Assail

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Assail

Post by Onos T'oolan »

ICE's book came out. I read a post on the Malazan site that had some spoilers. Thought I'd see if anything interesting was mentioned. Don't worry, I'm not about to spoil anything for you. Heh. The first was interesting. The second was kinda mind-blowing, so I got the book to see how it plays out.
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Post by aliantha »

I think Orlion's reading it. I'm off of Esslemont 'til he learns to write a bit better. ;)
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Post by Onos T'oolan »

:lol: Good luck with that. Want me to text you the spoiler?
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Post by Orlion »

Oh, come on! The only thing Erikson's writing has that ICE doesn't is philosophical vomit drooling out of his characters mouth! 8)

mod edit: *characters' mouths :lol:
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Post by lucimay »

WooT!! it has arrived!
:banana:


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This followup to Ian C. Esslemont's Blood and Bone is sure to delight Malazan fans.

Tens of thousands of years of ice is melting, and the land of Assail, long a byword for menace and inaccessibility, is at last yielding its secrets. Tales of gold discovered in the region's north circulate in every waterfront dive and sailor's tavern, and now countless adventurers and fortune-seekers have set sail in search of riches. All these adventurers have to guide them are legends and garbled tales of the dangers that lie in wait -- hostile coasts, fields of ice, impassable barriers and strange, terrifying creatures. But all accounts concur that the people of the north meet all trespassers with the sword. And beyond are rumoured to lurk Elder monsters out of history's very beginnings.

Into this turmoil ventures the mercenary company, the Crimson Guard. Not drawn by contract, but by the promise of answers: answers to mysteries that Shimmer, second in command, wonders should even be sought. Arriving also, part of an uneasy alliance of Malazan fortune-hunters and Letherii soldiery, comes the bard Fisher kel Tath. And with him is a Tiste Andii who was found washed ashore and cannot remember his past life, yet who commands far more power than he really should. Also venturing north is said to be a mighty champion, a man who once fought for the Malazans, the bearer of a sword that slays gods: Whiteblade.


And lastly, far to the south, a woman guards the shore awaiting both her allies and her enemies. Silverfox, newly incarnated Summoner of the undying army of the T'lan Imass, will do anything to stop the renewal of an ages-old crusade that could lay waste to the entire continent and beyond.

Casting light on mysteries spanning the Malazan empire, and offering a glimpse of the storied and epic history that shaped it, "Assail" is the final chapter in the epic story of the Empire of Malaz.


I'm deciding if I wanna do a full reread before I read it. heh. :R :banana:
Last edited by lucimay on Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by lucimay »

Orlion wrote:Oh, come on! The only thing Erikson's writing has that ICE doesn't is philosophical vomit drooling out of his characters mouth! 8)

mod edit: *characters' mouths :lol:
just being pro-actively modly. :biggrin: (auto correct wants me to write moldy) :trout:
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
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~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies



i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio



a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
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Post by aliantha »

Onos T'oolan wrote::lol: Good luck with that. Want me to text you the spoiler?
Absolutely. Unless one of y'all tells me Esselmont's writing has improved by leaps and bounds, I'm unlikely to read it. :lol:
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Post by Avatar »

I didn't even know it was due out, and I was contemplating a full reread as well. :D Looks like a good time.

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Post by aliantha »

We'll see you in a day and a half, Av. ;) :lol:
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Post by lucimay »

aliantha wrote:
Onos T'oolan wrote::lol: Good luck with that. Want me to text you the spoiler?
Absolutely. Unless one of y'all tells me Esselmont's writing has improved by leaps and bounds, I'm unlikely to read it. :lol:
I'm still at a loss for why one would not care for esselmont's writing.
considering some of the fantasy drek out there that some (not naming names) have admitted to reading (not saying you ali, just being broadly general) I think esselmont's writing holds up just fine. he is NOT the same kind (or style) of writer that erikson is, I wouldn't expect him to be, but he does just fine if I'm any judge. and tho I liked blood and bone the least of his books, I really LOVED return of the crimson guard and have no expectations that i'll like assail any less than that considering it is the LAST book in the 15 book series. how could you read all 10 of erikson's books and leave out whole chapters of the saga by not reading esselmont's?
I don't get it.

course I don't get syl's ban on reading martin either but hey, to each his own I reckon. :D
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies



i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio



a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
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Post by aliantha »

I reckon, too. :D

I dunno, luci. I just don't think he's that good of a writer. (And to be perfectly honest, it pisses me off a little that he's got a contract and I don't. :lol: )
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Post by Onos T'oolan »

I also loved RotCG. I'm only 20% into this one, but I already know it's at least as good. VERY much enjoying it! It's great to see the characters we've known for a while again. Some new ones already seem very interesting. Truth is, it has the feel of MoI. Not the horrifying parts. (At least not yet.) But the fun, adventuring parts. Me, Envy, Toc, and the Seguleh. The Bridgeburners, Dujek, Brood, Rake. The travels and camaraderie. That kind of thing. We'll see how it goes.
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Post by Orlion »

Finally finished it. Sounds damning when I start out a post like that, and it kind of is meant to be. Overall it was good, and I have come to a realization: Esslemont is best read as a Malazan supplement, not as part of the "main" series. Because frankly, it isn't part of the main series. Like comic events, Esslemont's books would be considered "tie-ins", part of the continuity, fun for those who want them, but not terribly important for the understanding of the main story.

And that is the issue I guess with these books, it's hard to tell sometimes if the events they depict are important to the Malazan world at large.

So the Empress is dead, that's cool but it doesn't really affect the actions taking place in Erikson's series.

Same with the end of Stonewielder.

Or Orb, Sceptre, Throne,

or the entirety of Blood & Bone.

Erikson's Book of the Fallen can exist independently from Esslemont's books. However, Esslemont's books can't do the same, I think.

I still enjoy them, quite a bit, but I also think a lot of the fandom (I'm looking at you, Pat! You book reviewing bastard!) would enjoy these more as fun supplements and not chapters in a larger arch. With the later view, profound disappointment would be a very understandable response.
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Post by Avatar »

So, I actually totally forgot about this book until Orlion made the post above. :D Since I was planning on buying some books anyway, I added it to my order, and finally got it delivered near the end of last week.

I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. And for the most part, I found the ending apt.

The only thing I really have mixed feelings about is
Spoiler
the return of...Jethis...
Otherwise, a good ending to the series for the most part.

I think it really is time for a full re-read. (Contrary to Ali's flippant remark, that will probably take at least 3 months. :D )

Will have to time it, because I'm lending them to a guy in my office, and he's a bit slow. :D Will try time it so we hit RG at the same time, 'cause I can skip that one without too many qualms. :lol:

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Post by aliantha »

Flippant? Me? ;)
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Post by Avatar »

Yes you. ;)

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Post by Avatar »

Stupid errors.

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Post by Holsety »

I realize this thread was last posted in in feb 2015, but I just wanted to quickly give my opinion on esslemont thus far.

So far I've read up to orb scepter throne in the malazan novels, and the first of the dancer, kellanved and dassem trilogy.

I don't really care that the books don't have a strong impact on the malazan plot. Honestly I'm happy with that. I'm not that happy with esslemont as a writer, but even if I thought he was stupendous, I would want him to have to juggle with Erikson regarding plot stuff as little as possible. The importance of a world-spanning plot is not as important to me as just making sure I read a book that I think is good.

My real issue is that when I read an esslemont book, I feel like I am not really taking in much in the way of interesting thought. Sometimes Erikson can get a bit ponderous, but I still think he gets across amazing emotion and beauty pretty regularly, as well as some good humor and fun. I really think he reaches incredible heights.

I cannot think of an equivalent in esslemont's books. I remember reading the character list at the start of orb scepter throne and thinking, "shit, kiska and leoman are running into something called 'the maker?' holy fuck." It turns out I just get one or two scenes where they find out there's this entity that's resisting the vitr, which we get some more information on in the kharkhanas trilogy. Tayschrenn has a really boring, rote "I have to balance these two personas" scene. Leoman fucks off. And Yathnegar, a character who's basically backstory, plot device and shitty crazy mage personality, appears to have finally died. After possibly dying/being pulled into chaos in Return of the Crimson Guard and in Stonewielder - and, by the way, he was just as uninteresting a villain in those books as well. Hairlock would be a first book example of an Erikson written crazy chaos-influenced mage who's much better than Yathnegar.

I was also really underwhelmed by Kiska and Leoman's plot in Stonewielder. They kinda ran into the liosan, and I thought we'd learn something interesting, but all we really find out is that Jorrude is still a douche and Osserc has a daughter, too. L'oric was a pretty damned interesting character in house of chains, then a kind of arrogant douche in bonehunters who still had some interesting substance to him. In this he's just a douche. The liosan invading the shore in the crippled god - who were simply amazing - were several orders of magnitude more interesting in just about every single depiction they get (even nameless liosan dying on shake blades) than any depiction esslemont gives us in stonewielder.

Bauchelain and Korbal Broach show up and are supremely unentertaining. Bauchelain in particular was a delightful villain in memories of ice, despite being relatively unimportant to the overall plot. His interaction with quick ben was excellently done. His interest in moon's spawn and the bridgeburners is absolutely justifiable, but he isn't actually interesting or entertaining in this book.

Since Erikson and Esslemont usually feature armies in their books, they're almost always going to have a few rookie soldiers and young warriors. The thing is, Erikson will always change the formula on you as he moves from book to book - Paran's first experiences in soldiery are sharply different than those of the grey sword recruit in memories of ice, the bonehunters in house of chains forward, etc. Sure, they all face harsh experiences, but the overall environment shapes those experiences completely differently. Paran, experiencing a horrific massacre, sees veteran soldiers crumble, and rallies himself only enough to keep up appearances. The grey sword recruit ends up in a similar situation to start, but the rigorous discipline of the company paired with the luck of the draw with imass aid has her end up in a completely different situation. While many malazan societies are relatively egalitarian in terms of who can fight in an army, capustan is not - erikson uses this to very good effect with the recruit. She also hardens more solidly than paran, though she ultimately appears in the series far less, and her death around the time of reaper's gale never gets depicted. Even when he reuses the same basic backstory, Erikson works in a great deal of variation, even when working with a character like the grey swords recruit, who's relatively unimportant in the larger plot of the books.

I'm really not as happy with Esslemont, who seems to roughly rehash a sort of basic "young guy with combat experience but not military experience who doesn't really know what he's signing up for but is going to prove himself" formula with Kyle, Suth, and "the butcher" in OST (don't remember his name). I don't mind using this basic background, but it's the only one he seems to use for his perspective characters. Even though he varies their backstories a fair amount, they still seem to function in pretty much the same manor. It's worth saying that the scene where Suth's squad and a few other squads face off against blue moranth in "try-outs" is really an excellent scene that probably stands out to me as the best of combat writing in the malazan series (I don't have much real experience so I'm not much of a judge, but it was an excellent frame situation for showing the author's ideas of what works and what doesn't in squad combat).

I will say that sometimes, when reading esslemont, I detect quick winks and subtle character development which leave me happy. Erikson has subtlety too, but a lot of the time he's really hitting you over the head with his jokes, ideas, plot events and so forth. I think Esslemont is a bit more willing to just hint a bit at something and then move on. I do appreciate that. But while this is my first time reading OST, it's my second reading RotCG and Stonewielder, and I'm starting to realize that overall, Esslemont might not be worth the effort. I'll probably read all his books anyway.

I'll also say that I think some of Esslemont's descriptions of physical activity, etc can be a bit better than Erikson, but imagery, fight scenes, etc are not really what I'm reading for, so this isn't a big plus for me.
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Post by Avatar »

Good post. Certainly agree with some of your criticisms, but somehow, when I'm reading the books they don't tend to bother me much.

It's only when I read about them from somebody else's perspective that I go "hey, he's right about that." :D

Still have to get the Dancer et al book.

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Post by Holsety »

Avatar wrote:Good post. Certainly agree with some of your criticisms, but somehow, when I'm reading the books they don't tend to bother me much.

It's only when I read about them from somebody else's perspective that I go "hey, he's right about that." :D

Still have to get the Dancer et al book.

--A
The thing is, there are occasionally things I really like in the esslemont books, so eventually I probably will make it through all of them, even independent of the fact that they're in the malazan world.
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