!!SPOILERS!! AATE complete novel discussion !!SPOILERS!!

[Hiro]

Speaking of dead, is the Theomach supposed to be dead at the time of the events in AATE? That only occurred to me when Covenant recalled the Theomach participating in the council between Covenant and the Dead High Lords, etc. So Brinn killed the Theomach?

Looking forward to learning all there is to know about the Insequent in TLD!

According to my reading and understanding (page 543: "He and these spirits had gathered together..."), the Theomach is dead. Killed by Brinn ofcourse.

[Hiro]

It seemed for most of their time together that Covenant and Linden took turns being in La-La land, unable to interact with others and leaving the conscious one to deal with the problem at hand. Though, I don’t think the two could work together if they tried. When they were both conscious They were both trying to push decisions off on the other.

It's the second two-thirds of The One Tree all over again. Some excellent moments, but probably my least favourite portion of the Second Chronicles.

Agreed on this device, it becomes tiresome and repetitive. Although it didn't bother me in 'The One Tree', which I love.

[aliensporebomb]

I finished reading tonight a little while ago. I enjoyed this book the best thus far of the last chronicles. The last third kept opening my eyes wider and wider until that stellar Donaldson cliffhangar (he keeps doing this....).

I don't know if I can deal with two years of waiting but I guess I have to...

[dlbpharmd]

I finished reading tonight a little while ago. I enjoyed this book the best thus far of the last chronicles. The last third kept opening my eyes wider and wider until that stellar Donaldson cliffhangar (he keeps doing this....).

I don't know if I can deal with two years of waiting but I guess I have to...

More like 3 years.

[Dewey]

Hi All!
I finished the book about a week ago and want it to settle before I reread it. I quite enjoyed my first go around.
I do, however, have a question.

She who must not be named....why?
I mean, Who sez?

In whose interest is it that She remain ignorant of her own name?

In the Harry Potter case, Voldermort's name remains unspoken because uttering it would attract his attention.

But there seems to be a different reason for the prohibition here.

Is it in Foul's best interest that She remain unnamed?
Certainly Covenant suspected so when he demanded the information from Esmer. Perhaps its best that 'She must BE named'.

Thoughts?

Dewey

[thewormoftheworld'send]

If Her name is restored to Her—Esmer regarded Covenant with bafflement and nausea.—the result will be a cataclysm.

Remember that this is a Being powerful enough to uproot entire mountains.

[Verement]

I'm sincerely convinced the Earth & Land will be destroyed by the unstoppable Worm...if that doesn't happen, I'll be truly surprised. All the clues (both in the text, AND some of SRDs comments) lend me to this belief. After all, we "know" there will be a "Final Showdown" with Foul, because that's how the 1st & 2nd Chronicles ended. So what else can SRD do to truly rattle our cages and entertain the %^&^%^ out of us? Destroy....everything. The Earth,the Land, and all Time and Life throughout the universe. Everything dies (except our heroes) . The end of all things. And after that happens, wouldn't that certainly constitute the Last Dark??? That's my favorite theory on the matter.

Hmm - Are we reading this with the right emphasis? I have no real evidence but is this perhaps The Last Dark - as in no more darkness. Instead of seeing it as the end of all things it is the end of darkness...

[Hiro]

I'm sincerely convinced the Earth & Land will be destroyed by the unstoppable Worm...if that doesn't happen, I'll be truly surprised. All the clues (both in the text, AND some of SRDs comments) lend me to this belief. After all, we "know" there will be a "Final Showdown" with Foul, because that's how the 1st & 2nd Chronicles ended. So what else can SRD do to truly rattle our cages and entertain the %^&^%^ out of us? Destroy....everything. The Earth,the Land, and all Time and Life throughout the universe. Everything dies (except our heroes) . The end of all things. And after that happens, wouldn't that certainly constitute the Last Dark??? That's my favorite theory on the matter.

Hmm - Are we reading this with the right emphasis? I have no real evidence but is this perhaps The Last Dark - as in no more darkness. Instead of seeing it as the end of all things it is the end of darkness...

That's a very sharp perception, and I hope you're right. Somewhere in AATE the words 'the last dark' are mentioned, though I dunno where exactly...

[Vraith]

Hmm - Are we reading this with the right emphasis? I have no real evidence but is this perhaps The Last Dark - as in no more darkness. Instead of seeing it as the end of all things it is the end of darkness...

I pretty much agree...in a number of places I've said there's going to be tragedy/destruction...but ALSO a re-ordering, no more of Immortal powers bitch-slapping mere mortals into blackness.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Hmm - Are we reading this with the right emphasis? I have no real evidence but is this perhaps The Last Dark - as in no more darkness. Instead of seeing it as the end of all things it is the end of darkness...

I pretty much agree...in a number of places I've said there's going to be tragedy/destruction...but ALSO a re-ordering, no more of Immortal powers bitch-slapping mere mortals into blackness.

Hint: The ending of LOTR.

[Robin R-E Rudolph]

A question though, after 'Runes' and 'FR', I thought the story had already become filled with so many powerful characters competing. How do all these new characters impact the narrative?

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Too many strong characters.

You have discounted the importance of Jeremiah.....

[rockbroray]

Just finished AATE. Right now I think maybe the sacrafice of Elena might play a part in this story. Sometimes good can come from evil means. Any thoughts?

[Cambo]

Just finished AATE. Right now I think maybe the sacrafice of Elena might play a part in this story. Sometimes good can come from evil means. Any thoughts?

I think it's possible that redeeming Elena is one of the things on Covenant's "to do" list, since he seems content to leave saving the world in Linden's hands. Seems to me, since the only times he really acted in the book were to take on Roger and Joan, that he's concentrating on seeing to his family. Like the sequel to an action movie, this time it's personal.

Of course, in doing so he'll probably end up being just as important as Linden, if not more.

[Jussi]

I enjoyed this book the best thus far of the last chronicles.

Agreed. Fatal Revenant was really good, but AATE surpassed it. I especially enjoyed Covenant's PoV chapters. It looks like the Third Chronicles will be better than the First.

[Zarathustra]

This is one of the most insightful posts about AATE that I've read:

Romeo's right. In the 2nd Chrons, Linden was coming to terms with her feelings about her parents' deaths. She had compensated for her hate for her parents by becoming a healer. She learned to heal other people because she could never heal the first two people she should have been able to trust in her life. Now, in the 3rd Chrons, she's coming up against the limitations of that coping mechanism. She can't heal Jeremiah. She can't heal Joan. And now she's having to come to terms, not with her feelings for her parents, but with the damage her parents inflicted on her when they withheld their love from her. All that whining about "Covenant won't let me touch him -- he must not love me anymore"? That's *all* because somewhere, buried deep, she feels inherently unloveable. After all, her parents never loved her, why would anybody else?

Do you really suppose it's a coincidence that the two most important loves of her life are an unreachable child and a dead guy? Neither of them can *reject* her, fer cryin' out loud!

Very good post. Out of all my complaints for various portions of this book, this post is the first time I've reconsidered my position (well, for that one scene) and made me think the problem was how I read it, rather than how it was written. Good job, Aliantha!

[Endymion9]

Finally finished this. Sigh. Where to begin.

I rate this book the lowest in any of the chronicles as far as my enjoyment of it. I had read a review before beginning to read it, that said something along the lines that it had the usual elements that Covenant fans would enjoy although it might have a little more talking and less action that fans wanted.

So when I began and saw that I was up to about 20% read on my Kindle version before they ever left Andelain, I thought that was what he was complaining about. I enjoyed all of the conversation in Andelain and thought it was all necessary and advanced the story well.

The trip to the Lost Deep I also enjoyed and the confrontations there. I didn't read this entire thread but on the first few pages saw mention that She Who Must Not Be Named was a new immortal introduced late in the game. It has been many years since I read the first chronicles, but in LRB didn't Lord Mhoram imply that there was an ancient evil (nor the urviles) that they didn't want to dare wake and why they should be quiet and careful in transvering the Word of Warning? Or maybe that's just my foggy memory.

My problems with the book seemed to affect me the further I read. I'm trying to analyze it, and the best I can come up with is similar to what I didn't like about many of the short stories in Reave the Just and other tales. A feeling of hopelessness. In the first two chronicles TC faced many hard battles, hopeless looking battles and bitter defeats and loss of friends. But there was always some hope, some joy, something positive mixed in between these horrible events.

In this book the message seems to be Abandon Hope all Who Read Here. Nope no magic answers. No solutions. Only death and destruction. Even the minor victories seem hollow.

Sea, I saw that way back you said you were sorry to see the Harrow go and that he had a certain charm. He reminded me of the The Big Ego guy (name fails me) in A Mirror Rides Through.

For the first time, I'm not anxiously awaiting the next book. Although of course I'll read it.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

The trip to the Lost Deep I also enjoyed and the confrontations there. I didn't read this entire thread but on the first few pages saw mention that She Who Must Not Be Named was a new immortal introduced late in the game. It has been many years since I read the first chronicles, but in LRB didn't Lord Mhoram imply that there was an ancient evil (nor the urviles) that they didn't want to dare wake and why they should be quiet and careful in transvering the Word of Warning? Or maybe that's just my foggy memory.

They were afraid that touching the Warning would alert Drool to their presence.

[Endymion9]

One of my other problems with this book. In WGW it was shown that TC is the white gold. The ring just helped him access his power until he was "ready" to accept that he is the white gold. So why would going to the arch and coming back strip him of being the white gold? Makes no sense to me to have this powerless TC now.

I'll be working my way back thru this and other threads, so if this is answered elsewhere, I apologize for asking it again.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

One of my other problems with this book. In WGW it was shown that TC is the white gold. The ring just helped him access his power until he was "ready" to accept that he is the white gold. So why would going to the arch and coming back strip him of being the white gold? Makes no sense to me to have this powerless TC now.

I'll be working my way back thru this and other threads, so if this is answered elsewhere, I apologize for asking it again.

I think you're taking "you are the white gold" too literally. Are you suggesting that Covenant should be able to wield wild magic without white gold because he is the white gold? And I'm not sure that Covenant went to the Arch, that assumes the Arch is a literal thing existing somewhere. Covenant was able to absorb Lord Foul's attacks at the end of WGW because Foul was attacking 'himself' - there would have been no difference, I suppose, if Covenant had attacked Foul with wild magic. Covenant and Foul are one.

As for a powerless TC - his resources are not limited to wild magic, as we have seen. Leprosy gives him another source, albeit non-magical, but magical power is not the solution to every problem. Internal resources are even more important, and that's where TC's greatest strengths always lie.

[Endymion9]

One of my other problems with this book. In WGW it was shown that TC is the white gold. The ring just helped him access his power until he was "ready" to accept that he is the white gold. So why would going to the arch and coming back strip him of being the white gold? Makes no sense to me to have this powerless TC now.

I'll be working my way back thru this and other threads, so if this is answered elsewhere, I apologize for asking it again.

I think you're taking "you are the white gold" too literally. Are you suggesting that Covenant should be able to wield wild magic without white gold because he is the white gold? And I'm not sure that Covenant went to the Arch, that assumes the Arch is a literal thing existing somewhere. Covenant was able to absorb Lord Foul's attacks at the end of WGW because Foul was attacking 'himself' - there would have been no difference, I suppose, if Covenant had attacked Foul with wild magic. Covenant and Foul are one.

As for a powerless TC - his resources are not limited to wild magic, as we have seen. Leprosy gives him another source, albeit non-magical, but magical power is not the solution to every problem. Internal resources are even more important, and that's where TC's greatest strengths always lie.

I've seen that opinion expressed and believe it possible but don't totally accept that TC and Foul are the same yet. Unless I've missed something in the GI threads that directly says that.

I think Foul couldn't get past because he was attacking himself makes no sense at all. What makes sense is Foul was using the white gold ring, which does confer power to others as it does Linden, and TC was able to absorb it because he is white gold and more powerful than the ring along. Then TC went to the Arch where he could use his power being the white gold to protect the arch from further attacks. That's my take on it, at least where things stood at the end of WGW.

One of the things that has confused me in the last chronicles is Joan having so much power. In the first two chronicles white gold power all seemed to eminate from TC. I wasn't under the impression that any white gold ring would have power. That his ring only had power because he *is* the white gold. I can see Joan's ring having some power only because it is connected to TC, but it should not be equal to the white gold power in TC, but lesser. As Linden's power is lessor not being the rightful ring owner. Just seems like a fundamental shift in the world view from the 1st and 2nd chronicles to me, and not one I particularly like.