The Latest Potentially-Explosive Racially-Charged Murder

Archive From The 'Tank
Locked
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 61651
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Post by Avatar »

Fist and Faith wrote:...if we want to stop the insanity, we need to address those emotions...
Not just on the specific issue of racism either. Seems like elections have fallen prey to the same issues too...

--A
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

Democrats decided that they could not win on substance. So they decided that claiming Republicans were evil would work. And racism is evil, so boom goes the dynamite.
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

sgt.null wrote:Fist - we had riots thd first night in Houston. The police made a bunch of arrests that night and we haven't had a problem since.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/loca ... en-friday/

This is what should have happened nationwide. An adult response.
If Biden wins, Democrats will need riots to end and they will crack down hard.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

I am certain all the Democrats who refused federal help will be accepting it in exchange for federal money 💰. The Democrats snd grift , a partnership made in hell.
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23439
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

sgt.null wrote:Democrats decided that they could not win on substance. So they decided that claiming Republicans were evil would work. And racism is evil, so boom goes the dynamite.
You are all as bad as each other. I heard the hate toward Obama for eight years. I heard shouts of "Liar!" at the SotUA. Don't try to claim any moral high-ground, or I'll bust you down to cpl. Nobody here claims the other side is evil more than you do.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
Gaius Octavius
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 3331
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:32 pm

Post by Gaius Octavius »

sgt.null wrote:I am certain all the Democrats who refused federal help will be accepting it in exchange for federal money 💰. The Democrats snd grift , a partnership made in hell.
Image
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

Fist and Faith wrote:
sgt.null wrote:Democrats decided that they could not win on substance. So they decided that claiming Republicans were evil would work. And racism is evil, so boom goes the dynamite.
You are all as bad as each other. I heard the hate toward Obama for eight years. I heard shouts of "Liar!" at the SotUA. Don't try to claim any moral high-ground, or I'll bust you down to cpl. Nobody here claims the other side is evil more than you do.
You are right. I remember the riots we conservatives had under Obama. How we would go out and loot. And... wait, that wasn't us. It was the left.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_unrest

It must have been in 1992 that we rioted. Right? Oh yeah, not us.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

Or was it my birth year. 1968?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_De ... Convention

Here you go. A whole list. Maybe you'll find one here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ted_States

Maybe I should go out and boost some merch. I'm pissed off. That gives me the right, correct?
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23439
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

Obama was only POTUS for one of those.

LA happened after 11 years of Republicans in the office.

DNC happened while a Democrat was in office. But, seriously, can you imagine things getting out of control when people are fighting for things like their right to vote, and to sit in the front of a bus, and to NOT have dogs sicced on them, then their leader is assassinated??? Honestly, the nerve! :lol:

Maybe a pattern will emerge one day, and we'll be able to predict what leads up to riots.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

Looks like we have a pattern.
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
Gaius Octavius
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 3331
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:32 pm

Post by Gaius Octavius »

You mentioned the Civil Rights Era riots. Wow. Just...wow.
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

ur-Nanothnir wrote:You mentioned the Civil Rights Era riots. Wow. Just...wow.
So which riots aren't over "civil rights"
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
Zarathustra
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19621
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am

Post by Zarathustra »

Fist and Faith wrote:
sgt.null wrote:Democrats decided that they could not win on substance. So they decided that claiming Republicans were evil would work. And racism is evil, so boom goes the dynamite.
You are all as bad as each other. I heard the hate toward Obama for eight years. I heard shouts of "Liar!" at the SotUA. Don't try to claim any moral high-ground, or I'll bust you down to cpl. Nobody here claims the other side is evil more than you do.
Not liking a particular President isn't the same as calling the opposing political party evil. We've made this distinction before: the Right tends to think the Left is incorrect, but the Left tends to think the Right is evil. You can have a debate with someone you think is incorrect, but you can't have a debate with someone who thinks you're evil. And that's why the Left simply shuts down speech they don't like. That's why they think riots are an appropriate response. When you are fighting "Evil," the ends justify the means. Even people who read Donaldson and pretend to think otherwise when discussing his works, tend to justify the means when coming back to the real world. Though Donaldson explicitly made the point that the ends don't justify the means, some of his fans can still be found excusing black people for rioting. I think there's a lot of cognitive dissonance on the Left . . . when there is cognition at all, and not mere feels.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23439
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

I was talking to sgt, and that's what I read in a good number of his posts. But even others here say the Democrats are intentionally causing the riots for their own gain. How should one characterize people who cause riots for their own gain? Sounds like evil people to me. A shame such instigators can't be tried in court. Good luck with that.

Lack of cognition is in the eye of the beholder. I say it's the other way around. I don't excuse anybody for rioting. Everybody doing so should be locked up. But I say, over and over and over, that it will happen again, and I explain the emotions that make it happen, and the causes of those emotions. But I'm met with those who couldn't care less about that. People who will not acknowledge the pain of others. I'm not a student of psychology, but I've often heard that, in many situations, and I believe this is one of them, the first thing you do is acknowledge someone's feelings. "Yeah, I'd be pissed, too." I've heard such things are important.

Instead, they say things like, "They're all killing each other, anyway."

Tell me which way has a better chance of defusing a situation.

None of this is complicated, intellectually. But it will absolutely not be contemplated by some. That is a lack of cognition.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
Zarathustra
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19621
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am

Post by Zarathustra »

Fist and Faith wrote:I was talking to sgt, and that's what I read in a good number of his posts. But even others here say the Democrats are intentionally causing the riots for their own gain. How should one characterize people who cause riots for their own gain? Sounds like evil people to me. A shame such instigators can't be tried in court. Good luck with that.
I don't believe anyone has said that looting Footlocker is evil. Not like racism or other "-isms." There is no "looter-ism." Looting is an activity. A destructive, stupid, counter-productive, lawless activity. It's not evil.

I don't think that Dems are causing riots, but they are certainly condoning or at least excusing them. Again, this isn't evil, either. It's mistaken. It's stupid. It's hypocritical. It's lawless. But it's not a "crime against humanity," like racism.

There is condemning behavior, and then there is condemning people for their motivations, which manifest in behavior. Calling someone a racist isn't calling out their behavior, it's calling out their motivations, their very soul. No one is making a judgment on one's soul by saying stop fucking looting, idiots.
Fist and Faith wrote:I don't excuse anybody for rioting. Everybody doing so should be locked up. But I say, over and over and over, that it will happen again, and I explain the emotions that make it happen, and the causes of those emotions. But I'm met with those who couldn't care less about that. People who will not acknowledge the pain of others.
If you agree that they should be locked up, then why are you worrying about their feelings? Sure, you want to stop the rioting. But is worrying about their feelings the right way to do it? What if I *feel* I deserve your car? Is worrying about my feelings the best way to stop me from taking it? What if my feelings are "justified?" What if I feel like society owes me? What if I see a video of someone else who looks like me getting killed and and that makes me really really mad and so I think that because I have something in common with the person in the video--like we're both bald--that I *feel* like I deserve to take your car? Should you worry about my pain?

This is madness, FF. We don't worrying about the feelings of rioters or car theives.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
User avatar
sgt.null
Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
Posts: 47250
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by sgt.null »

I don't believe the dnc is causing the riots or even asking for them. They are not speaking out against them because they benefit from them. And the little bit that Biden says against them is because Don Lemon got on tv and said it was hurting democrats in the polls. If Fox told Trummp something similar and he acted on it the press would rightly go ballistic.

https://youtu.be/kp7oPgIwpZ8

How effing cynical is it to want rioting to end because of polling? People have been killed. Businesses have been destroyed. And those two putzes only care because its hurting Biden in polling.

So Biden finally speaks out sgainst rioting but fails to mention BLM or antifa. And he blames Trump even though Democrats in position of power refused federal aid. And he says Trump needs to tell his followers to stop the violence? It's leftists who are rioting!
https://youtu.be/fzVc-f5g6EY

Here is Trump specifically condemning racists. This is how a true leader acts. Biden should take note. Hell Ur and WF should watch...
https://youtu.be/9JmOSsv-KSg

And more...
https://youtu.be/4txFXtgqK18
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
User avatar
Gaius Octavius
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 3331
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:32 pm

Post by Gaius Octavius »

Zarathustra wrote:
Fist and Faith wrote:
sgt.null wrote:Democrats decided that they could not win on substance. So they decided that claiming Republicans were evil would work. And racism is evil, so boom goes the dynamite.
You are all as bad as each other. I heard the hate toward Obama for eight years. I heard shouts of "Liar!" at the SotUA. Don't try to claim any moral high-ground, or I'll bust you down to cpl. Nobody here claims the other side is evil more than you do.
Not liking a particular President isn't the same as calling the opposing political party evil. We've made this distinction before: the Right tends to think the Left is incorrect, but the Left tends to think the Right is evil. You can have a debate with someone you think is incorrect, but you can't have a debate with someone who thinks you're evil. And that's why the Left simply shuts down speech they don't like. That's why they think riots are an appropriate response. When you are fighting "Evil," the ends justify the means. Even people who read Donaldson and pretend to think otherwise when discussing his works, tend to justify the means when coming back to the real world. Though Donaldson explicitly made the point that the ends don't justify the means, some of his fans can still be found excusing black people for rioting. I think there's a lot of cognitive dissonance on the Left . . . when there is cognition at all, and not mere feels.
Completely false. I frequently see GOP voters call Democrats evil, both on these forums and outside of it. "Demoncrats" is a popular slur used by Republicans. Someone put up a sign near my neighborhood that says "Silly Demoncrats!" I see it all the time on social media. I hear it uttered in real life. Yes, Republicans believe that Democrats are evil incarnate.
User avatar
Gaius Octavius
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 3331
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:32 pm

Post by Gaius Octavius »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 26977.html

Donald Trump's racist comments over 30 year period.
User avatar
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:16 pm
Location: Guildford, UK
Has thanked: 1 time

Post by TheFallen »

ur-Nanothnir wrote:
Zarathustra wrote: Not liking a particular President isn't the same as calling the opposing political party evil. We've made this distinction before: the Right tends to think the Left is incorrect, but the Left tends to think the Right is evil. You can have a debate with someone you think is incorrect, but you can't have a debate with someone who thinks you're evil. And that's why the Left simply shuts down speech they don't like. That's why they think riots are an appropriate response. When you are fighting "Evil," the ends justify the means. Even people who read Donaldson and pretend to think otherwise when discussing his works, tend to justify the means when coming back to the real world. Though Donaldson explicitly made the point that the ends don't justify the means, some of his fans can still be found excusing black people for rioting. I think there's a lot of cognitive dissonance on the Left . . . when there is cognition at all, and not mere feels.
Completely false. I frequently see GOP voters call Democrats evil, both on these forums and outside of it. "Demoncrats" is a popular slur used by Republicans. Someone put up a sign near my neighborhood that says "Silly Demoncrats!" I see it all the time on social media. I hear it uttered in real life. Yes, Republicans believe that Democrats are evil incarnate.
Not this again? :roll:

Nano, you have recently accused me of being a "bad faith actor" - apparently solely on the grounds that I just don't buy into the hyperpolarised, childishly simplistic and purely binary paradigm that you so fervently have. By refusing to pick a side, by taking a position that both sides are pretty crap, by attempting to look at the available evidence objectively rather than cherrypicking elements that are merely and obviously agenda-led, I am - according to you - being in some way duplicitous...

So let's look at your latest blinkered assertion... "Yes, Republicans believe that Democrats are evil incarnate."

Now, I am sure that there exist some extremist fringe Pub voters who do believe such a ludicrously hyperpolarised thing - like the guys displaying those "Demoncrat" posters you mention. But that's hardly mainstream messaging from Republican High Command, is it? It's obviously as facile as it is fallacious to base such a sweeping generalisation upon the existence of non-representative outliers. As I said, claiming the existence of such idiotic moral polarisation is not the message being put out by mainstream Pubs.

Now let me do something that'll send you into a mouth-foaming rage - namely look at some available evidence. I've done this before, but you've clearly chosen to screw your eyes tight shut, jam your fingers in your ears and sing loudly at the top of your voice, rather than having to confront an inconvenient truth. How loyally zealous of you...
Joe Biden in his nomination acceptance speech wrote: I will be an ally of the light, not the darkness...

This campaign isn't just about winning votes. It's about winning the heart and, yes, the soul of America...

And light is more powerful than dark. This is our moment. This is our mission. May history be able to say that the end of this chapter of American darkness began here, tonight, as love and hope and light join in the battle for the soul of the nation.
I'd say that particular piece of mainstream messaging emanating from your worshipped figurehead is pretty unequivocal - Joe's very clearly framing the issue as an absolutist moral, nay quasi-religious one, where effectively he's claiming - and quite deliberately - on the one hand to be Gandalf and anyone supporting the Dems are the elves, whilst simultaneously portraying Trump on the other as Sauron and anyone supporting the Pubs as the orcs. How "end of times"... how puerile... how utterly fucking ludicrous.

Could the imminent election be framed in any more morally polarised a way than that? Could this facile piece of messaging come from a more mainstream Dem source than that? I think not. As I said at the time, Biden picked up Hillary's election-losing and massively divisive "deplorables" schtick, ran with it and then quite deliberately trebled down on it, by categorically defining anyone supporting his opposition as "the forces of Darkness"... you don't get much more "Evil Incarnate" than that.

And yet you make the utterly sweeping and utterly one-sided claim that yes, it's just the Republicans who believe that the other side is evil incarnate... :roll:

I seriously don't know whether you wear those blinkers which you insist on sporting voluntarily or inadvertently?

But I do know in advance that there is zero chance of your being able to accept there being any justification for my own position that in many ways, each side is is every bit as bad as the other, no matter what crystal-clear evidence may be laid out to support such a position. That simply won't fit into your childishly simplistic and utterly polarised view, so you'll reject it and will again have no choice but to label me as a "bad faith actor".

You know what you - and anyone on either side so wholeheartedly buying in to such a fatuously polarised and extremist piece of issue-framing - remind me of? The sheep in Orwell's Animal Farm, mindlessly and endlessly bleating "Four legs good! Two legs bad!"... and I find that both a little sad and more than a little concerning.

"Dems/Pubs are Goo-oo-oo-ood! Dems/Pubs are Baa-aa-aa-aad!" (Delete as appropriate)

Or hey, how about trying your best to take an objective look at both sides? You might end up with a view that more closely approximates the actual reality of things.

No? Didn't think so...
Newsflash: the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron" :roll:

Shockingly, some people have claimed that I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them

"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
_______________________________________________
I occasionally post things here because I am invariably correct on all matters, a thing which is educational for others less fortunate.
User avatar
Gaius Octavius
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 3331
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:32 pm

Post by Gaius Octavius »

And you would be completely wrong about "some" and "fringe" Republicans.
User avatar
TheFallen
Master of Innominate Surquedry
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:16 pm
Location: Guildford, UK
Has thanked: 1 time

Post by TheFallen »

ur-Nanothnir wrote:And you would be completely wrong about "some" and "fringe" Republicans.
Well, you make my point for me. That is EXACTLY what any radicalised absolutist would state.

You REALLY think that all Republicans consider Democrats to be "Evil Incarnate"? You REALLY think there are no shades of grey? You REALLY think reality's that simplistically divisible and definable? Boy, have you been duped into buying your side's pre-meditated propaganda.

Speaking of which, I note with no surprise that you completely avoid the evidenced point that it was your beloved Biden pushing this childishly simplistic binary "Evil Incarnate" schtick in his nomination acceptance speech. Sure looks like that he and Dem High Command are especially keen to get democrat supporters to see anyone not backing them as "agents of Darkness"...

So at the very least it is also clearly demonstrated that the mainstream Dem leadership itself is pushing this notion that anyone who does not vote Dem is morally evil. Irrelevant of whether the mainstream Pub leadership is also doing that or not... the mainstream Dem leadership most certainly is.

But of course you'll ignore this, because your side is All That Is Morally Good and as such can do no wrong. Yep, with your hyperpolarised world view, it's pretty much your only option to shut your eyes tight when confronted with auditable facts that cut the legs from under the position you've adopted...

I won't call you a "bad faith actor"... but you're sure as Hell a "blind faith" one.

:roll:
Last edited by TheFallen on Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:54 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Newsflash: the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron" :roll:

Shockingly, some people have claimed that I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them

"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
_______________________________________________
I occasionally post things here because I am invariably correct on all matters, a thing which is educational for others less fortunate.
Locked

Return to “Coercri”