Cail's big honking Rush thread

[Zarathustra]

People are saying the same thing about the 9/7/12 show, which was a Friday: people weren't into it. It's because they don't know the songs. Rush really took a chance with this setlist. Maybe because the last tour was such a blatant money-grabber with the "MP anniversary tour," not supporting a new album, etc. This time it's for the band and the hardcore fans. It would be a hell of a way to go out if this is their last one.

There's kind of a pattern here, with last 6 tours (counting this one).
They did *all* of 2112 (side one) in 1996, which could be considered a version of the MP thing last tour, since 2112 was their first commercial success after a string of small hits and a disastrous Caress of Steel (2112 literally saved the band).

Then 2002 tour supported VT.

Then 2004 was the R30 Anniversary (greatest hits, no new album).

2007-8 tour supported S&A.

2010-11 Time Machine was MP anniversary and another greatest hits tour.

2012-13 supports CA.

So they've been alternating between "greatest hits" and albums for 16 years now. Maybe I'm inferring too much about this tour to say this might be the end ... but that day is coming.

[Cail]

It is coming, which is a shame, but those guys are't kids anymore.

I talked to a handful of people in the parking lot before the show, and with one exception, no one had heard the new album. What's more, only 6 of the 25 songs they played were radio hits, and calling Dreamline and Force Ten "hits" is pushing it.

This setlist was designed for hard-core fans, not casual listeners. A couple in front of us left shortly after the intermission, and they were pissed that they weren't hearing the more popular songs.

It's a bold move on Rush's part, and as a fan, I'm glad they made it. Getting to see The Pass live was just......transcendent. Sure, there were other songs I'd have rather heard (could've subbed Lock and Key for Force Ten, Afterimage for Grand Designs), but overall this show was a gift to the fans.

And I for one really appreciate that.

[Cail]

A few pictures....

[dANdeLION]

Getting to see The Pass live was just......transcendent.

Yeah, I like that song. They played it down here on either the Vapor Trails tour, or maybe the R30 tour (I think it was VT). I loved it. My neurotic friend kept whining about it, though. He's from NY, and thinks he should be in charge of making their set list. Oh, and he thinks Geddy should only play his Rickenbacker. too.

Cail, looks like you got a "B" night, which switches out songs from "A" night. On A nights, they play Bravado instead of The Pass, The Body Electric instead of Middletown Dreams, Carnies instead of 7 Cities, Manhattan Project instead of Dreamline, and Spirit of Radio (supposed to play Limelight, too, but tech problems cost time) instead of 2112.

So not "shit," just different. I mentioned this in a PM to Dan, but didn't post it in the thread.

It's true!

[Sorus]

Oooh, nice stage. No washing machines?

[Cail]

Oooh, nice stage. No washing machines?

Big popcorn poppers!

[Cail]

Now that I've had a couple of days to let it sink in....


WOW.

I've perused Counterparts, the Rush message board, and people are pissed about not only the setlist, but the fact that there's "A" and "B" nights. Craziness.

My thoughts:

You're never going to please all the people all the time, especially with something so subjective as music. I think the band found a comfortable middle ground that should please all but the most casual fan.

The first set was heavy on the '80s stuff, but it was such a treat to hear Middletown Dreams and The Pass. Big Money really plays well live, better than I expected. As much as I like Far Cry, I'd have rather heard something from Counterparts like Animate or Cut to the Chase.

The second set was puzzling. You have a new record out that's a surprisingly coherent and cohesive concept album. I think they should have played the whole thing. The material is good enough that it deserves it.

But the stuff after The Garden (which was just unfuckingbelievable) was puzzling. I like Dreamline, but they seem to play it an awful lot. Red Sector A is awesome, but I think it would have fit better in the first set. YYZ will always make an appearance, so that's hard to criticize.

They don't ever need to play Working Man again.

Tom Sawyer was a bone thrown to the casual fans that had just sat through 3 hours of songs they'd never heard. 2112 was an interesting show closer.

In all, I'm glad they steered away from the standards. I got to see songs that I never thought I'd see (again in some cases). As I said about CA, I'm so happy that Rush seems to be making a point of not taking the easy route. They didn't crap out a derivative album, and they're not leaning on a greatest hits tour.

And though I cringed a bit at the setlist at first, I'm so glad I went.

[Mortice Root]

Bitching about the set list? I don't get it. For every "I wish they would have played...." there's a "I can't believe they played.....!" I mean, they've got almost 40 years worth of stuff. Everyone is going to miss a favorite song or two, no matter what they play.

With any band, you'd think that from the perspective of the musicians, it would be utterly boring to crank out the same two and half hours of music again and again, year after year, like so many other bands do. You'd think that the band would be proud of their new material, and want to feature it prominently. Unless, of course, they were just cranking out "product" in order to get to the money making tour.

I think things like this set list really show that these guys are proud of their music, and (despite their age) are always looking foward to new growth and new directions.

And that's (one of the many reasons) why I love these guys.

BTW Cail, how was the string section? Was it just on the CA material?

[Cail]

Yeah, the strings were just there for the CA material, which was nice. The rest of the show was undiluted Rush.

And I really can't stress enough how good the CA material sounded live. I love the album, which helps, but it really came into its own in concert.





By the way, I haven't forgotten about the comprehensive album reviews, but CA has been playing nearly nonstop for the past couple of weeks. I'll get back to it with HYF, I swear.

[Zarathustra]

I thought they also had strings for YYZ and a few others.

Cail, it was fortunate you started your "album dissection" where you did, given the setlist.

[Cail]

I thought they also had strings for YYZ and a few others.

Now this is funny, and a little embarrassing. You're right. They're very well integrated, and I was focusing on the band. I had to ask my wife to verify, but yeah, they're playing during most of, if not all of the second set.

Cail, it was fortunate you started your "album dissection" where you did, given the setlist.

Yes indeed, I'm glad I refamiliarized myself with the '80s stuff prior to going.

[Cail]

Ok, so here we go....

Hold Your Fire:

Or as I like to call it, what the fcuk?

I've really taken my time with this one, as I rushed my P/G review, and I now think it's one of Rush's better records. HYF, on the other hand....

I never heard this record when it was released. I was done with the band after PoW, and the singles I heard from this one didn't do anything to change my mind. In '87 I was into much harder music, and the airy new-wave production of what I'd heard did nothing for me. This record gets a lot of love from Zar and a lot of folks on the Rush forum, so I wanted to really pay attention.

Force Ten - Sorry, but I still think the lyrics are banal, and the sound is way too thin. Even having seen it performed live, I just don't like it.

Time Stand Still - Didn't like it when it came out. Didn't like it live in '87 or '88 when I saw them. Whoops, this is actually a really good song. It suffers from the production of course, but there's a really well-written song here that rises above all that. Glad I gave it another chance, and I think they played it well on the TM tour.

Open Secrets - Reminiscent of P/G, but not nearly as well-written. Sort of a cross between Afterimage and Between the Wheels, but without the energy. It's like they're trying too hard to write "feeling" songs. Would be far better with a more muscular production.

Second Nature - Similar in vocal delivery to The Pass and even Heresy too. But utterly lacking their punch. I'm really trying to like this song, 'cause there's good elements here, but the execution just isn't getting it.

Prime Mover - Here's another one that just seems so damn thin. Great lyrics, nice and "Rush-y", but just not carried out well. I understand Alex's frustration, as I'm right there with him.

Lock and Key - Now we're talking! But....This isn't a great Rush song. It's sort of generic. This could easily be by someone else. Still, this is a cool song. Strip away the bright keyboards and bring the guitar up, and it's a fantastic rock song.

Mission - Good song, although it sounds like it belongs on an '80 sports movie soundtrack. It just gets up to the edge of being great and then stops for me. Again, the production fails. Dear God, let Alex rip, please!

Turn the Page - Wanna hear me bitch about production again? Probably not. Well, Geddy's voice sounds good, I'll give it that. Again, sort of an anonymous song, but it's not terrible.

Tai Shan - Fcuking horrible. The worst song I've reviewed so far. There is literally nothing at all redeeming about this. Bad lyrics, bad production, bad arrangement. This is just hateful.

High Water - Better than Tai Shan, but that's not saying much. It just doesn't seem to go anywhere or have much to say.


While I don't like PoW, I can at least say that the songs are well-written and that it's clearly Rush hidden under the glossy production. I can't say that about HYF. The songwriting is not up to the standard they've set, and the production is just so damn dated that it's nearly impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff.

PoW has two phenomenally good songs; Middletown Dreams and Marathon, HYF has two songs that I can safely call "good", but they pale in comparison to their prior work.

I vaguely remember this tour, as it was my last Rush show for over two decades. I remember being disappointed by it, which is reinforced by the Show of Hands live record. I'm troubled by this, as I have a lot of praise for Presto.


Oh well, can't please everyone I suppose.

[Zarathustra]

Hmm, I must be giving you the wrong impression somehow. I ranked HYF 15th out of 19, below Grace and PoW. It's the low point of the 80s Rush for me, for sure.

I do like Force Ten (live), Time Stand Still, Turn the Page (live), and Mission (live). That bass in TtP is awesome. And in the live version of Mission, they do let Alex rip on one of his best solos of his career (the "outro," actually).

But Tai Shan is universally recognized as The Worst Rush Song Ever. I have no memory of High Water. Now that you mention it, Lock and Key is okay.

Basically, it's the production that is the problem. You've nailed it. I didn't like any of this until I heard it live. I distinctly remember my first encounter with this CD ... ah ... cassette. My brother and I were in high school. He played drums, I played bass (we later formed a band once we got good enough). Another older drummer whom he admired told him he needed to check out Rush, because they had the best drummer on the planet. Rush had never made an impression on me at this point. I knew Tom Sawyer and Limelight, that's it. Neither song impressed me as a phenomenal drum showpiece. I thought Alex Van Halen was the shit, at this time ... what did I know? So we signed up with Columbia Tape Club or whatever it was called. I got every Van Halen tape, and my brother ordered the latest release from Rush .... which was HYF. As soon as we put this wimpy sounding cassette into the car stereo, I was embarrassed for my brother and felt sorry for him for wasting one of his tape selections. I don't think I liked a single song on this until the 2004 tour when they played Force Ten. Finally, it had some balls that was lacking from the production. It's not just Alex, but Geddy's sound, too. I think he was playing Wal basses back then, and they just sounded horrible. Nothing beats that Fender Jazz bass.

[Mortice Root]

Heh- see, I like this record. Though I will agree with a lot of the comments you guys made. Yes, the production sucks. The guitars are way too bright and trebble-y and yes, everything sounds very thin. And yes, there's just not enough guitar. And yes, every single one of these tracks that I've heard on any of the live records is always better in the live version. I read that on this album, unlike any of the other ones, they recorded keyboards before guitar (as opposed to guitar first than keys). If I'm remembering right, Alex said that he felt that this ended up limiting the soinc space in which he had to work with, so that probably contributed some to the production, as well as explain why they all sound better with the live arrangments, with more prominent guitar.

I do like most of the writing here however.

Force Ten- Loved this one since the moment I heard it. Energetic, quick, love some of the little keyboard splatches and I enjoy the way it goes down in intensity forthe chorus, which is the reverse of most rock tunes.

Time Stand Still - This is a great song. Heartfelt and moving, I enjoyed this one when I first heard it at 16 or so, but like better and better the older I get, as the lyrics resonante more - more yearning to "freeze this moment a little bit longer". I like the different color added by the Aimee Mann vocal too. I took my (then 5 year old) son to see the Time Machine tour with me, and some of my best memories of the show were holding him up in the air during this song, seeing the look of awe and joy on his face - "freeze this moment" indeed.

Open Secrets - some good lyrics, but overall an average tune.

Second Nature - The way this one starts, just singing and piano chords is great, and very un-Rush like. Very catchy, singable melody. And the lyrics are fantastic.

"Folks are basically decent
Conventional wisdom would say
Well, we read about the exceptions
In the paper everyday.

It ought to be second nature-
I mean, that's what I feel
Now I lay me down in dreamland
I know perfect's not for real
I thought we might get closer-
But I'm ready to make a deal"

A great job of expressing the balance of optimism and realism.

Prime Mover- Another fantastic song. The arrangement is what really sells this one, the way the melody thread shifts between different instruments in different sections of the tune. The the "anything can happen" lyric - ultimately positive and uplifting. Great stuff.

Lock And Key - I like this one, though it's not one of my favorties on here. The bass lines and the shifting percussion really stand out here.

Mission - On every level, outstanding. (Well, aside from the crappy production, that is) Musically I love the breakdown section in the middle. And the lyric writing is some of Neil's best - the juxtaposition of the "average" person wishing for the artist's drive, the exploration of the driving force of inspiration, and the middle section describing the "artist" wishing more more stability, more sanity - perfect "grass is always greener" stuff - and brilliantly and upliftingly described in a rock song. Awesome.

And yeah, Alex's live outtro solo on this one is a thing of beauty. It's right up there with his outtro solo on the live version of Bravado - I love it when he gets to strech out more live.

Turn The Page - This just rocks! The bass line is just awesome through the whole song and the fact that Geddy can sing while playing this is just dumbfounding to me. And again, great lyrics -

"Truth is, after all, a moving target
Hairs to split and pieces that don't fit
How can anybody be enlightened?
Truth is, after all, so poorly lit"

Unfortunately they should have stopped with 8 songs.

Tai Shan - Look, I want to like this. I get that Neil had a moving experience cycling through China, and I want to appreciate the fact that the band is trying to incorporate musical instruments and styles from elsewhere in the world into their own music. It's just that not every one can be Paul Simon or Peter Gabriel. Ugh. Sorry, guys.

High Water - And this? This has got to be the most uninspiring, lackluster album closer in the Rush catalog. What a dud.

Setting aside the last two tunes, I do really like the record, though. I surely can't argue with complaints about crappy production but I enjoy the song writing here enough to overcome it.

[Cail]

To me, this album feels like they were trying to make a very conscious split between their prior stuff and a new, lighter, less cerebral sound. I have little recollection of how this record was initially received, but given the change of direction on Presto, I'm thinking they realized their error.

I think that this album, and to a much lesser extent on Presto, the limitations inherent in having a single songwriter manifest themselves. You can hear this in a lot of Iron Maiden's stuff too, though at least they have Adrian there to kick in a song or two on each album.

I'd be very curious to know if any of these songs were leftovers from PoW, and if any of HYF's leftovers were used on Presto.

[Zarathustra]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the "breakdown" section in the middle of Mission. That's a great piece of prog-rock.

Edit: I don't think Rush ever has leftovers.

And while I do think they recognized that there were things they wanted to change about their style, this happens to them every 3 albums or so. I wouldn't necessarily take it as an admission that they were doing something wrong, just that they explored that particular direction as far as it would go, and time to move on to something new. Granted, frustration on over-production and lack of guitars could have contributed to this, but obviously they're still proud of this stage in their career, mixing it up on tour with the hardest, rockinest stage in their career in decades.

[Cail]

On leftovers.....I really wonder. I'll get into this idea more in my Presto review, but I think a fair argument can be made that there are HYF songs that seem more similar in feel to PoW songs, and Presto songs that are more in tune with the weaker songs on HYF.

I will say though that Time Stand Still is a good song, regardless of what album it's on.

[Mortice Root]

I agree with Z on the leftover idea. I know that a lot of bands do this, but my understanding was that Rush came up with new stuff each writing session. That doesn't make the observation that some Presto songs feel similar to HYF and some HYF are similar to Windows invalid, though. In fact, you'd expect some similarilty between records, even when the band is making an attempt to change the way the sound. Hell, to my ears, there are elements that I'm hearing for the first time on T4E that don't come into full frutition until VT, and those are drastically different records.


Cail wrote

I think that this album, and to a much lesser extent on Presto, the limitations inherent in having a single songwriter manifest themselves

But they don't really have a single song writer. Single lyric writer, sure, but even then it sounds like Geddy will suggest a fair amount of revisions to Neil's stuff. But the music primarily comes from Geddy and Alex. I think they have a good way of incorporating all three of them in the writing process.

[Cail]

Lyrically though, it's Neil's show.

[Mortice Root]

Yup.

But by having two guys write the music with the third writing the lyrics I think they avoid the pitfalls that can happen when one guy writes everything all the time. There's a certain amount of repetition that can creep in to even the best song writers when they don't have other people to collaborate with, and Rush (mostly) avoid this, IMO.

Edit for dumbass late friday afternoon spelling.