How was the universe first created?

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:29 pm

Yes I do actually...

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:02 pm

This just in: The universe as we know it wasn't exactly created. It was actually sitting in a beaker in God's laboritory, when He absentmindedly knocked it off His desk, and it spewed out all over the place. All time as we know it has only been a few seconds for God, who is even now reaching for His mop to clean up the mess. Thusly, the universe will end in a few millenia, depending on how absorbant the mop head is.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:06 pm

Darth Revan wrote: There is no God, he cannot exist. There is no prove in his existence.

You have a child and a kitten.

The child lives in your house & you do what you can to give him your best shot. He goes to school, you talk with him, and send him off to college.

The kitten gets fed, the litter is changed.

The kitten will always show a sort of 'love' toward you. You feed it. You keep the litterbox clean. But there is no comparison to that of your child graduating from college & telling you that they are proud of who you are and what you've done and that he loves you.

If God were to "prove" his existence, he would ruin a plan so great that it would dissolve the power of the child & reduce it to that of the kitten. Free will is to love or hate God as we please. You are free to disbelieve. It doesn't make him go away, it just makes him sad.

There are proofs that he exists, but people deny them. If I say, good and evil make no sense if the world was made merely by chance, then I'm sure you can come up with an interesting argument. You have chosen to disbelieve the intangible proofs and demand tangible ones. But even Jesus Christ was crucified and he performed miracles of tangible proof. That got him killed, because they still refused to believe.

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:10 pm

There are no facts in his existence.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:17 pm

Darth Revan wrote:There are no facts in his existence.

There is no proof against him either.

Post by **hierachy** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:18 pm

That is my point too, I remain open minded on the subject

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:21 pm

Zephalephelah wrote:
Darth Revan wrote: There is no God, he cannot exist. There is no prove in his existence.
But even Jesus Christ was crucified and he performed miracles of tangible proof. That got him killed, because they still refused to believe.

Yeah, the Pharisees once asked Jesus for "proof" that he was who he said he was. His reply was something like "What more proof do you need? You've already seen enough and you still don't believe. I will give you no more 'proof'".

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:21 pm

Zephalephelah wrote: There is no proof against him either.

I think that there is no proof against him is prove against him, because there is no prove at all.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:22 pm

Darth Revan wrote:
Zephalephelah wrote: There is no proof against him either.
I think that there is no proof against him is prove against him, because there is no prove at all.

There is no "proof" of any reality at all before I was born. Yet somehow, I have learned to believe it exists....

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:26 pm

Darth Revan wrote:
Zephalephelah wrote: There is no proof against him either.
I think that there is no proof against him is prove against him, because there is no prove at all.

Like I said, this is what freewill is about. You are free to disbelieve or free to hate God. Better this than forcing us to love him as most unbelievers consider heaven to be like (singing to God blah blah forever). But if earth with its evil has beauty worth seeing, then think of heaven which will have no evil. It is beyond comprehension!

But this is the benefit of believing. I have hope. I have the hope that when I die I will go to a better place. You have no hope at all. You'll merely cease to be in your view. Now what kind of life is that? A life without hope for something better. I'd not trade for your view in a million years, or even just 72.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:34 pm

At any rate, by far, most of the world believes in religion of some sort, and 1/3 of the world believes in God whether they call him Jehovah, God, or Allah. Some of the highest I.Q. scientists of history believed in God.

I would urge you to consider hope. It's a much nicer way to live when you have no strong fear of death except the possible pain of it. When I see something extremely beautiful like a sunset hitting on a moutain range, I can say "praise God that is beautiful". It's something akin to exclaiming "Melekurian Abatha but that's a sight". I mean, how do you enjoy anything when you can only share it with yourself? Things of such beauty should be announced to the heavens in appreciation.

You have the freewill to disbelieve. I can do nothing but express what makes me believe. I've heard no better story. It gives me hope to go on every day. It is a good thing to have hope.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:37 pm

I agree. Without hope, we'd all be....well, hopeless.

Post by **hierachy** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:39 pm

that we would be, well said...

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:43 pm

I wish I could believe in God, but I don't. And I'm not hopeless about when I die. I'm 17 and really can be bothered do think about what happens after I die. i'll think about it in 30 years

Post by **hierachy** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:44 pm

Darth watch out for that bus!!!!

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:51 pm

Darth Revan wrote:I wish I could believe in God, but I don't. And I'm not hopeless about when I die. I'm 17 and really can be bothered do think about what happens after I die. i'll think about it in 30 years

Not to be judgmental, because I'm talking about myself, but when I was 17 I thought I was the anti-christ. So did Sting, while filming "Dune", maybe that's why he gave his villian a good performance. I enjoyed horror movies, pentagrams, spells, and said God Dammit and did a lot of bad things. I did a lot of drugs and beat a lot of people up and I didn't have a job either.

But since you are 17, you have a long time to think about it, should you have the common luck to live quite a while longer. So, I'm just asking you to think about it.

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:53 pm

I will, there's a lot I have yet experience to think about such matters probably.

Post by **Loredoctor** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:58 pm

While I don't agree with everything Zeph says, I too have recently gained some sense of religion and can understand what he means we talks about 'Hope'. However, if I may give some advice to everyone - we should leave this topic alone considering that these sort of topics produce flame wars.

Post by **hierachy** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:07 pm

I don't think we should back away from disscusions just because they are contraversial. But we do need to aproach them with care as peoples beliefs can be easily offended with subjects as potent as this.

Post by **Loredoctor** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:08 pm

True.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

How was the universe first created?