The NRA Suppressing research into Gun Violence

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The NRA Suppressing research into Gun Violence

Post by wayfriend »

Apparently, the NRA thinks we're not allowed to have credible data about the dangers of guns.
BusinessInsider (and many other sources) wrote:How The NRA Killed Federal Funding For Gun Violence Research [link]

More than 100 scientists from universities in the United States lobbied Vice President Joe Biden, asking him to allow the Center for Disease Control and Prevention to once again fund research into the public health impacts of guns.

The scientists signed a letter to Biden last week, urging him to consider making "direct investments in unbiased, scientific research and data infrastructure" related to firearm safety.

The CDC isn't allowed to pursue many kinds of gun research due to the lobbying strength of the National Rifle Association.

As a result of the National Rifle Association's lobbying efforts, governmental research into gun mortality has shrunk by 96 percent since the mid-1990s, according to Reuters.

Prior to 1996, the Center for Disease Control funded research into the causes of firearm-related deaths. After a series of articles finding that increased prevalence of guns lead to increased incidents of gun violence, Republicans sought to remove all federal funding for research into gun deaths.

In 1996, Republican Rep. Jay Dickey removed $2.6 million from the CDC budget — the precise amount the CDC spent on gun research in 1995 — at a time when the center was conducting more studies into gun-related deaths as a "public health phenomenon," according to The New York Times. The NRA and some pro-gun Congressmen perceived this as more of an attack.

Here's an excerpt of a 1997 article in Reason about the fight to kill gun science:
  • Since 1985 the CDC has funded scores of firearm studies, all reaching conclusions that favor stricter gun control. But CDC officials insist they are not pursuing an anti-gun agenda. In a 1996 interview with the Times-Picayune, CDC spokeswoman Mary Fenley adamantly denied that the agency is "trying to eliminate guns."
At the behest of the NRA, Congressional Republicans successfully removed all federal funding to the Center for Disease Control that would have gone into researching the effect of guns and the root causes of gun violence.

That funding was eventually reinstated, but has been decreasing since, and the CDC re-designated the money to conduct research on traumatic brain injuries.

The current law reads: “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”

Because of the NRA's successful campaign to eliminate the scientific research into the public health effect of firearms, very few researchers specialize in the field anymore, University of California, Davis, professor Garen Wintemute told Reuters. He said there isn't enough money to sustain research.

Since there is a lack of funding for independent research, the gun debate has been lacking in unimpeachable statistics that could effect a change in the status quo.

As it stands, the main available statistics regarding the gun debate are raw gun homicide and suicide stats collected through the FBI, international data and data from groups with a direct stake in the gun debate — for instance, pro-gun stats from the NRA and pro-gun control stats from the Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence.

The scientists writing the letter to Biden wrote that, effectively, the NRA has successfully hamstrung a credible gun control conversation. When the only statistics available are imperfect, it becomes that much easier to disregard them.
And more about it ...
Bloomerg wrote:Why Does the NRA Fear the Truth About Gun Violence? [link]

That, of course, is the point. In a study published in 1993 in the New England Journal of Medicine, researchers found that the presence of a gun in a home significantly increased the risks of homicide and suicide. (A finding seemingly borne out in the case of Nancy Lanza, the mother of the Newtown killer, who was murdered with her own gun.) The study was compelling, thought-provoking and attention-grabbing. Was it conclusive? Hardly. But rather than trust in scientific principle and a free marketplace of ideas to sort through the data, the gun lobby mobilized to snuff out such research altogether.

The effort was remarkably successful. In 1996, Republican Representative Jay Dickey of Arkansas pushed an amendment cutting $2.6 million from the budget of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The import of the amendment was lost on no one. The CDC had spent $2.6 million on gun research the year before. Thereafter, the CDC was expressly prohibited from using funds to “advocate or promote gun control.” A subsequent effort, by Republican Representative Denny Rehberg of Montana, applied similar restrictions to the National Institutes of Health.

These are the results of the gun lobby’s storied political muscle. They are not, however, the actions of a political movement confident that history, data or reason itself can support its agenda. Truth doesn’t fear information.
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Post by Cail »

There's two issues here:

- The NRA is just dead-wrong in lobbying to prevent the CDC from doing research. But....

- Private groups can, and have, done this research. Quite frankly, it's not the CDC's mission to to research on firearms (Center of Disease Control, after all), and this is truly something that the private sector can handle without my tax dollars.
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Post by sindatur »

Yea, I agree wih Cail, the CDC's job is to investigate and prepare for Disease outbreaks, there is no reason they should be involved in Gun Control at all, unless diseases are being passed through guns.

Having said that, I'm not necessarily against an appropriate party getting a research grant for this (in order to attempt to keep the research non-partisan), but, seems to me the Lobbying money spent fighting against the NRA to keep it with the CDC could be used to fund this research
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Bullshit.

Gun violence is not a public health issue and thus the CDC has no authority or reason to investigate it. The FBI, on the other hand, does have the authority to investigate gun violence and, in fact, they do so in great detail. Once again, allow me to present the official statistics from the FBI, which break down all categories of crime and cross-reference them with such vital statistics as "age of victim", "age of offender", "victim/offender relationship", etc. Start with 2011 since that year has completed statistics and you can even check out the tables for non-homicide crimes such as "robbery" and "forcible rape" to get a breakdown of the weapons used in the commission of those crimes as part of a comprehensive investigation into gun violence.

The FBI's Crime in the United States page--the only site you need for getting an in-depth look into crime of all sorts. I highly doubt the NRA could ever disuade the FBI from collecting those statistics so the premise of this thread is laughably ridiculous.
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Post by Cail »

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:The FBI's Crime in the United States page--the only site you need for getting an in-depth look into crime of all sorts. I highly doubt the NRA could ever disuade the FBI from collecting those statistics so the premise of this thread is laughably ridiculous.
Right. Point being that the NRA doesn't do their PR any good by appearing to suppress research.
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

The NRA has always been its own worst enemy.

"honey, what color should we paint the house?"

"guns!"
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Post by Cail »

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:The NRA has always been its own worst enemy.

"honey, what color should we paint the house?"

"guns!"
Oh dear God yes. It pains me that I have to be a member sometimes.
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Post by wayfriend »

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Gun violence is not a public health issue and thus the CDC has no authority or reason to investigate it.
Not a public health issue? People are seriously injured or killed in significant numbers, its a health issue, sorry.

And no, the CDC is not just for investigating contagious diseases. The CDC "works to protect public health and safety", including "environmental health, occupational safety and health, health promotion, injury prevention and education activities designed to improve the health of the people of the United States." [Wikipedia]. Let's not add to the disinformation, please!

BTW, the CDC wasn't investigating gun control. That's what the NRA wants everyone to believe. They were investigating the health risks of gun ownership. The NRA called it "investigating gun control" when the data that was coming out made good arguments for gun control.
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Post by sindatur »

wayfriend wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Gun violence is not a public health issue and thus the CDC has no authority or reason to investigate it.
Not a public health issue? People are seriously injured or killed in significant numbers, its a health issue, sorry.

And no, the CDC is not just for investigating contagious diseases. The CDC "works to protect public health and safety", including "environmental health, occupational safety and health, health promotion, injury prevention and education activities designed to improve the health of the people of the United States." [Wikipedia]. Let's not add to the disinformation, please!

BTW, the CDC wasn't investigating gun control. That's what the NRA wants everyone to believe. They were investigating the health risks of gun ownership. The NRA called it "investigating gun control" when the data that was coming out made good arguments for gun control.
Didn't I just read a statistic the other day on a thread that said there re as many deaths caused by cars as there are by guns? My apologies I misundertood or misremember.

If this is true, are the CDC also doing research on the health risks of owning cars (which would also include their exhaust affecting health)

CDC stands for Center for Disesae Control, so, regardless what it may have been puffed up to become, it's very name tells you what it's intended charter was.
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

wayfriend wrote:And no, the CDC is not just for investigating contagious diseases. The CDC "works to protect public health and safety", including "environmental health, occupational safety and health, health promotion, injury prevention and education activities designed to improve the health of the people of the United States." [Wikipedia]. Let's not add to the disinformation, please!
It isn't my fault that the CDC is overstepping its boundaries and investigating things that are not actually health issues.

No, sindatur, you are incorrect. There are not as many deaths caused by automobiles as there are by guns; rather, there are more deaths by auto than by gun. When will the government move to ban these death machines? Think of the children!
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Post by Zarathustra »

Do we really need to spend millions of tax payer dollars to tell us that you have a greater chance of injury by gun if you are around or own guns? I'm sure that I have a greater chance of injury by power drill if I own a power drill, too. The NRA has just saved us millions of dollars from learning the obvious. Thanks, NRA. If you want to limit my Constitutional rights with data, then go fund it yourself. No one is stopping anyone from starting an anti-gun lobby, btw.

I personally don't believe it's the federal government's role to fund any scientific study whatsoever, not to mention it has no Constitutional power to safeguard our health. I have no problem at all with the NRA successfully limiting this government waste and government abuse of power in the name of safeguarding my Constitutional rights.
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Post by SerScot »

Hashi,

But the CDC is better equiped to do this kind of healthcare related statistical analysis. The FBI investigates crimes. It also reminds me of the general objections people offer about research into things like racially related illness and why some people are homosexuals and some people are not.
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Post by Rawedge Rim »

wayfriend wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Gun violence is not a public health issue and thus the CDC has no authority or reason to investigate it.
Not a public health issue? People are seriously injured or killed in significant numbers, its a health issue, sorry.

And no, the CDC is not just for investigating contagious diseases. The CDC "works to protect public health and safety", including "environmental health, occupational safety and health, health promotion, injury prevention and education activities designed to improve the health of the people of the United States." [Wikipedia]. Let's not add to the disinformation, please!

BTW, the CDC wasn't investigating gun control. That's what the NRA wants everyone to believe. They were investigating the health risks of gun ownership. The NRA called it "investigating gun control" when the data that was coming out made good arguments for gun control.
People are injured and killed by tornados and hurricanes, but the CDC doesn't do studies to find out how to reduce those numbers. The CDC needs to keep to it's core mission "Disease Control".
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Post by Orlion »

We all ready did the research... at least as far as the media is concerned. There is a correlation between violent media and aggressive behaviour. Why that is, we do not know, and any actual studies to find out would be considered unethical by a panel to approve funding for said studies. Essentially, we'd be sinking 10 million plus dollars into a bottomless maw to get results that we all ready have.

Perhaps we should quit doing the same thing expecting different results.
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Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Violent media for the most part do not cause any crimes, but they do help to prime the pump.
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Post by Orlion »

Don Exnihilote wrote:Violent media for the most part do not cause any crimes, but they do help to prime the pump.
That's one theory. The other is that aggressive people are just attracted to violent media.

Then there's the whole disconnect from reality. As in, the media does not portray how things are, but John Q Public accepts it as reality.

Like how guns are portrayed in the media. Enemy at the Gates does not prepare the normal person to be a sniper, particularly since the guns they used in Russia are loud (the one I fired was, anyway).

Which also begs the question: based solely on popular media, how much damage could people do anyway? I'd say not much.
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Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

I don't think you can discount the role of desensitization as a cultural affect of violent media. This is even more true of interactive media such as games, which do incorporate mental preparation for violence as well as rote repetition combined with positive reinforcement. Now I don't think that fully translates from joystick to rifle and from figure on the screen to real life person, but there is a degree of consonance, which will manifest more especially in personalities that are narcisstic and short on empathy (in other words, those personality types more likely to be perpetrators in the first place). Please note that this falls short of causality. And I would agree that your alternatives no doubt apply as well, to some extent.
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Post by wayfriend »

sindatur wrote:CDC stands for Center for Disesae Control, so, regardless what it may have been puffed up to become, it's very name tells you what it's intended charter was.
Well, it seems kind of silly to insist that the charter of the CDC is derived from it's name, and not from what it is actually chartered to do by Congress. Sometimes the charter changes, and the name doesn't keep up.

This is all rather beside the point. Had it been someone else gathering statistics about guns, the NRA would have suppressed that, too. We know why the NRA squelched the CDC, and it didn't have anything to do with the charter of the CDC or the wise use of tax dollars.

The important fact I get out of this is that the NRA, which argues against gun control based on "data", has been manipulating that data to make it say what they want it to say for about twenty years at least.
Zarathustra wrote:If you want to limit my Constitutional rights with data, then go fund it yourself.
I don't think I could stand against the NRA. I am sure many people feel the same.

You do reiterate the NRA's faulty position: any data about guns must be anti-gun.

You do know that the constitution grants no one any right, in the 2nd amendment or otherwise, when it presents a danger to the public. If certain guns are deemed dangerous to the public, no ones constitutional right is revoked in banning them. That's always been, and always has been, the world's largest red herring.

This is why gun-rights supporters are arguing obstinately self-contradictory positions at the same time. That a certain class of weapon is no more dangerous than other weapons, but also that one cannot adequately defend oneself without them.
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Post by Orlion »

Don Exnihilote wrote:I don't think you can discount the role of desensitization as a cultural affect of violent media. This is even more true of interactive media such as games, which do incorporate mental preparation for violence as well as rote repetition combined with positive reinforcement. Now I don't think that fully translates from joystick to rifle and from figure on the screen to real life person, but there is a degree of consonance, which will manifest more especially in personalities that are narcisstic and short on empathy (in other words, those personality types more likely to be perpetrators in the first place). Please note that this falls short of causality. And I would agree that your alternatives no doubt apply as well, to some extent.
I think a major part of the desensitization is due to the fact that my generation has not had to endure any major armed conflict. It's all intellectualized, the average citizen does not sacrifice as much they would have during the World Wars, Civil Wars, and so forth. There is not really a concrete enemy to strive against like the Russians (all we have are vague boogey men like "terrorists" and "drugs").

In a nut shell, we, as growing members of the nation, do not know/have forgotten what it is to actually experience violence/war. Instead, we look to past conflicts and place our soldiers on pedestals. We have, from lack of costly conflict, come to worship it. And the various media are symptoms of that, not the cause (IMO, could be they are exasperating the problem as well).
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Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

wayfriend wrote:You do know that the constitution grants no one any right, in the 2nd amendment or otherwise, when it presents a danger to the public. If certain guns are deemed dangerous to the public, no ones constitutional right is revoked in banning them. That's always been, and always has been, the world's largest red herring.

This is why gun-rights supporters are arguing obstinately self-contradictory positions at the same time. That a certain class of weapon is no more dangerous than other weapons, but also that one cannot adequately defend oneself without them.
Public safety is an issue that must be balanced with but that does not supersede the natural right of a free people to be armed for purposes of self defense. In fact public safety is a subordinate concern in my view. Only when threats to public safety significantly outweigh the benefits of particular arms should they be banned (i.e., machineguns, crew served weapons, explosive munitions). And it's clear enough that assault weapons have a miniscule role in crime, but a rather large tactical utility in a militia setting.
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