The Riddle

[lurch]

Right off the top of my head I would think in terms of architecture being an Art. So,,,Jerry's talent at structure building ,,is his Art.,,his expression,,his talent..who or What he is. With that perspective I can see how Bones refer to the Graveyard he buried himself in. I can see how the race car from the race track he built, was the key that unlocked him from the captivity of the graveyard. I can see how the,,absence of Time, allows Jerry to make huge strides in maturing his character. But we also see the cool logical one, Stave, kinda lose it and do something that almost got him killed.

The connectivity of it all,,imho..is how Time is subjective,,Its a good exercise to teach one self how to be Free of the strictures imposed by Time..Seems to me that the Elohim , are grateful for the experience by end of story. Infelice infers an acknowledgement of not knowing everything after all.

There are continuing examples further along in the book, of Jerry's perceiving structure,,in a way others do not. So, its his individual talent, his Art, alone. The thing is tho..nobody sees the Time Play of the malachite..
Maybe, except, probably the Ranyhyn. They get out of there right away and don't come back until its Time to get the heck out of there. So..maybe the Great Horses,,upon filling themselves with water and grass..took a peak over the ridge, at the ensemble and had a snicker or two ..Kinda like watching the old folks at a family reunion , when without them knowing it, they were getting high for the first time from eating the pot laced brownies cousin Sally brought. Time is all distorted and no one seems to know it.

[peter]

Right off the top of my head I would think in terms of architecture being an Art. So,,,Jerry's talent at structure building ,,is his Art.,,his expression,,his talent..who or What he is. With that perspective I can see how Bones refer to the Graveyard he buried himself in. I can see how the race car from the race track he built, was the key that unlocked him from the captivity of the graveyard. I can see how the,,absence of Time, allows Jerry to make huge strides in maturing his character. But we also see the cool logical one, Stave, kinda lose it and do something that almost got him killed.

The connectivity of it all,,imho..is how Time is subjective,,Its a good exercise to teach one self how to be Free of the strictures imposed by Time..Seems to me that the Elohim , are grateful for the experience by end of story. Infelice infers an acknowledgement of not knowing everything after all.

There are continuing examples further along in the book, of Jerry's perceiving structure,,in a way others do not. So, its his individual talent, his Art, alone. The thing is tho..nobody sees the Time Play of the malachite..
Maybe, except, probably the Ranyhyn. They get out of there right away and don't come back until its Time to get the heck out of there. So..maybe the Great Horses,,upon filling themselves with water and grass..took a peak over the ridge, at the ensemble and had a snicker or two ..Kinda like watching the old folks at a family reunion , when without them knowing it, they were getting high for the first time from eating the pot laced brownies cousin Sally brought. Time is all distorted and no one seems to know it.

Interesting points L. The Elohim actually learning - adding to their [what was the dance of color they did called?] Jerry's deep perception of structure; shades of autistic spectrum disorder there perhaps. And learning to live free of the spectre of Time - valuable lesson in the extreme!

[lurch]

well yeaaaa,,,but to put it another way...freeing ones mind of encumbrances, spectres, sets the mind free to explore the imagination and infinite possibilities there of..Infinite possibilities only exist when you free your mind from all that says ..it must be this way or it must be that way ...As long as you are held by the dogma of the mundane,,you are not free to see all the other possibilities.

Linden breaks the Law of Time,,and saves herself by doing so..She frees herself from the cast she was formed by, by her parents. Infinite possibilities awaits her at end of book.

[peter]

I have seen a goodish portion of the world, but learned very early on that [for me] the major journeys of my life would be those that occured in my mind's development. Encumberances; I try to live outside of prejudice and pre-judgement. I accept the 'encumberances' of love and faithfullness [because behaviour and thought must be 'tailored' in respect of those whose lives are affected by ones actions. Beyond this I roam pretty freely I think. It is true that normality lies in mediocrity and we all must 'march to our own drum, no matter how paced or far away', but we must also spare a thought for 'those who have chosen to stay' [ie those who, by choice, remain rooted in the 'dogma of the mundane' - their sacrifice is what keeps the world turning [even if, while their nights are not so dark, neither are their dawns so bright.]

[lurch]

..again, to rise above, one must have something below. You have to have black and white to make grey..you have to use the mundane to go beyond it. So the idea is ..to have more than one or two choices,,to see More than one or two possibilities..

One of the more serious complaints against the Surreal point of view,,is that it is bourgeoisie; a perspective afforded to those well off enough. If one is constantly worried about putting food on the plate or keeping a roof over ones head..choices and possibilities are nothing more than distracting luxuries. Yet, the homeless are very creative in finding ways to keep alive, so, I have trouble with that criticism as well.

What I am saying is...its not so much the mundane that reduces our humanity...but our habitual stopping at the mundane level and Not progressing further in our daily digestion of the world around us.

[peter]

I sat under the most amazing of night sky's in Mazouga -aka 'The Erg Chebi' - in Morroco. Under ten's of thousands of the brightest stars I have ever seen, one of our travelling companions [a sucessfull photographer with Time-Life and National Geographic submissions on his cv] said he would never understand how it was that people could spend a life sitting at home when stuff like this was 'out there to see'. My wife observed that travell of the nature we were experiencing was a luxury well beyond the means of many people whose work brought them little more than enough to meet their daily costs. The man's reply spoke volumes. "Oh well, I'm not talking about them." Yes - I fully get the 'bourgeois' criticism.

I once dreamed that I would be a 'mover and shaker' [do not we all?] but alas have had to find such contentment as can be gleaned from being just 'another brick in the wall'. And really - it's not so bad; there also is honour in service [ask the haruchai ]

[paula1326]

Thank you Lurch for the insight. Malachite is known as the "travelers stone", it protects one from harm while away from home.

[lurch]

Thank you Paula.Welcome! Travelers stone,,pretty neat!

The author plays with time and space right from the first page of chapter 1 of TLD. So, I was sensitive to what he does with them from the beginning.

[lurch]

Another side of this is,,in a chapter down the line..there are paragraphs with heavy Time references in all of their sentences and eventually Space gets compressed into a 2 dimensional hoop that the group jumps thru. This book is like if Jimi Hendrix ever did Strauss's Blue Danube.

[peter]

Lurch, I love you Man! You're 'bending spoons and keeping flowers in full bloom'. More power to your elbow. I'm just embarking on my final and total re-read of the ntire TC cannon [for reasons given elsewhere], but due to you will see yet another dimension to the tale when I reach this part again.

[lurch]

Well thanks Nice Guy..and it continues..as the entourage' runs away from the Worm..Linden starts running out of Space to hide from what she is realizing what she must do.. With TC very clear on his need to confront Foul..Linden knows what that means for her and her biggest fear is she won't be able to do what she has to do...

i like the squeeze, the compression of Time and Space Linden experiences as its made clear Mount Thunder is their destination...and of course,,,the end of the Book is getting closer with each word, each sentence read, by the reader. Book Worms Indeed..

Again, these " slow" spots in the book are beguiling. They are loaded with " tactile" experiences; its just the reader has to be open to the " feel" , the touch, of what is going on. There is an interactive intimacy here. The reader has to become part of the book..has to see things thru the eyes and mind of Linden,,of Thomas, of Jerry...of the Narrator even..etc etc..You can't sit back and Demand the author do all the work for you. Its just the opposite..Its Your Humanity he is writing for, so you ,the reader, have to do the lifting, have to enter into the characters minds.

Its not the author meeting Our Expectations,,as lofty as some seem to think they be..its the Reader rising to the challenge set by the author...and Yes,,they are two separate things..thank goodness.

[peter]

I for one will be the first to admit to the charge of 'not [always] rising to the expectations that the author has placed on us' and sitting back expecting just to enjoy the ride. Maybe in a complete read [ie all ten books plus 'Gilden Fire' back to back] the intent of 3C. will be easier to see [or perhaps like the riddle you will see it or not as the case may be].

By what Linden was being 'forced to do' you were meaning

Spoiler

her inevitable confrontation with SWMNBN

were you Lurch?

I like the idea of giving more attention to 'time' [it's expanding and contracting] and 'pacing' [what the author is doing to you the reader; effectively engaging you in a 'waltz' [both of emotion and movement] in which he is the leader and in which the reader is willingly or indeed inwillingly led].

[lurch]

yes ..her appointment with She starts crowding in on her.

I've always been struck by Donalson's cadence , especially in the Chronicles. He always remarks that Erickson is his favorite for being lyrical. I think Donaldson is the better because his writing is so close to musical expression; the alliterative flow is sometimes as beautiful as a stream passing over rocks and shallows. And yea,,somewhere along the way..i imagined The Blue Danube in the background as I read the Chrons...Heck, it even works with Linden's fate being writ in water......wow..another dimension to the metaphor.

[peter]

My re-read will be beginning very shortly and I will be the more attentive to Donaldson's 'craft' as a writter on this occasion [both because I know more of this, and because you and others have drawn my attention to it.] As an aside, Dickens was said to be a master of using the tecniques of poetry to great effect in prose settings; the reason why he survives and is considered so great a writter [alongside his truly staggering power of invention] due in no small measure to the precision with which every word is placed within the text.

[lurch]

..and Shakespeare's metaphors are still considered bench marks on how its done, to this very day. Donaldson proves the " art" and " craft" of metaphors, simile, parables, alliteration, etc etc are far from dead.