So, here we go:
1. My overall impression is one of profound disappointment - as in, "that's all there is?" Sure, we've always known TC and LF would become one. And, it's been a sure prediction that somehow TC and the Creator are one, and that TC would re-make the world. Still, I expected SRD to throw something new and unexpected into the mix in some Martinesque way. However, the ending was pretty straight forward, and any fan of the Chronicles who has participated in the Watch discussions and dissections could've written this ending.
2. I am also disappointed that there was no final solution to Lord Foul. My own thoughts that he would somehow escape Time (taken by She, perhaps) didn't pan out, and that's OK. But, as soon as TC dies, Foul will be released on the Land, find moksha, and start making trouble again in some new way. In a way, what we have is the ending of TPTP all over again.
3. My membership and loyalty to THOOLAH has been reaffirmed. With Giants and Haruchai dying all around her, LA refused to fight. What a crock.
4. It was great to see Brinn again, and also great to see the Haruchai redeemed at the end. Stave is the greatest of the Haruchai.
5. I was surprised to see no redemption for Roger. He met his end after attacking LF, not out of love of his father or the Land, nor out of sorrow for his actions, but out of hatred for being betrayed.
6. "I am MYSELF!" was really, really weak.
7. Great end for the ur-viles and waynhim!
More later.....
TLD First Impressions
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thranathiril
- Woodhelvennin
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It seemed to be going so well, and then, like a US TV series running out of plot ideas - LA and TC get MARRIED?!!!?
I suspected something along those lines would happen, since an early review talked about "Covenant and his wife" but it seemed completely out of character.
Apart from that, and from what I have seen from a flickthrough read, the
body count amogst the good guys is pleasingly high
[mod edit to remove spoiler tags]
I suspected something along those lines would happen, since an early review talked about "Covenant and his wife" but it seemed completely out of character.
Apart from that, and from what I have seen from a flickthrough read, the
body count amogst the good guys is pleasingly high
[mod edit to remove spoiler tags]
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thranathiril
- Woodhelvennin
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- Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:45 pm
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I understand the reasoning, but I don't buy it. Just because Joan's dead doesn't mean her ring is now Covenant's to do with as he wants.thranathiril wrote:The marriage did serve the function of having both TC and LA have their "own" white gold.
Beforehand, TC had Joan's ring and Linden had Covenant's.
When they exchanged rings, Joan's ring became Linden's "by right".
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PannionDude
- Servant of the Land
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Things I loved:
#1: The Lurker & Co's being able to balk the Wyrm. It makes total sense to me that the engineered off switch for the Creator's world wouldn't be able to properly handle the Banes that Foul illicitly planted in there.
#2: Kastenessan showing up when they activated the temple. Of course he did, makes perfect sense.
#3: Jeremiah's POV. His unstable psyche made for a great contrast to LA and TC's heroic resolve. I liked basically all of his portions.
#4: Their resolution with LF. He can't be killed, so he must be imprisoned. But that's just status quo from the beginning. They seek to change his gaol from a place of torment to one where he can be redeemed. The only possible solution (if it is, indeed, possible, there's a viewpoint that he will ALWAYS interpret any prison as a torture chamber).
#5: The revelation that the Creator hadn't warned Linden because he knew she would save Jeremiah, and Jeremiah was needed to redeem the Land.
#6: The overwhelming decency of the good guys remains intact, despite the Despiser's best efforts. The last scene, with an envoy immediately being dispatched to apologize to the Cave Wights, really brought it home for me. I like to imagine that the Lurker survived and will be brought into accomodation with the new Lords.
Bonus: Branl and Clyme kill the Raver. As you do.
Things I disliked:
#1: I get that Stave is great. I actually liked most of the times that he saved the day. I thought his best scene was climbing the cliff and getting the malachite. I could have done without him then heroicly setting it atop the temple, to say nothing of him saving the day in the end.
#1a: I'd like some acknowledgement that he was in love with Linden as well. Just saying.
#2: I liked, a LOT, the idea of a confrontation with the Masters over their mastery. Its the sort of thing SRD could write 8 chapters on. But I wish it hadn't happened in the last hours of the world. Protags are effectively able to just point at the clock, the Masters defer not to reason, but to necessity. (maybe the only way to get through to them, but I wish it wasn't so).
#1: The Lurker & Co's being able to balk the Wyrm. It makes total sense to me that the engineered off switch for the Creator's world wouldn't be able to properly handle the Banes that Foul illicitly planted in there.
#2: Kastenessan showing up when they activated the temple. Of course he did, makes perfect sense.
#3: Jeremiah's POV. His unstable psyche made for a great contrast to LA and TC's heroic resolve. I liked basically all of his portions.
#4: Their resolution with LF. He can't be killed, so he must be imprisoned. But that's just status quo from the beginning. They seek to change his gaol from a place of torment to one where he can be redeemed. The only possible solution (if it is, indeed, possible, there's a viewpoint that he will ALWAYS interpret any prison as a torture chamber).
#5: The revelation that the Creator hadn't warned Linden because he knew she would save Jeremiah, and Jeremiah was needed to redeem the Land.
#6: The overwhelming decency of the good guys remains intact, despite the Despiser's best efforts. The last scene, with an envoy immediately being dispatched to apologize to the Cave Wights, really brought it home for me. I like to imagine that the Lurker survived and will be brought into accomodation with the new Lords.
Bonus: Branl and Clyme kill the Raver. As you do.
Things I disliked:
#1: I get that Stave is great. I actually liked most of the times that he saved the day. I thought his best scene was climbing the cliff and getting the malachite. I could have done without him then heroicly setting it atop the temple, to say nothing of him saving the day in the end.
#1a: I'd like some acknowledgement that he was in love with Linden as well. Just saying.
#2: I liked, a LOT, the idea of a confrontation with the Masters over their mastery. Its the sort of thing SRD could write 8 chapters on. But I wish it hadn't happened in the last hours of the world. Protags are effectively able to just point at the clock, the Masters defer not to reason, but to necessity. (maybe the only way to get through to them, but I wish it wasn't so).
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thranathiril
- Woodhelvennin
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- Location: Bermuda
How did it become Joan's in the first place? By Covenant giving it to her, presumably.dlbpharmd wrote:I understand the reasoning, but I don't buy it. Just because Joan's dead doesn't mean her ring is now Covenant's to do with as he wants.thranathiril wrote:The marriage did serve the function of having both TC and LA have their "own" white gold.
Beforehand, TC had Joan's ring and Linden had Covenant's.
When they exchanged rings, Joan's ring became Linden's "by right".
Yes, of course, and then what happened? Joan divorced Covenant.thranathiril wrote:How did it become Joan's in the first place? By Covenant giving it to her, presumably.dlbpharmd wrote:I understand the reasoning, but I don't buy it. Just because Joan's dead doesn't mean her ring is now Covenant's to do with as he wants.thranathiril wrote:The marriage did serve the function of having both TC and LA have their "own" white gold.
Beforehand, TC had Joan's ring and Linden had Covenant's.
When they exchanged rings, Joan's ring became Linden's "by right".
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sherifffruitfly2
- Servant of the Land
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Iolanthe
- The Gap Into Spam
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Just finished. Loved it. I'll have to read it again now more carefully as there were several bits I didn't understand.
It did say that the two rings made their wearers after the "marriage" the rightful ringbearers due to the vows they had made. The word "vow" was in there somewhere if not exactly as put above.
Had several tissue moments, and read the epilogue through an almost constant blur!
Stave caused at least three of the tissue moments.
It did say that the two rings made their wearers after the "marriage" the rightful ringbearers due to the vows they had made. The word "vow" was in there somewhere if not exactly as put above.
Had several tissue moments, and read the epilogue through an almost constant blur!
Stave caused at least three of the tissue moments.
I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order!
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
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QuantumMechanic
- Servant of the Land
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- Location: Arlington, MA
Re: TLD First Impressions
Yeah, that was along the lines of my overall impression as well.dlbpharmd wrote:I shouldn't have to say this, since this is in TLD forum, but spoiler alert!!!!
So, here we go:
1. My overall impression is one of profound disappointment - as in, "that's all there is?" (snip)
Though I think for me just plain 'ol disappointment as opposed to profound disappointment.In addition to what you said in your point 1 and some other points (I wanted to slap Linden and "I am MYSELF" was lame-o, for example), some of the battle scenes just dragged on and on. I think the pages could have been better spent on characterization and setting up the ending better.
There certainly were some wonderful scenes -- Branl and Clyme and the Raver. Or Stave in some many places.
But also too, too much "meh" and a paint-by-numbers ending.
I find that I am satisfied on many levels, and disappointed on a couple. Mainly, I am trying to deal with the story as SRD wrote it and how I wished it would have been. In the end, it is his story, and so I have to find a way to be content with what he has done.
A couple things I was quite disappointed by:
Longwrath's wordless demise. While I understand how his arrival was timely, and his last act necessary, I just felt deflated by how little import was really given to his character. It felt like ticking something off a list.
I AM ME!! Really? THAT's Her name? WTF?? While that scene and chapter as a whole had some great moments of writing (we got to go to the Lost Deep one last time, which pleased me to no end!, Linden removing women from She as a form of restitution was satisfying), that one part about her name was just weak, IMO.
The very last image of the last chapter was beautiful. Linden, Jeremiah and TC burning with power and setting off to remake the world. Expected, but awesome. And then we get absolutely no description of how they accomplished the task?!?!? I'm not asking for much, but maybe a page of describing the effort... I mean, even when Linden was phasing in and out of reality at the end of WGW, we got to see how she eliminated the Sunbane and started the healing of the Land. So why the hell did we not get some form of description about how the Land was restructured??? Gut reaction, that is the most disappointing part to me (so far after a first reading).
A couple things I loved:
TC figuring out how to use the krill with wild magic to travel great distances. While I understand that this was a needed narrative component of the story (since the company had to get where they needed to go very quickly), I just loved TC using his intuition to come to a conclusion about how he could use his power constructively, then just doing it. About damn time!
Haruchai wielding weapons! YES!
Personally, I loved having the Anchormaster's crew show up when they did. Even though most of the Giants have been pretty much two-dimensional throughout these Last Chronicles, just having new Giantish names to read when all is turning to dust and death...they were gems to me, tiny little beacons, viridian word nuggets...
Ok, there's lots more, but I am stopping there for now.
A couple things I was quite disappointed by:
Longwrath's wordless demise. While I understand how his arrival was timely, and his last act necessary, I just felt deflated by how little import was really given to his character. It felt like ticking something off a list.
I AM ME!! Really? THAT's Her name? WTF?? While that scene and chapter as a whole had some great moments of writing (we got to go to the Lost Deep one last time, which pleased me to no end!, Linden removing women from She as a form of restitution was satisfying), that one part about her name was just weak, IMO.
The very last image of the last chapter was beautiful. Linden, Jeremiah and TC burning with power and setting off to remake the world. Expected, but awesome. And then we get absolutely no description of how they accomplished the task?!?!? I'm not asking for much, but maybe a page of describing the effort... I mean, even when Linden was phasing in and out of reality at the end of WGW, we got to see how she eliminated the Sunbane and started the healing of the Land. So why the hell did we not get some form of description about how the Land was restructured??? Gut reaction, that is the most disappointing part to me (so far after a first reading).
A couple things I loved:
TC figuring out how to use the krill with wild magic to travel great distances. While I understand that this was a needed narrative component of the story (since the company had to get where they needed to go very quickly), I just loved TC using his intuition to come to a conclusion about how he could use his power constructively, then just doing it. About damn time!
Haruchai wielding weapons! YES!
Personally, I loved having the Anchormaster's crew show up when they did. Even though most of the Giants have been pretty much two-dimensional throughout these Last Chronicles, just having new Giantish names to read when all is turning to dust and death...they were gems to me, tiny little beacons, viridian word nuggets...
Ok, there's lots more, but I am stopping there for now.
"Verily, wisdom is like hunger. Perhaps it is a very fine thing--but who would willingly partake of it."
--Saltheart Foamfollower
"Latency--what is concealed--is the demonstrable presence of the future."
--Jean Gebser
--Saltheart Foamfollower
"Latency--what is concealed--is the demonstrable presence of the future."
--Jean Gebser
I agree. Now that it is over, and we know how the story ends, I find myself wishing for more - just as I have after completing 1st and 2nd Chronicles. Only this time we know that this is truly the end, that there will be no more. This is not what I expected to feel.Mainly, I am trying to deal with the story as SRD wrote it and how I wished it would have been. In the end, it is his story, and so I have to find a way to be content with what he has done.
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call11back
- Servant of the Land
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Haven't you heard? First Chronicles of Linden Avery is slated for Fall 2016.dlbpharmd wrote:I agree. Now that it is over, and we know how the story ends, I find myself wishing for more - just as I have after completing 1st and 2nd Chronicles. Only this time we know that this is truly the end, that there will be no more. This is not what I expected to feel.Mainly, I am trying to deal with the story as SRD wrote it and how I wished it would have been. In the end, it is his story, and so I have to find a way to be content with what he has done.
Now that there's funny. I don't care who you are.call11back wrote:Haven't you heard? First Chronicles of Linden Avery is slated for Fall 2016.dlbpharmd wrote:I agree. Now that it is over, and we know how the story ends, I find myself wishing for more - just as I have after completing 1st and 2nd Chronicles. Only this time we know that this is truly the end, that there will be no more. This is not what I expected to feel.Mainly, I am trying to deal with the story as SRD wrote it and how I wished it would have been. In the end, it is his story, and so I have to find a way to be content with what he has done.
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rdhopeca
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Overall I was happy with this, however there were several moments where I felt "is that all there is"? Where you could *tell* that SRD probably cut more than he should of. That left me either unhappy or thinking "eh?"...
1. Kastenessen's fate. While it made sense, to have him, Longwrath, and Infelice's issues all solved in one fell swoop, without any more depth to the former Appointed, felt shortened to me.
2. The SHE reveal. Really? That's all? I reread several times thinking there had been a mistake.
3. The SHE Right Hook To Foul. Felt almost haphazardly thrown in. SHE can stop long enough to slap but not long enough for even a word or two?
4. The merge with Foul. No substance to it.
5. The end, similar, no substantive description of the rebuilding of the Arch.
6. The possession of Jeremiah by moksha. Been there, done that, with Linden. Seemed repetitive.
7. The marriage proposal. Felt forced and not in context. I would have thought TC to have been more subdued in that moment than he was.
But other than that, I am overall happy with it and as I think we all know it's better than most of the stuff out there today...
1. Kastenessen's fate. While it made sense, to have him, Longwrath, and Infelice's issues all solved in one fell swoop, without any more depth to the former Appointed, felt shortened to me.
2. The SHE reveal. Really? That's all? I reread several times thinking there had been a mistake.
3. The SHE Right Hook To Foul. Felt almost haphazardly thrown in. SHE can stop long enough to slap but not long enough for even a word or two?
4. The merge with Foul. No substance to it.
5. The end, similar, no substantive description of the rebuilding of the Arch.
6. The possession of Jeremiah by moksha. Been there, done that, with Linden. Seemed repetitive.
7. The marriage proposal. Felt forced and not in context. I would have thought TC to have been more subdued in that moment than he was.
But other than that, I am overall happy with it and as I think we all know it's better than most of the stuff out there today...
Rob
"Progress is made. Be warned."
"Progress is made. Be warned."