Re-reading 2012

[deer of the dawn]

Anybody else starting the Last Chronicles over again this year?

I'm up to where Linden wakes up on Kevin's Watch. It's been long enough that I have forgotten most of the details, like I have no idea who she'll meet first, which is good- I waited long enough for it to really be fresh again. I am excited to roam the Land again!!

[wayfriend]

Alas, I won't be joining you.

Is this your first re-read?

Suggest reading in the dissection forum as you go along. This can open your eyes to some aspects of the story that you might otherwise not notice.

[deer of the dawn]

Ok, thanks. It's my 3rd time, actually, but it was at least a couple years ago my last time through.

[Vulgarian]

Believe it or not, I am a fan of the TCCs on the whole. However, I can certainly identify with some of the criticisms which have been aimed at Runes of the Earth. Inspired by this thread, I’ve just gone through it again to see if the scales would fall from my eyes.
As I remembered, there’s a lot of verbiage in this book which continually sabotages whatever pace the novel might have had.
I know that readers have often criticised SJD for his relentless use of obscure or archaic words throughout this series, but I’ve never had a problem with that, per se; as long as you have recourse to a large dictionary this aspect of the books can be quite entertaining.
Instead, the most profoundly wearing aspect of it all is the manner in which the author insists on narrating the thought processes of his lead character (Linden Avery), as she ruminates, over and over again, on the implications of what has already been said or experienced.
Linden, it seems, is quite capable of re-examining events in her mind for the third or fourth time (along with the reader, who is probably screaming, “We know all this!”), for what seems like hours, during the gaps between one line of a character's dialogue and her response to it. With the possible exception of Anne Rice, only SJD can take a conversation that consists of three or four sentences and force it to occupy three or four pages. By the time any reply has been made, I have long-since forgotten the question. (This hardly matters, I know, given that no one in The Land is capable of giving a straight answer to a straight question; even so, the frequency of these internal resumés becomes increasingly wearisome. )
Occasionally there is a pause in Linden's torturous introspection, during which the plot advances, but these pauses seem to become briefer by the chapter. The tedium of this continual rehashing is bound to exhaust any but the most loyal of fans.
But there is good news:
Quite quickly one becomes accustomed to this and can skim through four or five paragraphs until something new seems to be happening. When you get the hang of this, you will discover that at least twenty-five percent of the prose is unnecessary and that you have gained some extra time in which to do something less exasperating.
Things improve with Fatal Revenant but decline again with book three. Sometimes I wonder if all would be well, if only SJD had an editor who would be prepared to wield his/her blue pencils more bravely.

[Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm]

It may be not a question of bravery, I already stated elsewhere I have problems cutting the text even for the dissections. I'd actually like the books to be longer) I think a better idea may be to make abridged versions, so that people can read less if they like.

[wayfriend]

Welcome to the watch, Vulgarian. It's good to see some new people who jump in with intelligent comments.

I'm coming to the realization that you get out of the Last C's what you bring into it. If you go into it thinking Linden is a tedious whiner, that's what you find. If you go into it seeking action-packed adventure, the non-action pieces are a drag. Not that I think what you just said is wrong ...

[Ananda]

I like Linden and I agree that these books needed some editing. There is so much redundancy that you do find you can easily skim ahead and miss nothing but the repeating of the same things over and over. I *hope* the readers and editor for his new books reads this thread and do a better job being aggressive in taking out all of the tiresome repetition. So, Wayfriend, it is not a matter of liking or disliking the character used as the story vehicle, it is a matter of disliking the writing style and apparent lack of editing.

[Vulgarian]

Hello, Wayfriend and Effaeldm, and thanks.
Yes, I did rather jump in with all guns blazing.
Re, abridged versions of TTCCs:
Unfortunately, I have a serious dislike of abridged books. My favourite novels tend to be ones so big that you could almost use them as furniture. I would have been happy to have read The Illearth War with the “Gildenfire” stuff already in place. If I’m really enjoying a book then I want it to go on for as long as possible, so I’m not usually an impatient reader. Also, battle scenes usually send me into a coma, so I’m a bit unusual there, too (I’ve never managed to watch a single car chase on TV without inadvertently blanking out) So “talky” stuff is fine by me. But obviously I don’t want, or need, to be told the same information over and over again.
Re, Linden:
I like the character of Linden; I almost cheered when she complained about how unnecessarily cryptic everyone she encounters in The Land seems to be.
Even so, I do think that SJD can be excessively self-indulgent where all this blather is concerned, and it really is the job of the editor to rein him in a bit where that’s concerned.
Perhaps he’s too big a deal these days, to be bullied by editors so I agree with Ananda: Let’s hope he reads these threads. Fans are often brutally honest about what they love.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

Hi, Vulgarian, welcome.

I commonly hate the notion of abridging too, but in some cases I feel such measures might've produced better crop than the actual writing (the Wheel of Time series comes to mind...). I harbor no enmity against neither slow-paced talking scenes--provided there's some intriguing content as in the first hundred pages of AATE--nor action sequences. I even like the 'new' Giants which many regard as nothing but boring pack animal substitutes. Obscure/archaic words scarcely pose a problem either. Speaking as someone who has studied four foreign languages (over here, it's mandatory to take classes in at least two) and thinking of starting a fifth, dictionary usage has become a daily habit. Yet repetition seriously plucks at my nerves.

What irked me in ROTE besides this were the eeeendleeesss eating episodes etc. about which I've ranted elsewhere. When one's mainly listening to audio books due to a simple lack of time to peruse paper copies, one can't simply skim over sentences. Hence either hard-handed editing or some abridging might be a fine idea. Starting with the umpteen instances of aliantha and depictions of bleak mountains. Personally I mainly have this issue with ROTE, AATE I was quite comfortable with.

May of course end up reversing some personal opinions after a re-read of the 3rd chrons. Such has happened before. I may listen through the whole lot later this year after I've kicked WOT and Malazan out of the way.

[sindatur]

Hmm...I admit that the endless repetition of certain statements can get old, but, The Chronicles have been like that from the beginning (Out, Leper, Unclean and so forth), and also occurs frequently in the Gap Series (I'm listening to Book 4 of the Gap now during my commute), so, I'm not sure why people point it out as a complaint of how the third Chronicles don't measure up (Though you are definitely not the first ones I've seen make that complaint).

And yea, as Zorm says, The Third Chronicles become more enjoyable on a re-read for many of us. ROTE, I enjoyed the first time, but, enjoyed it more on a re-read, and then of course I re-listened to the entire First and Second Chronicles, plus ROTE and Fatal Revenant prior to listening to AATE (I only had the opportunity to get about 150 pages into AATE paper book before I was able to obtain the Audiobook, which is much easier for me to find time for, since I lsiten on my work commute)

[deer of the dawn]

I also found ROTE better at a 3rd reading. Maybe because I was willing to let things happen in their own time, and maybe I decided that making us wade through Linden's thought process for 3 1/2 pages before she actually does something was SRD's literary vehicle for making us feel her conflict. I'm willing to hang out in the Land long enough for her to make up her mind.

[Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm]

Hello, Vulgarian, didn't mention it was your first post at that moment, only the content)

I'm surprised to hear about disliking abridged versions from the same people who say they'd like to see more shortened versions of the Chrons to start with. What I mean is to have the abridged versions without exactly the repeating things and perhaps some others that were proposed here to be edited out.

So there will be a version completely untouched by editing, except perhaps for mistakes, and the editors will feel free to cut the abridged version whatever needed.

[Vulgarian]

Hello, Effaeldm,
I've been bereft of the internet for about a week - sorry about the delay.

I suppose my dislike of abridged novels is based on the presumption that anything which is deemed to be unnecessary will have been removed before first publication. I tend to agree with those who state that, if the novel doesn't suffer in any way by the process of abridgement, then that's the way it should have been published in the first place.
I think you could make quite a good case for ROTE not having been through a rigorous enough initial editing process before publication.

I don't quite agree with Sindatur, who says that the original chronicles were as guilty of this sin as are the third chronicles. They were certainly as sesquipedalian, which is fine by me, but I also know, thanks to the audio books which I’ve been listening to recently, how much more of a plot there is in earlier instalments such as LFB, TIW and my favourite one, The Wounded Land (the first one I read!) compared to the anaemic storyline of ROTE.

Fatal Revenant is a huge improvement. It almost flounders early on, thanks to what seems to be an interminable and utterly tedious conversation between Findail (I think) and Linden, at the lake above Revelstone.
Once that's out of the way, though, the book starts to rattle along and soon becomes engrossing and exciting and easily on a par with earlier instalments.

Re, the audio books: Like others on these boards, I’ve been reacquainting myself with the older books via an iPod Shuffle. They are a great way to fit such huge stories into a busy day. There are, I think, four different readers that I've come across, and the only one I have a problem with is Scott Brick, who has now been contracted to read new versions of the earlier novels as well as the third chronicles. He also seems to have noticed the constant rehashing of old information in FR and decides to deal with the possible waning interest of readers by making every line into a performance which is as histrionically over the top as possible. It's all a bit too much for me, so I won’t be availing myself of Scott Brick’s take on LFB. The version that I listened to was read by a woman whose name I can't remember, but I thought her reading was spot on.

[Savor Dam]

Fatal Revenant is a huge improvement. It almost flounders early on, thanks to what seems to be an interminable and utterly tedious conversation between Findail (I think) and Linden, at the lake above Revelstone.

Actually, at that point, Findail is an integral part of the Staff of Law and rather indisposed to conversation. Perhaps you meant Esmer?

[Vulgarian]

Thanks, Savor Dan. I had a feeling I had the wrong name there, but knew someone here would have the right info.

[Vulgarian]

Hi, Vulgarian, welcome.

Thanks, Zorm.
I'm incredibly impressed by people who can speak several languages. Did you read the TCCs in English? If so, that's even more impressive.

I thought the "new" giants were pretty much the same as the old ones. I usually welcome the participation of the giants as everyone else is so constantly grim and humourless. Also, I love their names. Although I can't think of a single one off-hand. Happywave Frothpaddler? That's the sort of thing, anyway. You can't be grim with names like that, it would be far too ironic.

[Cambo]

Happywave Frothpaddler!

Welcome Vulgarian, with calls like that you should stick around.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

Did you read the TCCs in English?

I thought the "new" giants were pretty much the same as the old ones. I usually welcome the participation of the giants as everyone else is so constantly grim and humourless. Also, I love their names. Although I can't think of a single one off-hand. Happywave Frothpaddler? That's the sort of thing, anyway. You can't be grim with names like that, it would be far too ironic.

When a language has less than 6 million native speakers, it becomes an obligation to learn at least a single lingua franca. Otherwise the whole Northern Europe outside UK and Ireland would just jump up and down flinging their arms about. At least Swedes and Norwegians can sort of understand one another, but the reserved non-Indo-European forest clans would merely grow more unapproachable. However, when the schooling system presses the importance of language education on kids from early on, you take such studying for granted. Frankly, when I got my opening into the wider world through the net some 13-14 years back, I was surprised to discover that the overseas people usually spoke only English. =) I guess their lessons emphasize other areas like math/sciences more (excuse my ignorance about American schools).

I'm not claiming it's necessarily easy or anything. Has taken me a good ten years of daily English utilization to end up with TCTCs in my shelf (Yes I read them in English. No Finnish translations exist, save for an appallingly sodomized LFB from the late 70's. I learned about that only after slogging through 7 books.). Sentences, or parts of them, which I don't comprehend upon first read/listen litter the pages, but that's what dictionaries are for. It's however good that authors bothering to exploit so-called bigger words exist: personally, I find English a somewhat stiff and boring language compared to some others. SRD brings a lot more character into it.


Hum. Frostheart Grueburn's the "scariest" (or grimmest name, if we omit Grimmand) name possessed by a giant not either insane or otherwise amuck, but her personality outside the battlegrounds appears to contradict this. Perhaps she merely wished to sound sinister.

"Happywave Frothpaddler"

[Savor Dam]

Thanks, Savor Dan.

Not to put too fine a point upon it, but dAN is someone else entirely on the Watch...who is either King of Beasts or prone to Go To Seed.

I am Savor Dam...and if you do not immediately get the point of this Donaldsonian choice of Watch name, say it aloud a few times.

[Vulgarian]

Happywave Frothpaddler!

Welcome Vulgarian, with calls like that you should stick around.

Thankyou, Cambo. I shall pop back regularly.