Vanir - Rules & Comments

[Goatkiller666]

I don't think you could not play.

As a matter of fact, Odin, *I* dare you to get the game part-way and then end the game again. Just to prove she won't.

I triple dog dare you.

[Han-shan]

Hey, she posted just as I did!

You know you're not capable of not playing these games. Lurking for such a long time, fascinated and excited by it all. Finally being "talked into it." Now you're so addicted you'd literally pull your hair out if you went back to lurking.

[Menolly]

Truth.

But having no resolution to the stories and setting at all is far worse.

I may not like what is happening in the forward facing world of Narie's inspiration, but I am thinking its overseer is committed to closing its current Age out fully. I am hopeful you have learned the same.

If not, I really do think I won't play future versions, and will leave it to the editor of the City to fulfill a complete story.

[Dread Poet Jethro]

Let us not forget
That Goat nit-picking the rules
Helped kill the first age

Isn't that the gist
Of what Odin said caused him
To pull Narie's plug?

Now Goat deprecates
Another player's New Hope
(Is he Palpatine?)

[Han-shan]

What did I say caused me to pull the plug?

[Goatkiller666]

Okay, points for the Star Wars reference.

But I'm not deprecating her hope. I'm citing it as an example of her addiction.

[Dread Poet Jethro]

Three extreme addicts
Who cares which is the most hooked?
All three need rehab!

[Han-shan]

Hmmm... Yeah, without Prophets at the start, I'm not sure how you want to work Revelations. You won't be revealing yourselves to anyone before Turn 1. So "Revelations" is probably not the right word. Just do whatever. Greet each other? Post your thoughts as you glance over the world, learning what I've posted in Background? Any other ideas?

[[Syl]]

No problem.

[Han-shan]

Didn't think you'd be bothered.

So the new map won't be coming until the weekend. I'm not sure I should say who, since it might make him feel pressured, but I've never make the maps. (Other than the first piece of crap. ) And he can't do it until the weekend. Hopefully, you've got enough to go on for now.

But here's a little more.

The forest on Ayana is about half the size, having lost the eastern half. Mekoth's is half, just shrinking from the edges.

The big island with the Source and Meneth has mountains now, and there are several small mountain island scattered in that area.

And about a 10th of the mountains of Mekoth are missing, in the west, so moving north/south is easier.

[Menolly]

Hmmm... Yeah, without Prophets at the start, I'm not sure how you want to work Revelations. You won't be revealing yourselves to anyone before Turn 1. So "Revelations" is probably not the right word. Just do whatever. Greet each other? Post your thoughts as you glance over the world, learning what I've posted in Background? Any other ideas?

From what I have had in mind from the start, not a problem for me either. A different approach than I have done before, but we'll see how it works.

And my sincere thanks to the Narie cartographer!!

[Menolly]

So the new map won't be coming until the weekend. I'm not sure I should say who, since it might make him feel pressured, but I've never make the maps. (Other than the first piece of crap. ) And he can't do it until the weekend. Hopefully, you've got enough to go on for now.

But here's a little more.

The forest on Ayana is about half the size, having lost the eastern half. Mekoth's is half, just shrinking from the edges.

The big island with the Source and Meneth has mountains now, and there are several small mountain island scattered in that area.

And about a 10th of the mountains of Mekoth are missing, in the west, so moving north/south is easier.

hmm...
Interesting.

With this detail and what is posted in the background thread, do you still want our prolegomena of our Incarnations to the realms around Narie tomorrow? Or may we wait to see the map before posting?

[The Illuminati]

It was asked before I thought it might need to be addressed... I don't care if you play without a Prophet. Chances are, if you find some area or group that seems to like you, and you spend at least a bit of time and power there, a Prophet will come along. And I guess you could use power for the specific purpose of finding someone who would gladly become your Prophet, which would make it happen more quickly.

But you could also just jump around the map, acting here and there. In which case, a Prophet is unlikely. But how you want to go about playing is your business. If you think there's an advantage to not having a Prophet, or waiting to get one later, or whatever, feel free. Imaginative play can bring success in any number of ways.

Just to be clear on this, without a prophet, or without manifesting and directly speaking to some of your followers, you can earn their favor, and they'll probably start to worship you in thanks, but you can have no kind of practical influence on the shape of things. You can't communicate your dogma to them, go to war with anybody else intentionally (you can, of course, be attacked), etc.

Which, of course, doesn't mean you can't be subtle and nudge them in the direction you want anyway. But it's certainly a much different style of play. In fact, that becomes MORE work for the GM, since you would have to play all of the followers, who would be making decisions on what they suspect their gods want, instead of what their gods ordered them to do.

[Menolly]

Also, per the rules (as I discussed privately with Odin earlier), no prophet = no non-DRP actions. So while you are at 1 DRP, without a prophet you would be limited to one divine action only.

At least, that is how I am interpreting this.

[Han-shan]

It was asked before I thought it might need to be addressed... I don't care if you play without a Prophet. Chances are, if you find some area or group that seems to like you, and you spend at least a bit of time and power there, a Prophet will come along. And I guess you could use power for the specific purpose of finding someone who would gladly become your Prophet, which would make it happen more quickly.

But you could also just jump around the map, acting here and there. In which case, a Prophet is unlikely. But how you want to go about playing is your business. If you think there's an advantage to not having a Prophet, or waiting to get one later, or whatever, feel free. Imaginative play can bring success in any number of ways.

Just to be clear on this, without a prophet, or without manifesting and directly speaking to some of your followers, you can earn their favor, and they'll probably start to worship you in thanks, but you can have no kind of practical influence on the shape of things. You can't communicate your dogma to them, go to war with anybody else intentionally (you can, of course, be attacked), etc.

Which, of course, doesn't mean you can't be subtle and nudge them in the direction you want anyway. But it's certainly a much different style of play. In fact, that becomes MORE work for the GM, since you would have to play all of the followers, who would be making decisions on what they suspect their gods want, instead of what their gods ordered them to do.

Let's take this scenario. Erd, God of the Earth, finds someone, and gives him Earth Affinity. That's cool. And the power comes with a bit of knowledge about Erd. Maybe Erd gives him a quick rundown of dogma. Is that person gonna immediately worship Erd? Maybe. Certainly possible. I might. But will the rest of the city? Will they all just up and fall to their knees? (Get it? Up and fall? heh) Well, if this guy does lots of good stuff for months and years, always preaching about Erd, it might happen.

But if this guy never hears from Erd again, he might become less enthusiastic about it all. Still doing earth-things, but not so much preaching. And nobody else sees anything else, because Erd went to another city right after giving that lone guy Affinity. How many worshipers will Erd have in a year?

But if Erd keeps putting power into that area, giving more people Affinity; or making the earth easier to plow, or more fertile; or making people healthier if they dig their hands into the earth every day; or whatever... the guy is gonna be more enthusiastic about Erd. And preach more. And everybody else is gonna see what's going on, and believe, and worship.

Also, per the rules (as I discussed privately with Odin earlier), no prophet = no non-DRP actions. So while you are at 1 DRP, without a prophet you would be limited to one divine action only.

At least, that is how I am interpreting this.

Yup. Hey, deities don't show up somewhere and, BOOM, they automatically get a bunch of worshipers, and people just do what they say without demonstrations of power. You want me to worship you?? Give me a reason!! You think I'm gonna build you a church if you haven't done more than a token show of power in the area?

And if you have done more than a token show, if you've done various things for the people for a time, you're likely to find a Prophet. And the Prophet will say, "Hey! Our Goddess wants us to build a church in her honor." And the people will say, "Sure! She's made our lives so much better, we'd be fools not to."

[The Illuminati]

Oh yeah, "build a church" is pretty normal for people to do, if all they know is "Erd gave that one dude affinity, and that one dude used it to make the city better." And I guess I can give the guy a general purpose of "make the city better" when I grant him affinity.

But what about stuff like, "Hey, a whole bunch of you get on some rickety boats and head over to the mainland to preach Erd to those godless heathens!" Can you include that kind of instruction with someone when you grant him affinity? What about after you've granted affinity? Can you suddenly give all the people on five islands the urge to build some giant honking stone ships? Something they've never done before?

Absolutely, without a prophet, you can slowly grow your influence, get people to know you and be thankful to you, probably worship you. But you can't get them to do any kind of useful strategic moves on your behalf. They're just kinda easing along their own paths.

[balon!]

Will we start with a basic number of followers? Or even one?

[Han-shan]

You won't start with any. And you won't lose your godhood if you don't gain any immediately. I'd say you have at least a few turns. You get a certain amount of power just by being here. Those who can gain power by being worshiped get a minimum amount of power even without being worshiped. For a short time, anyway. Use it wisely.

[The Illuminati]

Will we know how long "a little while" is? One would assume that if we showed up with some amount of power, and it's enough to keep us alive for a bit, we could tell when the juice was about to be done?

[Han-shan]

I'll say a year. There's something to be said for natural cycles, I suppose. If you have not gained a single follower in four turns, you are out.


Hey, everybody PM me their revelation-thingies. I'm not sure I'm explaining the not-entirely-solidified idea of Vanir perfectly. I can only assume some of you are writing things that won't work, so let's get it straightened out before we begin.

I don't see why we can't get all started by Sunday. Revs posted and deadline set. If we can swing revs by Sunday, and everybody's feeling clear on things, deadline will be Friday.