Oh, btw...

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:48 am

The Human Torch was killed by Annihilus. Funny, isn't it?, that nobody seems to care. Deaths are so silly. FF #600 will come out in a year, and it's assumed he'll return then. Whatever.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:13 am

I got the issue (587?) a few weeks back. It came sealed in a blue bag. Mine is still sealed. Kinda makes me wonder why I bought it; must be 'cause I have all the issues from 114 on up.......actually, I figured they'd print an unsealed 2nd printing, which they did this week. The stupid thing is they 'killed' Reed and Doc Doom back around #381, and didn't bring them back until 406 or so, so this isn't even a new idea for the FF.

Post by **aTOMiC** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:25 am

I coincidentally lost my interest in the FF comic about the same time the first abomination...er...movie was released. Well maybe it was a bit before that but that film and it's only slightly better sequel really didn't help matters. I'm old school when it comes to the FF. I don't much care for the direction the comic has been going the past decade or so.

Nuff said.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:29 am

You know, Reed, Sue and Ben have had extended periods of absence from the team; I don't think Johnny has ever been gone for more than an issue. Maybe Marvel figured he needed some time off.

Post by **sgt.null** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:58 pm

why replace him with Spider-Man?

oh yeah, sales.

is the original Human Torch alive again?

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:07 pm

What, the android? He's the Vision now.

Post by **sgt.null** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:49 pm

no. that was disproved years ago. the Human Torch android came back in West Coast Avengers and died in the Invaders revamp. (the one with Thin Man and Blazing SKull)

Post by **dANdeLION** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:19 am

Disproved? It was complete fiction to begin with.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:34 am

It was a stupid retcon. Shoulda left it the Vision.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:40 am

The West Coast Avenger's ruination of the Vision happened 20--something years ago. Last time I looked, he was back to his original self. IIRC, he is the original Human Torch, one taken out of a parallel time stream by Kang and left for Ultron (or was it the Thinker?) to modify into the Vision. As far as I know, all that West Coast foolishness has been ignored ever since that comic run ended.

Post by **sgt.null** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:47 am

___ wrote:The West Coast Avenger's ruination of the Vision happened 20--something years ago. Last time I looked, he was back to his original self. IIRC, he is the original Human Torch, one taken out of a parallel time stream by Kang and left for Ultron (or was it the Thinker?) to modify into the Vision. As far as I know, all that West Coast foolishness has been ignored ever since that comic run ended.

thanks for the heads up - looked it up.

The robot Ultron is the creator of the Vision, a type of android he calls a "synthezoid", for use against Ultron's own creator, Dr. Henry Pym (Ant-Man/Giant Man/Goliath/Yellowjacket) and Pym's wife, Janet van Dyne (the Wasp) of the superhero team the Avengers. Ultron sends his new servant to lead the Avengers into a trap. The Wasp is the first to encounter the synthezoid, and describes it as a "vision" while trying to escape. Adopting the name, the Vision is convinced by the Avengers to turn against Ultron.[2] After learning how Ultron created him using the brain patterns of then-deceased Simon Williams (Wonder Man), the Vision becomes a member of the team.[3] The team initially believes the Vision's body was created from that of the android original Human Torch.[4] The Avengers later are told that the time lord Immortus used the power of the Forever Crystal to split the original Human Torch into two entities - one body remained the original Torch while Ultron rebuilt the other as the Vision - as part of his plan to nurture a relationship for the Scarlet Witch that would prevent her from having any children, as her power level meant that any offspring she might have could threaten the cosmic beings of the Marvel Universe

I actually prefer the original story line. that the Vision was created using Hammond's body and Wonder Man provided the brain patterns.

I have the '82 miniseries and feel it still holds up well.

marvel1980s.blogspot.com/2009/12/1982-vison-and-scarlet-witch.html

i liked having Magneto, Scarlet WItch, Vision, Wizzer, Miss America, Wonder Man, Grim Reaper, Quicksilver, Crystal, Inhumans, Nuklon all related.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:44 am

Not that this will surprise anyone, but having read FF 587, I noticed that we never see the Torch take the fatal blow, never see him fall; we only see the Thing's reactions as he watches the Torch's 'final' moments. In #588, Reed looks through the portal, and sees Annihilus on the other side, holding up Johnny's shirt. I don't know why they bothered making it ambiguous; we've seen comic book heroes get hit with everything up to and including nuclear weapons and come back before.

Post by **sgt.null** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:29 am

it was for a sales spike. and they got coverage in the media. not as much as when they killed Cap, but more than usual.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:38 pm

No shit, Sherlock. That's what comics have devolved into, publicity stunts to grab the attention of collectors who aren't buying the book. DC killed Superman and Batman and Flash for sure, and probably a few Green Lanterns, too. Marvel took out Iron Man, Spiderman, Captain America, Captain Marvel, Phoenix, Mr. Fantastic, Warlock and who remembers who else. It's nothing new, and certainly not a revelation (sort of like null's posting garbage to continue this discussion, when everyone else is done talking about it). And, with the exception of Captain Marvel, they always come back. It's annoying to the fans who do buy the book it happens in, but 2 years from now, Johnny will be back, they'll have already re-renumbered FF at 600, and we'll forget all about it until about issue 770, when Sue gets "killed". After all, it is her turn next, right?

Post by **dANdeLION** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:07 pm

Anyway, FF #1 (589) should be a May 2011 issue. November 2011 marks the 50th anniversary of the FF, so FF #7 (595) should commemorate it. Marvel probably won't bring Johnny back any earlier than #600, but if they do, I think #595 would be the time to do it.

Post by **The Sorcerer King** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:25 am

Finding Johnny Storm survived won't be a surprise. But finding out Four Freedom's Plaza is actually a Citadel-class spaceship?

Shocking!

Post by **sgt.null** » Tue May 22, 2012 5:03 am

dANdeLION wrote:No shit, Sherlock.

thought I'd ask you - are you reading the FF series? I have some issues and liked the overall basis of the storyline. due to costs I may just get the first twelve issues, as the storyline shifts after that.

I was a fan of Byrne's work with the Fantastic Four, in fact #250 is the only issue I have. but given the chance I'd love to collect his run.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:37 am

Yeah, I get FF. I get Fantastic Four, too. I could quit FF, but the stories tie into the Fantastic Four, so I haven't dropped it. The last two Fantastic Four have were really good, as was the issue of Spider-man that the Torch was his roommate in. My favorite Byrne issues are 205-215 (when he was just the artist), and 232-265(ish). It went downhill after that; I think I cancelled my subscription a few months before his last issue.

Post by **sgt.null** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:38 pm

i like the FF when they go cosmic/negative zone. and when the family dynamic is played up.

and i love the Intelligencia and would like to see them more. someone needs to make the Wizard a better foe for Reed.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Oh, btw...

Oh, btw...