Does the Universe ever end?

Post by **Revan** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:54 pm

But I'm also wondering how was this all created. But I think humans just aren't smart enough to contemplate such questions.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:24 pm

Cromas Tummins wrote:I get the feeling that it is no mere coincidence that objects in the universe tend to take on the shape of a sphere. I suspect that far beyond the reaches of our ability to comprehend, the universe is most likely the interior of a tremendous sphere. Or some such crap.

What's outside of the sphere?

When you try to contain infinity, your mind will not accept it. You must accept infinity & see that "there is no spoon".

Post by **hierachy** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:35 pm

lol, but it was in my hand...

Post by **Revan** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:37 pm

Post by **hierachy** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:36 pm

It is very nice to see that im not the only one on the watch interested in this subject...

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:12 pm

Hierachy wrote:It is very nice to see that im not the only one on the watch interested in this subject...

You're not the only one talking about it. That doesn't mean you're not the only one interested in it. For myself, I believe the universe is infinite, as we understand infinity. Unfortunately, our understanding of infinity is not infinite.

Post by **The Leper Fairy** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:26 pm

But... it can't be infinite... that's not possible... but it can't just end that's not possible either... this makes my brain hurt.

Post by **hierachy** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:28 pm

maybe you should stick to snowboarding...

joking... yes, it is hard to comprehend

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:08 am

Hierachy wrote:maybe you should stick to snowboarding...

LOL!

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:10 am

The Leper Fairy wrote:But... it can't be infinite... that's not possible... but it can't just end that's not possible either... this makes my brain hurt.

I believe humans aren't capable of having the answers to such an impossible questions. Questions such as this are beyond our thinking mental limit.... IMO anyways.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:49 pm

Oh I dunno. Take timelessness for example. If hope is right & heaven exists, then immortality begins, not because we live forever without dying, but rather that time was a creation and heaven is outside of it.

In our own lives we can look into the past and revisit moments as memories. And de-ja-vu often hits us. The phone is about to ring and we know it, etc. So we can see fragments of the future also. But to God everything is the present. Everything is happening all at once. Several seconds ago you were reading "oh I dunno". In many more seconds, you will read "but time is an illusion to which we are bound". To God, he can "remember" when we were just babies because to him we are babies. To God, can "see" that we will die, because to him we have just died. He can see when we get married regardless of time. IT is always happening. When we say Goddammit, it never ceases. It is always happening. It is a part of us. But time is an illusion to which we are bound.

Imagine a record player, those of you who are old enough to do so...

The needle is in the middle of the record's life. We've heard part of the record. We are hearing where the record is now playing. We will hear where the needle will be and that will be the future. Now, instead, expand the needle so that it plays 9 grooves instead of one. For awhile, it will sound like nonsense. It will be difficult to understand the words and the music. But over time, as you get used to hearing a wider space of "the present", you will become accustomed to breaking through part of the illusion and feeling the recent past and near future as part of your present.

I doubt that I'll ever be able to listen to all the grooves at once & understand much of anything from it, but I can break away from the traditional comprehension of the illusion to be able to live in a perpetual state of de-ja-vu and recent memory. It is much like driving a car. You see what will be before you get there. You see where you've been by looking in the rearview mirror. But you don't see much and you can't see past the horizons. But if you understand what you are doing, you can apply it in other areas which will heighten your perceptions of the illusion that time was, is, will be. I'm not suggesting that time isn't real, but that the single groove of the present isn't as narrow as everyone thinks it has to be.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:57 pm

Zephalephelah wrote:Now, instead, expand the needle so that it plays 9 grooves instead of one. For awhile, it will sound like nonsense. It will be difficult to understand the words and the music. But over time, as you get used to .....

See, that's the problem with discussing time. We are creatures designed to live inside the confines of it. Therefore, when we try to imagine things outside of time, we still put the limitations of time in our descriptions. If you had the ability to hear several things at once, all occuring at different "times", I am convinced that it will NOT take time to orient youself to it. By the very logic of the statement, time will no longer apply. Man, this time stuff gives me headaches. That's why I only listen to cd's nowadays.

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:01 pm

I do not think that there is a god, but if there is, I think he is beyond our Comprehension; so we cannot presume to guess what "God" think of us.... But if god does exist (he does not IMHO) II guess Zeph is right

hehe, kidding...

Post by **hierachy** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:05 pm

that is an interesting theory on the nature of time, but I am not sure I agree with it. Take for example someone traveling at near lightspeed, the ratio of time between that person and an observer is different, and the observer will age faster than the traveler. Taking that on board, anyone looking in from "outside" of time would have to take into account that time itself is not a constant even where it exists. Now think of someone traveling at the speed of light, to the observer they can only go 1 light year every, you guessed it, year. But from the travelers point of view, they have the possibility of being anywhere at any "time". I'm not sure where I'm going with this, just thought I'd throw something into the mix...

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:07 pm

What Hierachy said.....

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:27 pm

Darth Revan wrote:What Hierachy said.....

I think that it should be pointed out that the theory of relativity is still only a theory....

Post by **hierachy** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:31 pm

I think there have been experimants done that prove time is relative...

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:55 pm

Hierachy wrote:I think there have been experimants done that prove time is relative...

Yes, but I haven't gone near the speed of light so I don't know this for sure.

One thing I've thought about is that light is both waves and protons. Therefore it has mass. We say that as a thing nears the speed of light, time slows down. After the speed of light, time stops. So if light is going the speed of light & time is stopped then how does it move?

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:02 pm

er....yes...I understand completely

Post by **hierachy** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:07 pm

ahh, that is where a common misunderstanding is made...

speed= distance/time (where velocity is a constant 3x10^8ms^-1)

therfore if time=0 distance= infinity

this means that you can travel an infinate distance in literally "no time" giving you the possibility of being anywhere instantly.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Does the Universe ever end?