation lit his face, and he remained still.
The staff touched his shoulder.
Instantly, the wood burst into flames.
And this last major bit of foreshadowing:
Abruptly, Linden spoke in a tone of startling passion. "You shouldn't have to kill your own mother."
Love as thou wilt.

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Post by duchess of malfi »

chapter 7, Marid -- Sunder's story always breaks my heart... :cry: :cry: :cry:

Sunder:
Out of the darkness, he breathed thickly, "Thomas Covenant, do not betray me."
The riverbed was as dessicated as a desert. Had the Law itself become meaningless?
Linden stood nearly, winded but still capable. And Sunder stood erect and impatient; he was tough as well as strong, inured to fatigue by a lifetime of difficult survival. The little bit he had seen and heard had taught Covenant that life in Mithil Stonedown was arduous and costly. Why else were these villagers willing to sacrifice their own parents - willing to condemn strangers and innocents to death? It was intolerable, that the bounteful Land he loved had come to this.

Linden stayed with him. Hunger had abused her face, giving her a sunken aspect; and she carried her head as if the injury behind her ear still hurt. But her jaw was set, emphasizing the firm lines of her chin, and her lips were pale with severity. She looked like a woman who did not know how to fail. He braced himself on her determination, and kept moving.
It isn't supposed to be like this! he echoed. The Land had become like Joan. Something broken.
The Graveler's eyes burst open. He spat a curse. "Decency, is it? he grated. "You are swift to cast shame upon people whose lives you do not comprehend. Well, let us hasten the moment when I may decently save you."
And the absolutely heartbreaking story of Sunder's marriage, to his first cousin and childhood sweetheart, Aimil (doesn't that name sound like the French Aimee?) and of their beloved child, Nelbrin, whose name meant "heart's child"...
"From that day he sickened toward death. A dark swelling grew in him, and his life faltered."
"Hemophilia." Linden breathed almost inaudibly. "Poor kid."
Sunder did not stop. "When his death was written upon his face for all to see, the Stonedown invoked judgement. I was commanded to sacrifice him for the good of the people."
A rot gnawed at Covenant's guts. He looked up at the Graveler. The dryness in his throat felt like slow strangulation. he seemed to hear the ground sizzling.
On protest, Linden asked, "Your own son? What did you do?"
Sunder stared out into the Sunbane as if it were the story of his life. "I could not halt his death. The desert sun and the sun of pestilence had left us sorely in need. I shed his life to raise food and water for the Stonedown."
Oh, Sunder! Coeveant groaned.
Tightly, Linden demanded, 'How did Aimil feel about that?"
"It maddened her. She fought to prevent me - and when she could not, she became wild in her mind. Despair afflicted her, and she-" For a moment Sunder could not summon the words he needed. then he went on harshly, "She committed a mortal harm against herself. So that her death would not be altogether meaningless, I shed her also."
How much can one man bear and remain sane -- and as decent as Sunder so obviously still is?And the hemophilia cannot possibly be a coincidence -- a disease involving blood...

at the first taste of aliantha:
"Oh, dear God," he murmured brokenly, "There's Earthpower yet."
And Sunder finding out how much of his life, how possibly even his great sacrifices -- was based upon lies:
Abruptly, he took the berry, put it in his mouth.
For a moment, his soul was naked in his face. His initial anticipation of harm became involuntary delight - his inner world struggled to alter itself. His hands quavered when he took the seed from his mouth. 'Heaven and Earth!" he breathed. His awe was as exquisite as his anguish. "Covenant -" His jaw worked to form words. "Is this truly the Land - the Land of which my father dreamed?"
"Yes."
"Then he was mad." One deep spasm of grief shook Sunder before he tugged back about him the tattered garment of his self-command. "I must learn to be likewise mad."
And one more lovely little quote about TC and his ever-growing attraction to Linden Avery:
Covenant found himself wondering how long it had been since a woman had last smiled at him.
Love as thou wilt.

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Post by Fist and Faith »

Abruptly, he took the berry, put it in his mouth.

For a moment, his soul was naked in his face. His initial anticipation of harm became involuntary delight; his inner world struggled to alter itself. His hands quavered when he took the seed from his mouth. "Heaven and Earth!" he breathed. His awe was as exquisite as his anguish. "Covenant -" His jaw worked to form words. "Is this truly the Land - the Land of which my father dreamed?"

"Yes."

"Then he was mad." One deep spasm of grief shook Sunder before he tugged back about him the tattered garment of his self-command. "I must learn to be likewise mad."
What strikes me most about this is Sunder's strength! One deep spasm of grief... He just found out that yet another "fact" of his life is a lie. He is no longer able to believe everything he has always been taught. And with this new understanding comes the realizations that the crazy father that he was ashamed of was the only true person he's ever known; and "that the shedding [he] had done is no less than murder."

Now think about how most people would react at this point. I can see someone breaking down and sobbing uncontrollably. I can see someone going catatonic, for years even. I can see someone going mad - literally insane - with grief. There's no amount of despair that wouldn't seem natural and justifiable in this situation.

But Sunder turns away from that, and looks to the Truth. He's had the tiniest glimpse of what the Land is supposed to be, what it can be again, and that's where his mind goes. Of course he feels grief. And he will probably be haunted for the rest of his life. But it does not dominate his life, or even this horrible moment.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
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Post by danlo »

Very good Fist! See any parallels between that and Linden's parents? :?
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Post by Niftium »

I think we see the phrase "the last dark" here for the first time in the sixth chapter (pg 110 in the DR hardcover):
He wished he could feel his ring; but even if his hands had not been bound, his fingers would have been too numb. Leper, he muttered. Make it work. Make it. The sunlight became a white cynosure, growing until it throbbed like the pain in his head. Slowly, his mind filled with a brightness more fearsome and punishing than any night. He opposed it as if he were a fragment of the last kind dark which healed and renewed.
I'm not sure how much we can infer from this, but it certainly sounds more positive in this context than outside of it.
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Post by Zarathustra »

I don't have my book handy. What was the context here? Did they know about the Sunbane yet? The words here were obviously chosen to have a positive feeling to them, and if Covenant and Linden don't know about the Sunbane yet, then this passage could be read as a foreshadow of it, setting up how the sun is something to be feared, and only night can provide escape.

And you're going to run into more references like this. I remember there being some in White Gold Wielder, too. What do you think this means? It's easy to say he's talking about death, but unless he's talking about Heaven or some kind of afterlife, death doesn't heal or renew.
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Post by Niftium »

Malik23 wrote:What was the context here? Did they know about the Sunbane yet? The words here were obviously chosen to have a positive feeling to them, and if Covenant and Linden don't know about the Sunbane yet, then this passage could be read as a foreshadow of it, setting up how the sun is something to be feared, and only night can provide escape.
This scene is while they are still prisoners in the Stonedown, just before Sunder brings Covenant the orcrest. As far as foreshadowing goes, I'm not sure that that works. You could probably argue that if night lasted long enough, the Land would heal. And although night brings a pause to the Sunbane's effects, those effects are by no means healed. I think SRD chooses his words very carefully; if we were supposed to take that meaning away, he probably would have used "escape" or something similar like you did.
Malik23 wrote:What do you think this means? It's easy to say he's talking about death, but unless he's talking about Heaven or some kind of afterlife, death doesn't heal or renew.
The only thing that came to my mind was sleep (for example, look back to Covenant in Morinmoss in TPTP). Obviously, in the case of the Last Chronicles' finale, it would have to be metaphorical. I'm thinking of that sort of sleep that follows the breaking of a fever. Now how exactly that metaphor could play out . . . you've got me.

If we stay with the "fever-wracked Land" theory, the caesures and other afflictions certainly play in to the idea. But what form would this sleep take? Or what would the breaking of the fever entail? The organic nature of the analogy makes it really difficult to use, but I think any description of the Land must be organic in some fashion.

Reading over all of that, I feel like I explained it poorly. It's admittedly sketchy, but that's three books away yet.
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Post by Zarathustra »

Sure, sleep is another option. However, sleep isn't really dark. In fact, it's often bright and colorful . . . kind of like visiting a fantasy world in your head . . . 8) In addition, there's nothing "last" or "final" about it, either.

I'm enjoying your ideas and analysis. It makes me wish I was rereading this stuff with you. Have fun!
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Post by Niftium »

Malik23 wrote:Sure, sleep is another option. However, sleep isn't really dark. In fact, it's often bright and colorful . . . kind of like visiting a fantasy world in your head . . . 8) In addition, there's nothing "last" or "final" about it, either.
I'm thinking of a very particular type of sleep. You know how when you're ill, you typically don't sleep well? Your dreams are quite colorful and weird during these bits of sleep. But, the last time you sleep while ill, either while your fever is breaking or just after it breaks, you typically sleep very soundly because your body is so exhausted from the ordeal. Technically the sleep isn't the cause of the healing, but it's definitely renewing.

Of course, this is all assuming that this pattern of illness and napping isn't unique to my own experience.
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Post by Zarathustra »

Niftium wrote: Of course, this is all assuming that this pattern of illness and napping isn't unique to my own experience.
Oh, I know what you're saying. I've definitely experienced that kind of healing, renewing sleep.

I just don't like where this is going. I'm 99.999% sure that Donaldson isn't going to pull an, ". . . it was all a dream," ending, with Covenant waking up in the hospital after that first fall in the street during LFB. Yet, these kinds of speculations tend to go that way. I hope he's aiming for something more profound than a sleep analogy with the title of the last book of the Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. :) But maybe that's what he was going for here. And who knows? The sleep issue could be one facet of a multifaceted metaphor. Sleep is itself a euphemism for death.

Going back to my afterlife remarks . . . I know that Donaldson himself isn't religious. I don't know his specific beliefs on God and the Afterlife, but my impression is that he doesn't believe in them. And yet, the Dead can come back in his fantasy world. Covenant himself can survive his own death with a near Christlike transformation. In terms of the story, an "afterlife" is certainly a literal fact of their world. (But it's complicated here because literal facts in the Land are also metaphorical truths in Covenant's world). So it's very difficult to predict where he is going.

I don't think we can expect an entirely happy ending. He's trying to write a story that is true to our being in this world, what it's like to be human. In particular, it's a story about living in a world where entropy is an inescapable, undeniable Law. You can't break that Law. Everything is running down and dying. Though there are powers that preserve, they don't do so indefinitely. Only for a little while. Long enough for you to enjoy it, and for it to have meaning. (What's that giant quote about the sea?)

So while there are ways and methods of renewal, I really do suspect that the Last Dark is the end. No more renewals. After all, the universe itself is headed for its own "heat death." I wonder if it's no coincidence that [Runes spoiler--are we still tagging this stuff in non-runes threads?]
Spoiler
Linden sees the danger to the Land as fire?
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Post by Niftium »

Malik23 wrote:I just don't like where this is going. I'm 99.999% sure that Donaldson isn't going to pull an, ". . . it was all a dream," ending, with Covenant waking up in the hospital after that first fall in the street during LFB. Yet, these kinds of speculations tend to go that way. I hope he's aiming for something more profound than a sleep analogy with the title of the last book of the Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. :) But maybe that's what he was going for here. And who knows? The sleep issue could be one facet of a multifaceted metaphor. Sleep is itself a euphemism for death.
I'm even more certain (99.9999%!) that it won't be that sort of ending, too. I think I'm a stronger believer than most (at least from what I've read in some threads) that the Land is a separate but equal reality - definitely not something as simple as a dream. The question is, as you said, how we are to predict the actions in the Land that correspond to the idea of beating an illness and recovering in sleep. Must the Land be completely ravished (including the breaking of the Arch) before it can be healed? My guess would be yes, and it sounds like you agree. And it's true: this is hardly a happy ending.

But I'm not sure that we're done with the Creator yet. Since I attribute some form of independent reality to the Creator and Foul, I assume there will be a new creation of some kind. By nature, the Creator must create.* If there is no Creator at all, not only is Covenant's recovery in TPTP a much murkier subject, but then we have to fall back on the "it's all a dream" scenario.
So it's very difficult to predict where he is going.
That sums it up perfectly. Hey folks, thanks for visiting. :lol:
So while there are ways and methods of renewal, I really do suspect that the Last Dark is the end. No more renewals. After all, the universe itself is headed for its own "heat death."
Or the other side of that coin is the "Big Crunch," followed by the birth of a new universe. This would actually fit better with the Runes spoiler mentioned since things will get much hotter in a crunch than in a slowly halting universe. If SRD actually means to use this cosmological metaphor, than I'm giving him much too little credit!

* - Vote for this sentence in the 2007 "Painfully Obvious Statement of the Year" competition!
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