Where did I go wrong!!!!

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:20 am

My 8 yo daughter said she wants to go to church!!!!

Apparently, it was entirely her own idea. While home yesterday (she lives with her mom), as they were eating dinner, she said she wants to go to/learn about religion. Religion hadn't even been the topic of conversation. I picked up her and her sister a little later, and she told me the same thing. Out of nothing other than curiosity, I wondered how it came about, and asked if they were learning about churches, or reformations, or whatever in school, or if another kid was talking about church. It would seem not.

But a few months ago, the girls were going tubing with friends. A brother and sister are in their respective classes. Those friends were going directly from church, and would not have time to drive all the way from church, to my kids' home, to tubing. So the girls went with them. And I guess it's been bouncing around in my 8 yo's head since. And she has asked Christy a couple of very general questions now and then.

So she's going with those friends this Sunday. Very interesting!

Post by **aliantha** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:35 pm

This will be an interesting experiment, Fist. This could go one of two ways: either she'll demand to join a church so she can be just like all her friends, or she'll spend several years looking for a denomination she totally agrees with and then finally goes agnostic like her dad.

I mean, I suppose she could find a faith that resonates with her and join it, and become a born-again <insert name of faith here>. But given her lack of indoctrination at a young age, I'm betting against it.

Post by **Fire Daughter** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:00 pm

Oh I bet Mom would have alot to say about this!

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:15 pm

aliantha wrote:This will be an interesting experiment, Fist. This could go one of two ways: either she'll demand to join a church so she can be just like all her friends, or she'll spend several years looking for a denomination she totally agrees with and then finally goes agnostic like her dad.

I mean, I suppose she could find a faith that resonates with her and join it, and become a born-again <insert name of faith here>. But given her lack of indoctrination at a young age, I'm betting against it.

Who can say? Under the same circumstances, whatever those circumstances are, I imagine some people have a stronger pull/desire/feeling for it than others. My other two kids, who are four and six years older, haven't ever asked, and they've all been raised the same. We'll see.

Fire Daughter wrote:Oh I bet Mom would have alot to say about this!

Right?

Post by **Vraith** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:46 pm

I don't know, Fist...sounds like a chip off the old block.
I assume from your posts, you don't just take peoples word for truth...so it's your fault if she won't just take yours!

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:37 pm

That's fine. I haven't given her any of my truths in this area. I want her to be able to choose for herself.

At least as much as one can do such a thing. We live in the USA, which is overwhelmingly Christian. "In God We Trust" is on the money, and "One nation, under God" is in the Pledge. No matter how one tries to spin it, thost things mean the God of the Bible, as was intended.

At the same time, she sees every Sylvia Brown book at her house, because her mother reads them all. And she never hears anything about religion from her father. How much influence do those things give? No more than any other child gets, and less than a lot. My kids are as free as I could manage.

And one has asked my wife how you go about praying, and now wants to learn at Sunday School. I'm as proud of her as I could possibly be. Both because she's thinking and asking questions, and because she's confident enough to say what she wants to do.

Post by **Cambo** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:27 am

Fist and Faith wrote:I'm as proud of her as I could possibly be. Both because she's thinking and asking questions, and because she's confident enough to say what she wants to do.

Hmph, all very well. You didn't allow me such freedom of expression in the depression thread.

Seriously, my parents raised me in the same way, and I'm as grateful as you are proud.

Post by **Linna Heartbooger** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:54 am

Fist and Faith wrote:Where did I go wrong!!!!

*pretends this is not in jest / rhetorical question*

Well, let's see... did you make sure she knew she was loved? Protect her? Give her good things? Listen to her as if what she said mattered? Allow her to see that her choices had meaning?

If so, THERE'S your problem, right there!

Seriously, it's the risk all GOOD agnostic & atheist parents take... my dad included! If you show your child she's loved, she just might think that the idea of a heavenly father sounds just splendid!

Btw, was she the one who wrote that poem, "White," when the teacher assigned students to write a poem about a color?[/quote]

[Edited: added "in jest"]

Post by **Avatar** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:56 am

Hahahahaha.

That's funny Fist. I guess it's the same as when preachers children go off the rails, but in reverse.

Most amusing.

But yep, it's the risk you take. Nobody really gets a say in how their kids turn out. Oh, they try...

Kahlil Gibran wrote:Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

Good luck.

--A

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:35 am

Just in case anyone's not sure... The title of the thread is a joke. I don't think anything has gone or is wrong with this development. I will always fully support any decision any of my kids make regarding religion.

Lina Heartlistener wrote:Btw, was she the one who wrote that poem, "White," when the teacher assigned students to write a poem about a color?

Uh... Kind of amazing that someone remembers that. Heh. No, Lisa, now 12, wrote the poem. Shaina just asked to go to church.

Post by **SerScot** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:19 pm

F&F,

Fist and Faith wrote:My 8 yo daughter said she wants to go to church!!!!

Apparently, it was entirely her own idea. While home yesterday (she lives with her mom), as they were eating dinner, she said she wants to go to/learn about religion. Religion hadn't even been the topic of conversation. I picked up her and her sister a little later, and she told me the same thing. Out of nothing other than curiosity, I wondered how it came about, and asked if they were learning about churches, or reformations, or whatever in school, or if another kid was talking about church. It would seem not.

But a few months ago, the girls were going tubing with friends. A brother and sister are in their respective classes. Those friends were going directly from church, and would not have time to drive all the way from church, to my kids' home, to tubing. So the girls went with them. And I guess it's been bouncing around in my 8 yo's head since. And she has asked Christy a couple of very general questions now and then.

So she's going with those friends this Sunday. Very interesting!

Hey, kids think. We've been taking my children to church on Sunday their entire lives. A few months back my 7 year old daughter, while we were on our way to church, asked, "Daddy... is the Bible true?"

I'm an unabashed Christian Theist but I was delighted to hear her ask this question. I responded, "Well, that's a very good question and it's something you will have to answer for yourself as you get older." Unquestioning faith isn't worth much in my humble opinion.

Post by **rusmeister** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:40 pm

Fist and Faith wrote: I will always fully support any decision any of my kids make regarding religion.

Hey, Fist!

What if she becomes an Orthodox (or Catholic) Chestertonian? How about having me for a daughter?

Seriously, I actually do have faith in your integrity to support her encountering the best, and not only the worst, of faith.

Post by **TheFallen** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:13 pm

rusmeister wrote:
Fist and Faith wrote: I will always fully support any decision any of my kids make regarding religion.
Hey, Fist!
What if she becomes an Orthodox (or Catholic) Chestertonian? How about having me for a daughter?

Seriously, I actually do have faith in your integrity to support her encountering the best, and not only the worst, of faith.

Hey hey, Rus is back and things are springing to life again. Rus, you're obviously the Close's equivalent of the rainy season on the Serengeti. Avatar will be the most pleased, now he can stop drumming his fingers in frustrated boredom.

Can I be the first to start the "Rusmeister to become Fist and Faith's adopted daughter" campaign? I can just picture Fist dressing you up in cute little frilly dresses and perching you on his knee as weighty metaphysical matters get debated.

It's a win-win situation... what's not to like?

Post by **rusmeister** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:49 pm

Or maybe I should do the voice of James Earl Jones and say, "If YOU will not be turned to the Dark Side, the perhaps SHE - WILL!"

Post by **Cybrweez** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:54 pm

that was awesome rus.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:57 pm

Thanks, rus.

TheFallen, please stop posting now. Honestly, folks, what's going on around here?? First Cambo's link to Satan, and now TF has me dressing up rus. Am I too nice a mod?

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:12 pm

On a more serious note... Even if you weren't serious (though I imagine you were to some degree), I don't think of religion in general as "the dark side." I suppose there are some religions that I'd consider evil, but, for the most part, I think it's more about how individuals practice whatever their religion is. But if Shaina finds what she's looking for in religion, I'll be thrilled for her. As I am for anyone else who finds what they need in religion. The facts that none I've heard of offer me what I need, and I don't have reason to believe any of them are accurate whether or not they do offer what I need, doesn't mean I think of religion as a bad thing.

Post by **Worm of Despite** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:07 pm

You weakling. You were supposed to make everyone within your sphere of influence an atheist, Fist. You have failed our people.

Go now. Go. Come back in 2.3 months as a prodigal son.

On a serious note: if it's her inclination then it's definitely the best possible thing. Whatever gives her hope/comfort and sense of place.

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:29 pm

It's interesting.
You're in a unique position of influencing which type of church your kids might go to but , am I reading this right? you yourself are an atheist?

You didn't mention if it was Christian or Jewish of Buddhist.....
(I suppose the last two don't call them "churches")
Which church are you letting her attend/learn about?
Because once they get into it they might not get out.

Personally I hope it's not a Catholic one.
Women are treated as second class and the systematic and protected widespread rape of children.....fun times....

Is there a nice normal Christian church that just teaches the lessons of Jesus but leaves all the crazy bigoted narrow minded arrogant stuff behind?

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:30 pm

High Lord Tolkien wrote:It's interesting.
You're in a unique position of influencing which type of church your kids might go to but , am I reading this right? you yourself are an atheist?

You didn't mention if it was Christian or Jewish of Buddhist.....
(I suppose the last two don't call them "churches")
Which church are you letting her attend/learn about?
Because once they get into it they might not get out.

Personally I hope it's not a Catholic one.
Women are treated as second class and the systematic and protected widespread rape of children.....fun times....

Is there a nice normal Christian church that just teaches the lessons of Jesus but leaves all the crazy bigoted narrow minded arrogant stuff behind?

I don't know. I'm pretty sure it's not Orthodox, and what else matters? (Probably the main reason I started this thread was so someone would ask that, and I could give that answer. Thank you very much, HLT!

) But no, I don't know. I guess I'll call and ask.

I just called, but nobody home. I'll keep you posted.

Personally, I'd most like if she wanted to go to a Unitarian Universalist place, but I'm sure that's not where the family will be taking her.

Lord Foul wrote:On a serious note: if it's her inclination then it's definitely the best possible thing. Whatever gives her hope/comfort and sense of place.

Precisely.

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