Review of the powers in play at the end.

Book 3 of the Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

Moderators: dlbpharmd, High Lord Tolkien

User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Does the ring still belong to Foul even after he dissolved himself into nothingness by using his own essence to power all those wild magic blasts at the climax of White Gold Wielder? How long does it take for an object to become "not yours" anymore once you aren't around? Do things still belong to you once you are dead, or essentially dead, as the case may be?

If the answer is "yes", then the very fact that Linden holds that ring is dangerous. If the answer is "no" then it is definitely hers.

Sadly, I do not have the time to invest into reading the Gradual Interview. This means I will miss out on various secrets but that is a price I will simply have to accept.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 2943
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 12:45 pm
Location: Deep in psychotic, warped and weird thoughts

Post by Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm »

To start with, the GI is variably reliable, I haven't read even remotely large amounts of it, and there were arguable and self-contradicting answers. One of SRD's favorite answers is, after all, RAFO, that is, read and find out. But the logic with the rightful owner seems good from what we know, so this is not much likely to be altered, just a possibility to keep in mind. And, well, a reason to not worry too much about not reading the GI)

And I think the objects like that remain belonging to their owners indefinitely and after their deaths. For two reasons mostly. One is that the staff is Linden's even after her leaving the world completely, this may be not too reliable, since she created it, but the link to the White Gold may well be not weaker. Another is that the Law of Death was broken, perhaps that dematerialization wasn't exactly death, but the same laws mostly applied to it, like with ending the summons.

Quite surely looks like there's something else to this that doesn't let Lord Foul just grab the ring and break the Arch. Either the other plan, something more than just breaking the ark, or it's still not possible even if he is the rightful wielder, maybe both those reasons. From what was said, IIRC, in AATE, that depends on the mindset and choice made by the one attempting that. I'll check and write on that more.
A role-player, beware
Image
User avatar
earthbrah
<i>Haruchai</i>
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Pensacola, FL

Post by earthbrah »

Yes, Donaldson also said several times on the GI that Covenant's intention with the ring mattered. Even though Linden was not technically given the ring by Covenant, he did tell her to take it. He wanted her to have it and use it. That intention on his part enabled her to use it, even if not the full extent of it.
"Verily, wisdom is like hunger. Perhaps it is a very fine thing--but who would willingly partake of it."
--Saltheart Foamfollower

"Latency--what is concealed--is the demonstrable presence of the future."
--Jean Gebser
User avatar
Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 2943
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 12:45 pm
Location: Deep in psychotic, warped and weird thoughts

Post by Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm »

If I'm not mistaken, from all this it looks like it was his suggestion to her, not any passage of power. It's possible that those words meant more, but unlikely. The ring apparently exactly works, but not to the full extent, for anyone who is not the rightful wielder. And since it belonged to Lord Foul then, Covenant hardly had the rights to pass.

Unless there is still more to the connection between him and the ring, something apart from just ownership.
A role-player, beware
Image
User avatar
earthbrah
<i>Haruchai</i>
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Pensacola, FL

Post by earthbrah »

Good point, Effaeldm.

Makes me wonder, then, what the connection between Linden and Foul could be. There's been tons of speculation about how TC and Foul are connected, but that ring (which Covenant refused to take back in AATE) is in Linden's possession but may still defer to Foul...? That seems unlikely.

In The Second Chronicles, Linden was said to have been 'forged for this desecration.' Perhaps that desecration has not yet come to pass...though that too seems unlikely.
"Verily, wisdom is like hunger. Perhaps it is a very fine thing--but who would willingly partake of it."
--Saltheart Foamfollower

"Latency--what is concealed--is the demonstrable presence of the future."
--Jean Gebser
User avatar
Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 2943
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 12:45 pm
Location: Deep in psychotic, warped and weird thoughts

Post by Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm »

As for "this desecration" mentioned - most likely that was 2nd Chrons related, "this" being for the specific one. Not like Lord Foul couldn't reassign her for other desecration plan since then, of course.

Hard to say about direct connections and if they're going to used so straightly, however, as much as they can be observed, there's one quite sure between Linden and SWMNBN. And some connection between LF and SWMNBN was mentioned, like that same song Diassomer was first featured in, though all that for now looks much unreliable to draw much conclusions - but there is something. And there's also this, maybe without special meaning, but there may well be something.
...
When I am free" - she heard a grin in the swarming reflections - "you will accompany me, so that your present torment may be prolonged forever. I will gladly mark myself upon such flesh as yours."
And just sometime around thinking out these replies to this thread it started to seem to me somehow... odd - the fact that Linden wears Lord Foul's ring.
A role-player, beware
Image
User avatar
shadowbinding shoe
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:33 am

Post by shadowbinding shoe »

Covenant gave his ring to Foul but... while he is not the WG ring, he IS the Wild Magic (Mhoram, scene at the end of WGW). Becoming mortal must have weakened this connection but it has always been true to some degree.
Post Reply

Return to “Against All Things Ending”