Is Stave making fun of Linden?

[Mega Fauna Blitzkrieg]

When he keeps repeating her comment about how she does not forgive? I think she says it out loud like once, and he keeps repeating it forever. I assumed it was him saying that he understood her feelings and or had his eye on her (eye, singular, see what I did there?). But i'm re-reading the original books, and We do not forgive is the Blood Guard motto, they have it sewn onto the back of their tunics.

So maybe rather than simple acknowledgement of her attitude change, Stave is seeing that her attitude is as misguided as his ancestors, and is good-naturedly mocking her, like the Ranhyn did to him (and the other masters) in the horse rite?

[Vraith]

I'll have to watch for the ironic/humorous, since I didn't detect that but my memory is saying...hmmm, maybe.
There's little doubt he's reflecting the idea/judgement the Horses taught him [at himself, his folk, and Linden].
He's also using [how can he not be? He's a Har. becoming enlightened] a martial/philosophical approach. [[ A real one, part of the system/structure of using the opponents own energy/momentum against them.]]

So there could well be some humor of a serious/darkish bent in it.

[peter]

I got the impresion that he was more reminding her of the consequenses of her decision(?) not to forgive than making fun or indeed showing disaproval. The Bloodguard point is a good one - being as they were, held in the highest esteem by their haruchai bretheren.

(can I briefly hi-jack the thread - the making fun thing has just reminded me of something that happened at the end of AATE that I had forgotten - Stave showed the trace of a [wait for it] smile! How changed are the H. How changed)

[Vraith]

Stave showed the trace of a [wait for it] smile! How changed are the H. How changed)

Hee...so far, not very. Only Stave, and for one split [and last] second, his son.
In the past there have been others...but the Har. didn't change, they just learned the wrong lessons from them and rigidified.

But, in the end, [and closer to topic] as Stave has learned about smiles and forgiveness...in the end all the Har. will learn forgiveness...forgiving themselves for being wrong first, then acting to make up for the mistakes.
I'm not sure most of them will live long enough for the smiling part.

[Mega Fauna Blitzkrieg]

Maybe the Harichari will become human at the series finale!

Related note, when do they gain their mind-meld powers? I mean, plot-wise I'm sure they had it all along. But I am halfway through Ill Earth War and the Harrykarrys don't use it/demonstrate it/appear to have it, so far.

But the Lords do.

[peter]

Are you sure it was never mentioned in Lord Fouls Bane (perhaps not overtly but at least implied). I was sure it was with them from the start.

[Mega Fauna Blitzkrieg]

I read a couple of chapters closer to bed time than I should have, but I am pretty confidant there was no mention of the Blood Guard doing their usual Haruchai brainwavetalk.

Bannor never reports what Korik sees while scouting, or prepares for an attack before the scouts return fully to the camp with news of the attack, etc. There aren't even any less overt indicators that I noticed, like...them looking at each other, or seeming to know what the other is thinking etcetc.

So far they mainly are focusing on the Blood Guard's lack of tone/inflection and how their spoken language has a alien/struggle to it. But there hasn't been anything to say that is not just because they are foreigners to the land.

I would be pretty shocked if I missed it, I usually have just ridiculous recall and comprehension, plus I was actually actively looking for examples of them mindmelding starting as soon as he got to Revelstone in LFB.

[rdhopeca]

I read a couple of chapters closer to bed time than I should have, but I am pretty confidant there was no mention of the Blood Guard doing their usual Haruchai brainwavetalk.

Bannor never reports what Korik sees while scouting, or prepares for an attack before the scouts return fully to the camp with news of the attack, etc. There aren't even any less overt indicators that I noticed, like...them looking at each other, or seeming to know what the other is thinking etcetc.

So far they mainly are focusing on the Blood Guard's lack of tone/inflection and how their spoken language has a alien/struggle to it. But there hasn't been anything to say that is not just because they are foreigners to the land.

I would be pretty shocked if I missed it, I usually have just ridiculous recall and comprehension, plus I was actually actively looking for examples of them mindmelding starting as soon as he got to Revelstone in LFB.

I'd have to read the book again, but there are several times where they all share an unspoken heightened awareness, or where one announces that one of them is "returning" when he is out of sight or out of hearing range, where one could infer that the mindspeak was in play.

[dlbpharmd]

I read a couple of chapters closer to bed time than I should have, but I am pretty confidant there was no mention of the Blood Guard doing their usual Haruchai brainwavetalk.

Bannor never reports what Korik sees while scouting, or prepares for an attack before the scouts return fully to the camp with news of the attack, etc. There aren't even any less overt indicators that I noticed, like...them looking at each other, or seeming to know what the other is thinking etcetc.

So far they mainly are focusing on the Blood Guard's lack of tone/inflection and how their spoken language has a alien/struggle to it. But there hasn't been anything to say that is not just because they are foreigners to the land.

I would be pretty shocked if I missed it, I usually have just ridiculous recall and comprehension, plus I was actually actively looking for examples of them mindmelding starting as soon as he got to Revelstone in LFB.

I'd have to read the book again, but there are several times where they all share an unspoken heightened awareness, or where one announces that one of them is "returning" when he is out of sight or out of hearing range, where one could infer that the mindspeak was in play.

I agree that these implications exist in First Chronicles, but the mind speech of the Haruchai isn't overtly defined until Covenant experiences it during the Soothtell.

[rdhopeca]

I read a couple of chapters closer to bed time than I should have, but I am pretty confidant there was no mention of the Blood Guard doing their usual Haruchai brainwavetalk.

Bannor never reports what Korik sees while scouting, or prepares for an attack before the scouts return fully to the camp with news of the attack, etc. There aren't even any less overt indicators that I noticed, like...them looking at each other, or seeming to know what the other is thinking etcetc.

So far they mainly are focusing on the Blood Guard's lack of tone/inflection and how their spoken language has a alien/struggle to it. But there hasn't been anything to say that is not just because they are foreigners to the land.

I would be pretty shocked if I missed it, I usually have just ridiculous recall and comprehension, plus I was actually actively looking for examples of them mindmelding starting as soon as he got to Revelstone in LFB.

I'd have to read the book again, but there are several times where they all share an unspoken heightened awareness, or where one announces that one of them is "returning" when he is out of sight or out of hearing range, where one could infer that the mindspeak was in play.

I agree that these implications exist in First Chronicles, but the mind speech of the Haruchai isn't overtly defined until Covenant experiences it during the Soothtell.

It's totally implied for sure but it's there. Remember the fall of Lord Shetra...the line is:

The Bloodguard knew that Cerrin was dead.

After a few comments about how Cerrin would call out to them if he needed help. Cerrin is underwater, so mind speech would have been the only way.

[dlbpharmd]

I'd have to read the book again, but there are several times where they all share an unspoken heightened awareness, or where one announces that one of them is "returning" when he is out of sight or out of hearing range, where one could infer that the mindspeak was in play.

I agree that these implications exist in First Chronicles, but the mind speech of the Haruchai isn't overtly defined until Covenant experiences it during the Soothtell.

It's totally implied for sure but it's there. Remember the fall of Lord Shetra...the line is:

The Bloodguard knew that Cerrin was dead.

After a few comments about how Cerrin would call out to them if he needed help. Cerrin is underwater, so mind speech would have been the only way.

I agree. You've made me recall Gilden-Fire, which contains many examples of mind speech.

[Mega Fauna Blitzkrieg]

I didn't make it back to that part yet, i'm spending too much time posting here and not enough time reading. The Warward just marched out of Revelstone en masse.

The only other time they've had something similar is when the Blood Guard scouts return with Llaura and Pietten, I think Bannor announces their return, but I think also they are visible by that point, 'cuz Covvey looks over and sees them as well.

[peter]

I think the section you are approaching - the forced march and the retreat to Doriendor Corishev are the hardest bits to read in the whole series and all the better for being written from Troy's perspective.

[Mega Fauna Blitzkrieg]

Hardest bits as in what, boring? Or sympathetic pain to the plight of the soldiers? Or something else?

I remember IEW as being my favorite/probably the best of the first 6 books. But that opinion hasn't been updated in like 15 years, so we will see. I most likely favored it the most as it had the majority of the large epic battle scenes, and the lords kicking ass and using their powers, and was generally the most Lord of the rings-y. Which at the time I loved.

[peter]

Sorry MFB - badly put on my part. Hard as in the level of emotional intensity generated is here, higher than at any other point in the series. I agree about the Illearth War - wait - no I don't; the whole first series is just awesome - I can't seearate out one book BUT TIEW is fantastic! It just tears my heart out to read what is asked of the warward - and what they give.

[Billy G.]

Hile Troy kicked arse as a logistical specialist, that's for sure. He had the numbers and days down to a tee at one point!

Until that part where he said the Warward would have to RUN the last few marches. Guess his calculations were a hair off.

[Mega Fauna Blitzkrieg]

I found a hint in the chapter Runnik's tale which could be taken either way. Since we know they have that power I guess we will take it *that* way, but it is still pretty ambiguous.

Morin orders Runnik to "speak so that the lords may hear you."

[Billy G.]

Getting back to the OP - maybe he is pointing out the irony of Linden's unforgiveness because she kept having a cow about the Haruchi unforgiveness to the Ramen and visca versa.