Review of the powers in play at the end.

[High Lord Tolkien]

Review of the powers in play at the end.

So lets see.
TC has his wife's ring
Linden has TC's ring.
So neither one is the rightful owner......

Anyone else see a marriage in the future?
That would make them both rightful wielders of the white gold and able to utilize WM to the fullest.

Jeremiah has been granted Anele's Earthpower.
So he's got his own power supply at this moment.
Imagine what he can do once Linden gives him her Staff?
I would say just about anything.

I can't help but think that with all I just said above the power levels that are going to be in play in the Last Dark are going to be off the charts!

It will be like that Star Wars game "Star Wars: The Force Unleashed" where the game developers said "lets make a game where the use of the Force is just absolutely crazy powerful (one guy pulls a Star Destroyer out of space for example)


Anyway, here are the rest that I can think of.


The Insequent are out of the story now, as with the Elohim.

Brinn is free (?), who knows what he can do.

The Haruchai, although they refuse to use weapons are sitting on the largest collection of Earthpower talismans at Revelstone. And even without weapons they can recollect how to use Earthpower having seen Kevin use it for centuries.
I can't help but think that using the combined mind speech of 500 to a 1000 Haruchai, the 7 Words would be insanely powerful.


Who else is a Power at this point?

[Nerdanel]

I've been thinking about these things too. I've even come up with whimsical names for the significant power groups, where "significant" is defined as having some sort of future sight and being thus capable of high-grade manipulation of the plot.

The roster in the beginning was:
- Team Good
- Team Evil
- Team Wrong
- Team Horsey
- Team Tinkerbell
- Team Individualists Unite!
- Team Deadwood

Now, Team Tinkerbell (the Elohim) has been eliminated, and I think Team Horsey (the Ranyhyn) and Team Deadwood (the dead Forestals) can be counted as extensions of Team Good. I also think there is evidence that Team Individualists Unite! (the Insequent) is being secretly controlled by Team Evil.

This leaves the following list:
- Team Good
- Team Evil
- Team Wrong

While Team Good and Team Evil concentrate on defeating each other, I think the overlooked Team Wrong (the Demondim-spawn) is going to pull a nasty surprise on both of them plus the hapless masses living in the present.

I have a theory that the ur-viles and the Waynhim have solved their existential dilemma by deciding to remake the world to their image using a custom-corrupted Staff of Law...

[wayfriend]

Nerdanel!

HLT, I think your absolutely correct, the stuff that's gonna happen is going to blow us all away. We know it's going to be "the final answer" against Despite, so it has to be better than the previous answers, right? I mean, Foul finally goes down, none of this getting back up when the count is 8 like on the Wii. And when it's the "end" of the Land (whatever that might be), it's like the last season of Lost, anything can happen, anyone can die.

TC has his wife's ring, and the krill. And he's healed his Cracks, which makes him more powerful or at least less weak.

Linden has TC's ring, and the Staff. And she has her son back, so she's fully dedicated now.

Jeremiah has his mind back, and Anele's Earthpower, and his Lego Power, which lets him build Doors and Traps. But ---- we are not sure if he is on Team Evil or Team Good.

I think the Insequent will be back. Because there's no other way that they can get back to the Lost Deep and have any book left. Or to Earthroot, if you lean that way. We've had a new Insequent in every book so far: the Mahdoubt, the Harrow, the Ardent. And we haven't seen the Theomach/Brinn/ak-Haru yet, so I am thinking he needs to make an appearance somewhere.

Let's not forget the Giants. Longwrath has the BFS (Big Effing Sword), which has to be good for something.

Then there's the lurker. It has promised to serve Covenant.

Ranyhyn, Ramen, ur-viles, Waynhim, and Humbled round out the crew. No pesky Esmer interfering with Demondimspeak.

I think we might see an Elohim or two or a million get involved with Appointing their way out of this mess. (Remember Findail and Vain? I wonder what Jeremiah could build with a few dozen Appointed.)

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Jeremiah has his mind back, and Anele's Earthpower, and his Lego Power, which lets him build Doors and Traps.

I think the Insequent will be back. Because there's no other way that they can get back to the Lost Deep and have any book left. Or to Earthroot, if you lean that way.

Lego Power. That is a great way to describe what Jeremiah can do.

No way to get back to the Lost Deep or Earthroot? But you just mentioned Jeremiah and his ability to create doors--he is the best way to get back to either place (probably the only way, unless someone else can teleport), especially since he has been to both places so he knows (vaguely) where they are and what they are like.

As far as the whole "not the rightful owner of the rings" is concerned I will have to disagree. At the end of WGW, Covenant gifts his ring to Linden--he tells her that it is hers now and that she should pick it up. It was his to give and once given it became hers. Why does she think it isn't hers any more? Similarly, Joan's ring was given to her by Covenant and despite being divorced they retained their rings. In the event of Joan's death, the ring's rightful owner would revert to Covenant, her former husband and (as far as we can tell) the one man whom she loved.

I don't think the Forestals or Elohim will matter at the climax--the Forestals are all dead, as are the Elohim (unless some of them were able to hide from the Worm). Neither the Giants nor Masters/Haruchai are going to matter, either, despite the Haruchai's inflated sense of self-worth. No, this showdown will be limited to Covenant, Linden, Jeremiah, Roger, Kastenessen, Foul, SWMNBN, and the Worm. Covenant, Linden, and Jeremiah can take down Roger and Kastenessen while SWMNBN will confront Foul--and I don't think his words are going to be heeded at all--and those who remain standing can confront the Worm, either to put it back to sleep, translate it into a pocket dimension, or somehow bring about the simultaneous creation of a new world while the old one crumbles.

Could a new world be created without a self-contained flaw like Foul? Isn't he one of the "seeds of destruction" that the world needs in order to exist?

[dlbpharmd]

Remember, Roger and Jeremiah had to take Linden to the past to access the Earthblood because it was not accessible in their present day.

[High Lord Tolkien]

As far as the whole "not the rightful owner of the rings" is concerned I will have to disagree. At the end of WGW, Covenant gifts his ring to Linden--he tells her that it is hers now and that she should pick it up. It was his to give and once given it became hers. Why does she think it isn't hers any more? Similarly, Joan's ring was given to her by Covenant and despite being divorced they retained their rings. In the event of Joan's death, the ring's rightful owner would revert to Covenant, her former husband and (as far as we can tell) the one man whom she loved.

Except it's been said multiple times that Linden wasn't the rightful wielder and couldn't summon the full power of the WG.

I don't have page quotes though but it's scattered around, more so in AATE.

[wayfriend]

Yes, it's been said that Linden is not the rightful weilder, but it's also possible that these are the views of characters that may be mistaken. WGW left me believing the ring was hers, and I'm rather obstinately clinging to that. I have to admit, that's a whole subject in it's own right.

Yes, the Earthblod is not accessible in the present day. That's a fine point. We know that Roger and the croyelized Jeremiah could teleport around - if it was possible to get there, they could have gotten there. However --- they may have had ulteriour motives for the way that they went about things, and so it may have been accessible but just not conducive to their ends. They were also trying to strand Linden in the past.

As for the forestals, Linden owes one of them an answer.

[Believer]

Linden currently has Lord Foul's ring! TC gave the ring to Lord Foul. Just because he faded away when he tried to use it against TC doesn't mean TC regained rights to the ring so that he could rightfully give it to Linden. I seem to remember GI questions about this topic as well...

Kinda sucks, doesn't it?

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Is the Earthblood inaccessible because the cave is physically blocked or does the Earthblood not seep out of the rock any more? If the cave itself is open then Jeremiah can make a door to it. The Worm is heading to the Earthblood; presumably it won't be stopped in its efforts to get there regardless of any physical obstruction.

I don't recall--does she owe Caer Caveral or Caerroil Wildwood an answer? Another thing: what is the deal with those runes? They meant something to him or he wouldn't have scribed them on the Staff.

Believer is correct--I had forgotten that Covenant gave the ring to Foul of his own free will, making it Foul's. Once he faded, he had no claim on it any more so Linden picking it up made it hers. How did Berek find his ring in the first place? Either he hunted for metal and forged it himself, he found the ring in its current form (highly unlikely), or someone gave it to him (which requires another trip into the distant past).

[Orlion]

1) I seem to recall Donaldson saying that Foul is the current 'rightful' owner of TC's ring. A similar example is that one can not become the 'rightful' owner by knocking Thomas Covenant out and taking his ring. Of course, this all ignores that Thomas Covenant IS the White Gold.

2) Berek never had a white gold ring. He knew about it (probably from the Theomach and Linden), but he didn't own one.

3) We're forgetting the army of Sandgorgons

4) And the Ardent's horse, the name of which Thomas Covenant knows.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

Neither the Giants nor Masters/Haruchai are going to matter, either, despite the Haruchai's inflated sense of self-worth.

*clears throat and unsheathes a BFSG (Big Effing Stone Glaive)* You spake?

Seriously, though, Giants have always mattered in the end, to the point of becoming messianic figures. SRD isn't necessarily going to crush the norm. Some definite reason as to why Team Big Chicks was written in exists. Merely wishing he'd granted them more individuality.

[wayfriend]

Orlion, you are correct. Believer, there is also a thread about that here - you may find it fun to read.

Hashi, I think Earthroot is inaccessible (if it is) because of the earthquake and cave-in that occurred when Elena battled Kevin. It's buried. Possibly it has even been diverted to elsewhere, or blocked.

Linden owes Wildwood an answer. And runes! We need to add runes to our list of assets. Our three weapons are ... no, four! ... Our four weapons are ...

[Hashi Lebwohl]

2) Berek never had a white gold ring. He knew about it (probably from the Theomach and Linden), but he didn't own one.

I am going to have to verify this because I am certain that he did. If not, then why would anyone have mistaken Covenant for the reincarnation of Berek, identified by both his halfhand and ring?

Hashi, I think Earthroot is inaccessible (if it is) because of the earthquake and cave-in that occurred when Elena battled Kevin. It's buried. Possibly it has even been diverted to elsewhere, or blocked.

I can see that--their battle caused a second localized earthquake.

[Orlion]

2) Berek never had a white gold ring. He knew about it (probably from the Theomach and Linden), but he didn't own one.

I am going to have to verify this because I am certain that he did. If not, then why would anyone have mistaken Covenant for the reincarnation of Berek, identified by both his halfhand and ring?

I do not think it is a matter of 'mistaking' Covenant for the reincarnation of Berek merely because Berek had a half hand and (allegedly) white gold. People can better accept a messiah figure if they believe they are a powerful figure from legend that they are 'familiar' with. It gives them comfort. As far as I recall, it is only the country bumpkins that believe Covenant is Berek re-born, but even then, look at the legends. In all stories told of Berek, there is not a single one that tells of him having/using a white gold ring. Only that 'prophecy' about the white gold wielder being saviour and destructor and so forth is associated with Berek as the author.

[dlbpharmd]

Berek did not have a ring.

In LFB, Lena was the first to make a connection between TC and Berek, based solely on the halfhand semblance.

[Ananda]

Neither the Giants nor Masters/Haruchai are going to matter, either, despite the Haruchai's inflated sense of self-worth.

*clears throat and unsheathes a BFSG (Big Effing Stone Glaive)* You spake?

Seriously, though, Giants have always mattered in the end, to the point of becoming messianic figures. SRD isn't necessarily going to crush the norm. Some definite reason as to why Team Big Chicks was written in exists. Merely wishing he'd granted them more individuality.

And don't forget the hawt urvile loremasters giant and potent staff! I am very anxious to see him in action.

[deer of the dawn]

I am just so excited about TLD because SRD has put so MANY possible (and impossible) forces and persons into play. Going by past experience, he will not disappoint us. Yes, the Chrons are about life and people being messy and everything not necessarily resolving, but I think he has enough sense of responsibility to his fans to take that 2 years that are just killing us, and do it up right.

[DrPaul]

2) Berek never had a white gold ring. He knew about it (probably from the Theomach and Linden), but he didn't own one.

I am going to have to verify this because I am certain that he did. If not, then why would anyone have mistaken Covenant for the reincarnation of Berek, identified by both his halfhand and ring?

I do not think it is a matter of 'mistaking' Covenant for the reincarnation of Berek merely because Berek had a half hand and (allegedly) white gold. People can better accept a messiah figure if they believe they are a powerful figure from legend that they are 'familiar' with. It gives them comfort. As far as I recall, it is only the country bumpkins that believe Covenant is Berek re-born, but even then, look at the legends. In all stories told of Berek, there is not a single one that tells of him having/using a white gold ring. Only that 'prophecy' about the white gold wielder being saviour and destructor and so forth is associated with Berek as the author.

SRD actually dealt with this in The Gradual Interview. Someone asked a question based on the premise that Berek had a ring, and SRD politely pointed out that nowhere in the Chronicles is there any mention of Berek having a white gold ring.

[High Lord Tolkien]

The Lurker!
The Lurker promised to help TC.
I wonder.....
The Raver's army in the Illearth War was a paltry thing against Garroting Deep.

I wonder if the Sandgorgon Army could be led into the Great Swamp and be destroyed somehow.....maybe each one slowed down somehow to allow a well placed slash of a magic sword wielded by an angry Giant?

Or....how far does the Lurkers power reach? All the way up the Defiles Course and under Mt Thunder?

[earthbrah]

Stated in the GI:

But the brute fact is that Covenant *gave* the ring to Lord Foul. That made LF the "rightful" wielder of that ring. So he later dropped it. So Linden picked it up. So what? The point is that she *took* it. It wasn't *given* to her. It wasn't even *surrendered* to her.

And Covenant certainly didn't *marry* her with it. That's an important distinction, even if its import is more symbolic than literal.

There it is: Foul is the 'rightful' wielder of the ring. I wonder what happens to the rightful wielder identity of that ring if and when Linden and Covenant get married...