The Latest Potentially-Explosive Racially-Charged Murder

[kevinswatch]

Setting the whole race issue aside, there are two things about this whole event that really bother me:

1) I believe that the fact that Brown was shot six times is ridiculous. A cop shouldn't pump six bullets into an unarmed person execution style like this is Die Hard movie or something. Ridiculous. I don't care if this kid robbed a store. I don't care if the kid attacked the cop first. Shooting someone six times is excessive and scary as hell.

2) The over-militarization of the police force scares the hell out of me too. SWAT teams are one thing. But why the hell did they respond to the initial protests and riots with freaking snipers and tanks. What are they going to do? Shoot at a crowd of people with a howitzer cannon? Ridiculous.

I want to live in a society where the police exist to help the public. Serve our best interests at heart. Not instill fear.

-jay

[Zarathustra]

The "military" response to the crowd of protesters was ridiculous. Notice how things calmed down once the Highway Patrol took over, and down-scaled the police presence.

I really wish I could leave it there, and say my point against militarization was proven. But peaceful protesters have turned into (or been infiltrated by) violent law breakers. What then? If militarizing the police can't stop a town from being burned down, then people are just going to conclude that they're not militarized enough.

Regarding the 6 bullets ... I've heard reports that Brown was charging and would not stop. The first 4 hit him in the arm, not stopping him. Is the cop supposed to just stand there and let himself be attacked? It's quite possible that he was on drugs that kept him ramped up and unaffected by the first 4 shots.

I agree that it sounds horrible, but I have to acknowledge there might be facts that can explain it.

[kevinswatch]

I agree with you on both parts. Both that we don't know the circumstances on why he was shot six times, and that it was a shame that violence in Ferguson spiraled again out of control over the weekend after calming down.

I'm just sad that was live in a world where these things happen.

-jay

[SoulBiter]

Im not saying he deserved to be shot but here is Brown (The 'victim' of the shooting) as he robbed the store and assaulted the store owner. Not quite the bright eyed youngster that the media would like you to think.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

No one waits for evidence any more, not the public and certainly not the media who are too eager to be the first to scoop a story. Six shots to the front, including two in the head, negates any claims of him being shot in the back like the one "eyewitness" claimed. Of course, we still don't know if he had a weapon--it doesn't appear that he did at this time--and we don't know what chemical enhancements he might have had. Still....you shouldn't be detained and/or questioned for walking in the street when a simple "hey! get out of the street" will suffice.

Mr. Brown's shooting is merely the straw and it is shaping up not to be a case of "the poor young man who was gunned down by the police". The dramatic response of the Ferguson PD and the rioting are the camel's broken back, though, and are endemic problems which still haven't been solved. Too many black people think the police are there just to corral them and/or shoot them like cattle and this mindset is continuously being fed by various media outlets, as Cail noted.

Seriously, rioting never solves anything. There are buildings in Los Angeles which are abandoned to this day after being attacked and looted during the Watts riots and those were, what, nearly 40 years ago now?

In the meantime, I see that a handful of young black men have been killed in Chicago over the last two weeks but no one is saying a word about them. Is it because their deaths were at the hands of other young black men and many of these guys have gang affiliations?

[Cail]

In the meantime, I see that a handful of young black men have been killed in Chicago over the last two weeks but no one is saying a word about them. Is it because their deaths were at the hands of other young black men and many of these guys have gang affiliations?

Bingo. It makes better news to harp on this because it feeds the popular narrative, reality be damned.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Ferguson made it onto Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, who also touches on the topic of overly militarized police.

He ends with a great idea after noting how Gov. Nixon decided to treat everyone in Ferguson as a suspected criminal: take away FPD's military gear and if they can go an entire month without killing another black person they get to have their f-ing toys back.

He also notes a picture where FPD are pointing their guns at a person with their arms raised then he cuts to a military adviser who notes that in the military they are trained never to point a weapon at someone they are not ready and willing to shoot. The problem is that all these Deputy Fifes have more than one bullet.

[Vraith]

He also notes a picture where FPD are pointing their guns at a person with their arms raised then he cuts to a military adviser who notes that in the military they are trained never to point a weapon at someone they are not ready and willing to shoot.

Heh...yea, somewhere this week I ran across an article that cited the 8 or 10 specific things these cops are doing that directly violate the actual procedures the real military trains on how to handle these situations. That point was one of them. [[author was pretty ticked off at people calling this kind of thing "militarization.]]

[Ananda]

In the meantime, I see that a handful of young black men have been killed in Chicago over the last two weeks but no one is saying a word about them. Is it because their deaths were at the hands of other young black men and many of these guys have gang affiliations?

Bingo. It makes better news to harp on this because it feeds the popular narrative, reality be damned.

I can agree that your 24/7 news feeds all try to jerk you from one outrage to the next, pumping everything up.

But, let me ask you: Is it just these people that it affects? I ask, because I see americans constantly jumping from the latest outrage to the next like poodles jumping through hoops. Left, right, middle: doesn't matter.

I think you are right in that there is a leading by the emotions, anger and so to keep people constantly spinning (preferably in the direction that the spinners benefit from) and divided. But, what are they tapping into when they wind people up?

Is there an underlying dissatisfaction with things that these groups, media corporations, special interests take advantage of? Are they tapping into a justifiable anger and deranging it, manipulating it to work for their own interests?

I think there are many good reasons for people in the us to be angry, but what I see seems like a cycle of the spectacle. Is there a justifiable anger? And, is it not being co-opted on all sides?

[Cail]

I don't see much justification. People just like being wound up about things...Outrage gives them a sense of purpose and moral superiority. Everyone's worked up about what happened in Ferguson, no one cares about the hundreds of black men killed so far this year due to gang violence and the drug trade.

'Cause that doesn't fit the narrative.

[Ananda]

I don't see much justification. People just like being wound up about things...Outrage gives them a sense of purpose and moral superiority. Everyone's worked up about what happened in Ferguson, no one cares about the hundreds of black men killed so far this year due to gang violence and the drug trade.

'Cause that doesn't fit the narrative.

You are definitely right about 'doesn't fit the narrative,' but I think that it goes both ways and all sides are equally led by the nose. I am talking about the bigger picture of the ongoing spectacle and cycle of outrage, not just this incident. And, it's not just these people or those, but all people in that cycle from all sides. Even posters here talk about the latest outrage or spectacle only to drop it when the next latest outrage comes to replace it. I think it is a cycle of manipulation from the left, right and middle and you guys are kept jumping through hoops, off balance and at odds with each other. God forbid people started to work together for common betterment of the majority and not the plutocracy. Cui bono?

Hope I did explain that correctly.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

That is the very crux of the problem, Ananda. Outrage sells news (and make no mistake about it--Big News is Big Business) but the trick is not to make too many people too upset for too long. Rock the boat a little, just enough to get group A upset at/about group B, and you can tap into a little bit of frustration just long enough for that particular group to feel sated and satisfied that their grievances got aired before you move on to the next two groups and the next scandal/breaking news story. 1% vs. 99%, Democrat vs. Republican, labor union vs employers, religious group vs. atheist, closely/privately-held corporation vs. ACA, taxpayers vs. unemployed, white vs. black, citizens vs. illegal aliens, etc. It's all a media game and they sell it to us 24 hours per day, 7 days per week, 365 days per year.

The end result of all this moderate boat-rocking? Nothing. In the long run, this police officer will move away from Ferguson and get a similar job in another city, the internal investigation won't result in a grand jury indictment, there won't be a trial, but they family will sue and probably win a decent settlement that the city will wind up arbitrating down to half and within a year or so the story will be one of "remember when....". The burned-out/looted businesses will receive their insurance settlements, possibly reopen, and everyone will go back to business as usual except at the Brown household. Even the out-of-town flame instigators like Sharpton will move on when the righteous indignation dies down and the national media start to leave.

[SerScot]

Is there any way to justify officers removing all identifying information from their uniforms?

i.imgur.com/xlqu45r.jpg

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Yes, from the officer's point of view. If there is no identifying information on their uniform then a protester who gets beaten or pepper-sprayed cannot identify the officer who committed the abuse.

Many law enforcement personnel are in law enforcement because a) they couldn't make it into the military, b) they are out of the military but miss carrying around a gun, c) they want to be able to inflate their balls and order people about to "respect mah authoritai", or d) some combination of a, b, and c.

[SerScot]

Hashi,

Please allow me to rephrase. Is there any way to legally justify the officers removing all identifying information from their uniforms? This can't be okay, can it?

[SerScot]

11 different Journalists have been arrested over the course of the Ferguson protests:

edition.cnn.com/2014/08/19/us/ferguson-journalists-arrested/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

What the hell are these officers thinking?

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Please excuse my sarcasm--sometimes it has a life of its own. No, it is never okay for officers to remove their identifying information.

I'll bet if you go up to those guys and ask them for their names and badge numbers you will win a free trip to a holding cell for 72 hours, presuming they don't find some illegal contraband on you while putting you under arrest. *nudge* *wink* Hell, you probably "resisted arrest", as well; this explains the bruises.

This part from the article you cite says it all:

Three journalists from German newspapers were also taken into custody on Monday evening. Two of them, Ansgar Graw and Frank Herrmann of the newspaper Die Welt, were detained for three hours and then released without any charges.

"This was a very new experience," Graw wrote, according to an English-language translation of his German-language account. "I've been in several conflict zones: I was in the civil war regions in Georgia, the Gaza strip, illegally visited the Kaliningrad region when travel to the Soviet Union was still strictly prohibited for westerners, I've been in Iraq, Vietnam and in China, I've met Cuba dissidents. But to be arrested and yelled at and be rudely treated by police? For that I had to travel to Ferguson and St. Louis in the United States of America."

[Cail]

This is a really good question.....

Why Are There No News Helicopters Over Ferguson?

[Zarathustra]

Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures from Michael Brown

The Gateway Pundit can now confirm from two local St. Louis sources that police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his confrontation with deceased 18 year-old Michael Brown. Officer Wilson clearly feared for his life during the incident that led to the shooting death of Brown. This was after Michael Brown and his accomplice Dorian Johnson robbed a local Ferguson convenience store.

Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.” This comes from a source within the District Attorney’s office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police.

A blowout fracture is a fracture of one or more of the bones surrounding the eye and is commonly referred to as an orbital floor fracture. (AAPOS)

This comes after St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter tweeted out last night that a dozen local witnesses confirmed Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson’s version of the Brown shooting story.

So it looks like I was right, this will turn out to be a lot of black people jumping to judgment in support of a violent thief who was killed because he attacked a police officer after committing a robbery. That means they prejudged the white cop, based on his race. They profiled the cop, by assuming he was guilty due to his skin color. They're guilty of exactly the same thing they're complaining about. They're the racists, who judge people in this manner, and end up supporting the wrong person, and tearing apart their own town to do it.

We do have a race problem. That's obvious. If this were white racists tearing apart their town and attacking police in racially prejudiced support of a white criminal who was killed by a black cop, this would be an entirely different story.

I understand the anti-militarization sentiments here. I agree with many of the criticisms of the police. But the cop at the center of this most likely was right, and the community was wrong. Black crime, black violence, black prejudice brought us to this place.

Ferguson, a predominantly black town, has a higher crime rate than the rest of the country, btw. Despite this higher crime rate, and despite a majority white police force, this is the first time a cop has shot someone in Ferguson. Ferguson doesn't have a "white cops murdering blacks" problem. It has a crime problem.

Anti-militarization critics won't have much credibility if they don't recognize that in some situations, it's warranted. This town is out of control. Its citizens have turned into a mob, complete with calls for mob justice.

Police are taking fire at night now. I mean gunshots. It's becoming a war zone. I'm not saying that worrying about unwarranted arrests and missing name tags isn't important, but the violence is escalating. We can't ignore that.

[kevinswatch]

Lots of good points. This whole thing just keeps getting sadder and sadder.

-jay