The Riddle

[lurch]

Chapter 7 has a Riddle in it. When the group comes up on the correct cliff, Jerry says, " This is it! Malachite! That cliff is riddled with it!" The word " riddle" is italicized. The author had it italicized. The purpose of italicizing a word is to make it stand out, show that it is special, it is separate from the other words. The author announces a riddle. Game on.

So, what is the nature of this riddle, this puzzle, this mystery?. I believe I have figured it out. Obviously, its tied to the malachite. If its connected to the malachite then it is about Jerry's fane and relates to the Elohim and their hiding place from the Worm..A clue, the author only mentions the subject of the mystery a couple of times and in every case, its in the negative. If one is into the " cadence" of the writer, you may notice a shift in the " cadence" of chapter 7 upon the proximity of the malachite. Its like going from a 4/4 March step to a 3/4 waltz. A step or beat disappears.You may know it by its absence. When you realize what the " step' is, the connectivity falls in place and the riddle is yours.

Solve the Riddle first and I'll give you all of my paltry White Gold Dollars. If I make it to the ElohimFest in June, I'll buy the winner a drink. If the winner is there , the winner drinks it. If the winner is not there, we'll drink it.

To give every one a fair chance, after all Today could be a huge distraction for even the most loyal of Donaldson's fans, I impose a 24 hour buffer before accepting answers to the mystery of Chapter 7. One full day cycle before accepting answers means any correct answer posted before tomorrow 8:30 am ,,My Time, will not count....thats like 3:30pm GMT or something like that..

So, if not for anything more than bragging rights, give it a consideration. What is the answer to the " below the surface" riddle of Chapter 7?[/i]

[peter]

Lurch - is the *riddle* and all the clues pertaining to it's solution self-contained in Chapter 7 or will I need to go [or at least remember] beyond Chapter 7 in order to untangle it. [Am coming close to chapter 7 in my current re-read so it shouldn't matter much but it would be helpfull to know at least this much before I bend my awsome powers of deduction [hem hem] in this direction.

[Only those who know me well wil understand the length's I will go to in order to secure a free drink.]

[lurch]

Haa..no, you have, or do not have, everything you need in chapter 7..

[peter]

Haa..no, you have, or do not have, everything you need in chapter 7..

Then prepare, my friend, to spring for said drink!

[peter]

[Progress report; Have nailed down the 'cadence shift' and have a couple of ideas regarding the step that may be 'known by it's absence'. (Have just realised that 'absence' and 'dissapears' are not necessarily the same thing and have not considered the 'dissapear's' aspect; thus my ideas may turn to ashes and be stillborn befor even realising utterence!) If {this problem accepted} my ideas have any substance then they would indeed pertain to the nature of the fane and would sit comfortably alongside what we know of the nature of another construct we see Jerry build in the Land. My problem to date [and the very keystones upon which my tremulous edifice of conjecture will stand or fall] is with a failure to identify the two negative refernces to 'the mystery' which the author makes. I have read the chapter twice with no inspiration or eureka moment as yet but refuse to throw in the towel just yet. Perchance I will have to discard my ideas re the absent step and concentrate on the 'dissapered' aspect. Or maybe even forget the step altogether and try to nail the negative mentions first. A case of 'watch this space'!]

[lurch]

Relax Pete, you're trying too hard. Its not that difficult. Its not even that subtle. There is no great theory or formula here. Its a perception thing. You either see it or you don't. And when you do see it in chapter 7, its in a negative sense..do not over think it.

[peter]

Relax Pete

Alas, I lost the capacity for that trick about 35 years ago Lurch!

Still - I'll let the answer flow into me in it's own time [and it will!].

[peter]

Ok - heres the pitch. The nature of the fane is that it corresponds to the bones [blood, nervous tissue?] of the World and relates to the Elohim in the same way that Jerry's earlier construction of bones relates to living entities in the Land. [There could even be a correspondence to a wood construction made in one of the previous books of the Last Chrons which alas I no longer have.] The cadence shift giving the clue to the riddle's solution occors in the below passage on page 143:-

After all it was only a cliff. It was not the cunning subterfuge and malice of the demondim, seething to mask the ceasure which gave them access to the Illearth Stone. Nor was it the recursive wards of the Viles, coiling themselves into a mad tangle to prevent intruders from entering the Lost Deep. It was only peices and shards and spills and plates and torsos and veins and thews [my italics] of the worlds rock compressed by their own weight untill they formed a front which had outlasted millenia. It had no defense against her health sense.

'Bones' is the missing step which would complete the paralell showing the Earth to be composed of elements that correspond in kind to the elements that make up 'living' organisms; as such the Earth and the fane along with it may be regarded as, in essence, alive.

The negative refernces alas still elude me.

[lurch]

Well Pete you sensed the special of this metaphoric passage. Yet, the author is cruel here in regards to the Riddle. You are there. You just don't realize you are standing on the bulls eye.

[Berenford]

Vertebrae

[lurch]

Vertebrae

I suppose that is as good a metaphor as any...

[Berenford]

Vertebrae

I suppose that is as good a metaphor as any...

But it also meets the condition of being present by its absence, in that it completes the palindromic alliteration TV:_T set up by PS:SP, while sticking to the bone/body part theme.

[peter]

Damn! I had the ps:sp part and forgot to mention it! Berk Peter will be my new name for a month.

And vertebrae - yes, yes, yes.......!

[That was fun Lurch ]

[peter]

Something else that had untill posting yesterday slipped my notice [and may have been refenced elsewhere in the Last Chrons but I can't remember if it is so] is that the demondim used a [hidden] *ceasura* to locate and retrieve the Illearth Stone. This seems worthy of further consideration re it's implications so I will initiate a thread to see what people think. How much else have I missed that is going on I wonder!

[Zarathustra]

You guys really think that Donaldson inserted a riddle into a book that hardly no one even realized was there, much less solved? The guy who "doesn't invent things he doesn't need?" There are a hell of a lot more body parts missing than "vertebrae" from that extremely short list (which included other things besides body parts).

I saw this movie once about The Shining [the title was the room number where the dead woman sits in the tub ... I forgot]. It had half a dozen different interpretations of "the meaning" of the The Shining, each interpretation for a different person who was obsessed with this cinematic "masterpiece." Each of them assumed the movie was so brilliant, that it MUST have deeper levels of meaning than what was on the surface. The problem was, each guy came up with a different meaning. One thought the subtext was the massacre of the Indians. Another thought the subtext was the Holocaust. Each one had very detailed explanations for why this was THE hidden meaning, based on examples from the film (most of them insignificant details, like the brand of a typewriter or a can in the pantry). But the funny thing about it was that each one picked a meaning that dealt with issues in which they were already deeply interested in their own lives.

Donaldson Italicizes words in dialog to give readers a sense of natural voice and rhythm. Not to send them on pointless wild goose chases that detract from the story itself. Really, ask yourselves, has Donaldson ever done anything like this in his entire writing career? Why would he start now? Isn't there already enough meaning in this book without inventing your own?

[lurch]

Sooo..Z ain't gettin it either I see...

Well..Lets see... There is the Man Who series of detective novels with a MYSTERY at the heart of each story. There was the Mystery of who was behind all the suicide bombings in The Gap...There was the mystery of who was killing off the Leaders in the Mirror books..There was the mystery of Daughters of Regals in short stories....and of course,, there was the whole mystery of the Tom and Jerry masquerade in FR...The Question IS..why Would I NOT Expect a Mystery In TLD????????????????????????????????????? Well, until some one else finds a different one.. I Think I Have Found One. Hey, theres an idea..maybe there are more. But.. in this case,, there is a verifiable Phenomena that originates in chapter 7 by the Author, and stays confined to chapter 7 since the Phenomena exists in no other chapter. What is it?..How does that Phenomena relate to the Fane and the Elohim?

[lurch]

Okay, the Riddle has stated to cause pain and what not ,leading to possible discomfort and what ever. I had not envisioned The idea of a Riddle to become a source for such. So rather than watch the concept spiral any further closer to that possibility,,I'm spilling the beans now,,,with the belief,,if you haven't got it by now, you probably will not figure it any time soon. Sorry Way,you had it, but you posted it in the wrong thread..I'll still buy you a drink if you show up at Efest tho..

And that my friends and foes is the Phenomena, the answer to the Riddle..What is it about the Malachite, what is the Malachite's special property and how does that relate to the Fane and the Elohim..?

Time...Malachite warps, distorts, masks, hides,, plays with, ,,Time.

In every chapter of TLD..Time and Space are like twins almost inseparable, referred to as when and where in the story telling...In chapter 7,,as the cliff is found..and onward,,Time is dropped from the vocabulary. Even where the author brings it back into the story , its referred to in the negative..Linda lost track of Time from sleep.. Yes, the demondin ,," seething to MASK the..caesure..The Malachite was the MASK..the distortion, the hide, the Demondin used.." For an instant, Jeremiah was stunned..etc etc etc..Malachite masks Time. The over abundance of Space references and descriptive, the strain of the author figuring how to communicate without using " when" in the story telling ,is a level of humor in its own right,,but a re-read of chapter 7 with an eye on what happens to Time around malachite,, gives ability to see the Riddle and its solution.

Malachite Distorts,Warps Masks Time. Jerry's fane of Malachite allows the Elohim to be hid in Time from the Worm,,,and,,,as Jerry told Infelice..the Elohim can leave the fane,,Any Time They Choose...Time is subjective...and it took Water..change...for Linden and Us..to perceive the bare malachite as that metaphor..And at end of chapter,,Linden makes her Own Caesure..and goes on her Forbid Adventure..Malachite seems to be of service again..Chapter 7 might more accurately be called..Parable of the Malachite..but the author calls it.." Taking the Risk".....He did, so ,close enough for me. A great risk and I thoroughly enjoy it.

[peter]

You guys really think that Donaldson inserted a riddle into a book that hardly no one even realized was there, much less solved? The guy who "doesn't invent things he doesn't need?" There are a hell of a lot more body parts missing than "vertebrae" from that extremely short list (which included other things besides body parts).

I saw this movie once about The Shining [the title was the room number where the dead woman sits in the tub ... I forgot]. It had half a dozen different interpretations of "the meaning" of the The Shining, each interpretation for a different person who was obsessed with this cinematic "masterpiece." Each of them assumed the movie was so brilliant, that it MUST have deeper levels of meaning than what was on the surface. The problem was, each guy came up with a different meaning. One thought the subtext was the massacre of the Indians. Another thought the subtext was the Holocaust. Each one had very detailed explanations for why this was THE hidden meaning, based on examples from the film (most of them insignificant details, like the brand of a typewriter or a can in the pantry). But the funny thing about it was that each one picked a meaning that dealt with issues in which they were already deeply interested in their own lives.

Donaldson Italicizes words in dialog to give readers a sense of natural voice and rhythm. Not to send them on pointless wild goose chases that detract from the story itself. Really, ask yourselves, has Donaldson ever done anything like this in his entire writing career? Why would he start now? Isn't there already enough meaning in this book without inventing your own?

Uncompromising reality check from Z there. Never mind; "Joy is in the ears that hear"

{Lurch - you have my word; the riddle [true or false] has given me only pleasure! [My name change thing is just what I occasionally do on impulse for fun - no self harm intended]}

More to the point - where the **** has 'The Watch' been for the last couple of days; this is the first time I've been able to raise the site since Wednesday. I was gettin' serious 'cold turkey' [Maybe I need to get out more ]

[lurch]

well BP, the author put the phenomena in chapter 7 . I did not. Alls I did was take notice of it. Its amazing all the connectivity there is when connecting to the many things going on around that fane build. Jerry actually takes big steps in growing up in a compressed time period and the Giants without time references seem to not know when to take a break . And Stave gets unhinged and almost gets himself killed. And of course, Linden and Mahrtiir go way back, make the necessary changes, and come back.. All Thank You Very Much Malachite...? It appears so...Time is reduced to the wizard of Oz, Illusion, that it is, by the Malachite.

[peter]

One question Lurch? I thought about this when considering The Riddle; How do you think the malachite fane for the Elohim relates to the bone structure that Jerry was able to use to free his mind. I mean, is there a connection between malachite and the essential nature of the Elohim, that is mirrored by the relationship betwen Jerry and a bone constructed structure [ie bones forming the 'core' of living beings etc]. Also you have the respective purpouses of the structures to consider. Jerrys was to do with allowing something out, while the Elohim's was to do with keeping something out [or was it hiding/masking in it's effect - I forget]. We also, if you remember have Jerry at an earlier point, creating a 'transporting door' from wood. Has SRD thought out a unifying or cohesive thesis [wrong word but I hope you undestand what I'm getting at] behind Jerry's talents and constructions - or is he just plucking 'such matereals as would be to hand' in order to build the narrative?