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This is as good a place as any to have this discussion. Is it ever 'not problematic' to have a rape survivor be permanently damaged and reduced to a husk of what they once were? Isn't that a problem in real life (though granted, not the only problem with rape)? Throughout the series, rape is never presented as just being 'x' or just 'y', so why is it a problem as 'z'? Wouldn't that also make Lena's behaviour in The Power that Preserves also problematic?Murrin wrote: Sinn becomes very problematic in TCG, by the way. Really bad move by Erikson, having a rape survivor be permanently damaged by the rape such that she's completely unable to function and is reduced to nothing more than a primal force with no humanity left in her.
Stonny comes to mind as another example.Murrin wrote:How much rape do we actually see in the series, where we see what happens to the victim afterward? Sinn is the only one I recall, and that's really the point of what I was saying.
If you portray rape as something that irrevocably damages people and makes them unable to function as a person, you're removing the victim's agency, dehumanising them, making "rape victim" the label that defines them. Yes, it damages people, but it doesn't have to define them. If you make that step, you're telling actual rape victims that the crime commited against them is more important than they are.
Uh-uh, when Stormy and Gessler try and stop her from ascending the spire, her humanity is openly questioned in the narration.Murrin wrote: Sinn, I don't know, something happened in Y'Ghatan when she was exposed to the inferno, but I dont' think anything in TCG suggests more than that she was an immensely powerful but emotionally crippled child with no real control over her actions.
Think that's a bit of an overstatement of Sinn's lack of humanity...I didn't pay much attention throughout the books to her, but she obviously was pretty driven to save the survivors of Y'Ghatan's inferno. I also remember a scene of her being particularly touchy feely needy with a female marine, in an uncomfortable scene that, nonetheless, shows her as having need for compassion. Her cruelty more seemed to develop over time...Murrin wrote:Yeah, Onos Toolan's reward in the end was him, his wife and his children being brought back to life.
Sinn, I don't know, something happened in Y'Ghatan when she was exposed to the inferno, but I dont' think anything in TCG suggests more than that she was an immensely powerful but emotionally crippled child with no real control over her actions.
Sinn becomes very problematic in TCG, by the way. Really bad move by Erikson, having a rape survivor be permanently damaged by the rape such that she's completely unable to function and is reduced to nothing more than a primal force with no humanity left in her.
I think Lena is very different from Sinn. Early in LFB, we get signals that she does see herself as a victim of Covenant and has the very oft-noted mentality of sexual abuse victims of guilt and unwillingness to reveal that they have been attacked. And, of course, she wants Covenant's message to the Lords to be delivered. This shows that, while she suffers damage, she is in many ways very much intact, and can make a "brave sacrifice" of herself for the Land (though I suppose that self sacrifice could be questioned as well). And I believe that in TPTP, there is some point - possibly when she discovers Elena is dead - that she basically becomes rather rational, sane, and hateful of Covenant: perhaps still damaged, but not really acting as strange as Sinn.Wouldn't that also make Lena's behaviour in The Power that Preserves also problematic?
Besides what has been said, Seren Pedac...I actually remember a lot more of the immediate afterward of the trauma for her and Stonny than I do for Sinn, which is to say I don't remember whether we actually see her dealing with it.How much rape do we actually see in the series, where we see what happens to the victim afterward? Sinn is the only one I recall, and that's really the point of what I was saying.
Cambo wrote: Dammit. Does anyone understand what happened there?