Things that you were expecting, which just didn't happen

Post by **bwahlberg** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:45 pm

Hope this is an okay idea for a thread. Like many, I first read the chronicles in the late 70's and early 80's. With so much time for speculation and anticipation, we have all come to expect certain things to happen by the end. Now it is here. What was there that you expected, but which simply didn't happen?

Mine was a reappearance by the creator. After the cosmic dust settled, I expected the survivors to be able to converse with him. After all, did the heroes not save both his earth and his bacon? But no. No ochre robe, nothing at all. I can only assume that thematically, TC and LA had risen to fill his role, replacing him in a way, so that there was no point in his saying anything. (Thanks, maybe?) Or, maybe the heroes didn't ever get close enough back to the "real" world for him to be able to reach them. But if SRD wanted to justify a conversation, he'd have found way.

Post by **bluefoxicy** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:13 am

Linden never invoked the name of Kenaustin Ardenol to ask for aid.

Also in the last book, I expected the final ending to be simple failure. When it was explained that foul had to escape or die with time, I expected them to simply try to imprison him while the arch collapsed so he would be destroyed with everything else.

I didn't expect, but wanted, some explanation as to wtf the creator was doing! Why in the HELL would he put A-Jeroth in the Land, where he couldn't reach him, to wreak havoc over people he couldn't protect?!

I also expected the true name of Love to be revealed. I suppose Donaldson didn't believe he had the right. Unless that name is Emereau Vrai.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:42 am

Small thing: At the end, with TC accepting Foul into himself, I was very much expecting him to make explicit the whole thing where him having Foul inside him is equivalent to the leprosy that he had considered necessary to his survival and efficacy. It's a very important point, one that was clearly intended, but SRD never pursued it even when he had the chance to in the epilogue.

Post by **call11back** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:33 am

I expected the Creator to make an appearance before the end. And I expected to see the Theomach at least once more.

Post by **Savor Dam** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:55 am

I'm Murrin wrote:Small thing: At the end, with TC accepting Foul into himself, I was very much expecting him to make explicit the whole thing where him having Foul inside him is equivalent to the leprosy that he had considered necessary to his survival and efficacy. It's a very important point, one that was clearly intended, but SRD never pursued it even when he had the chance to in the epilogue.

I like that insight, Murrin. Well done!

Post by **Mighara Sovmadhi** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:58 am

I predicted that the final showdown would not take place in Kiril Threndor, and I also predicted the final confrontation would be in part with the Worm. I also expected the One Tree to be dead and regrown, not resolved in the epilogue.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:26 pm

I didn't expect for this, but I hoped to learn the story of how the Ramen came to care and protect the Ranyhyn.

Post by **TheFallen** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:38 pm

I'd hoped for the story of how the Theomach aka Kenaustin Ardenol overcame the elohim originally appointed to preserve the One Tree (I presume he had to do this when he and Berek first discovered the One Tree).

Post by **Domne** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:49 am

I was hoping for more Creator, though Donaldson seems to keep with his theme that humans no longer need their gods (ala This Day All Gods Die) from the Wagner stuff that influenced him. Also I kind of expected Foul to escape and a more cosmic battle to ensue.

Post by **Horrim Carabal** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:22 am

I expected a dour, downer of an ending. I am not ashamed to admit I was shocked by the "happy" ending. I was by no means disappointed! Just shocked.

Post by **native** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:48 pm

Horrim Carabal wrote:I expected a dour, downer of an ending. I am not ashamed to admit I was shocked by the "happy" ending. I was by no means disappointed! Just shocked.

As it goes I think a more downbeat ending would have worked better. It was all a bit 'Field of Cormallen' at the end. And who was that Acolyte? Talk about irrelevant.

Post by **Pinone** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:25 pm

Hm. Well, I thought either Roger (or, at times, Jeremiah) would become Lord Foul. And I expected Linden to become SWMNBN...Linden sacrificing herself by going back in time along with Roger/LF to transform into those archetypal characters.

Or, failing that, regardless of the ending, I was hoping that we would be given a very, very, very subtle clue that all of this was in fact a dream...but not in an obvious Bob Newhart kind of way, but more like at the end of inception. But if that clue is there I missed it during the first read.

For the ending that we actually got, I thought an appropriate 2nd epilogue would be seeing an aged Jeremiah, after Thomas and Linden have both passed away, in an ochre robe confronting a new person on the street...

Post by **Savor Dam** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:29 pm

Well, we probably can lay that happy ending at the feet of Seareach. SRD's dedication page certainly suggests that she, as one of his advance readers, advocated for a happy ending because "all proper stories end that way..."

Post by **Horrim Carabal** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:07 pm

Pinone wrote: I thought an appropriate 2nd epilogue would be seeing an aged Jeremiah, after Thomas and Linden have both passed away, in an ochre robe confronting a new person on the street...

Good God, that sounds terrible. Thankfully he didn't write that.

Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:51 pm

I expected that the incident that made the hole in Linden's shirt would effectively be recreated in the Land.

I also expected Linden to confront the Worm with Forbidding.

And I expected that SHE"s true name would be revealed. But apparently SHE doesn't have one.

Post by **Pinone** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:55 am

Well, the irony is that-- for a series that supposedly is too enmeshed in internal dialogue to ever be filmed as a movie-- we got a largely "mindless violence" conclusion capped off with a Hollywood ending.

He should have stopped at six books. The first two Chronicles were the greatest fantasy series ever-- bar none. Now the ten books are just another good one.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:47 pm

I expected that the incident that made the hole in Linden's shirt would effectively be recreated in the Land.

Great point! Should've happened for Jeremiah also.

He should have stopped at six books. The first two Chronicles were the greatest fantasy series ever

Sadly, I tend to agree.

Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:02 pm

Pinone wrote:Well, the irony is that-- for a series that supposedly is too enmeshed in internal dialogue to ever be filmed as a movie-- we got a largely "mindless violence" conclusion capped off with a Hollywood ending.

He should have stopped at six books. The first two Chronicles were the greatest fantasy series ever-- bar none. Now the ten books are just another good one.

That ending, by the way, involved a rainbow - Donaldson's God-like promise that there will never again be an end-of-days cataclysm.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:35 pm

dlbpharmd wrote:
He should have stopped at six books. The first two Chronicles were the greatest fantasy series ever
Sadly, I tend to agree.

It is indeed sad that you haven't read a better fantasy series.

(I kid, I kid. "Better" and "best" are hard things to pin down.)

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:19 pm

Roger and Thomas......just so weakly done.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Things that you were expecting, which just didn't happen

Things that you were expecting, which just didn't happen