American Horror Story

[Zarathustra]

We've been watching this on Netflix, and enjoying it quite a bit. It's a good October show to watch. I love how character-driven it is, rather than being merely creepy. And each season is a different story told with the same actors, so you can really see their range. Speaking of that ... Jessica Lange is amazing! The rest of the cast is pretty good, too.

[Cail]

The first season was really good. The second......OK. The third was terrible. Not in love with the current season at all.

[I'm Murrin]

I really liked the second season, although I think they shouldn't have bothered with the "current day" storyline and the couple of eps at the end where they fast-forwarded through several decades to catch up to it.

The third season's only just now come out on DVD, so I've not seen it yet.

[Cagliostro]

I'm only through Season Two as I am waiting for Netflix to bring out Season Three. I've enjoyed it so far. I enjoyed it in bits, but since it is the same guy who did Nip/Tuck and Glee, I find the writing a bit "let's throw this element in and see if we like it. If we don't, it was be ignored and it might just go away, but if we do like it, then we harp on this until the next sparkly new storyline idea comes along." Granted, AHS has been a lot better in having an idea where to go with things than the other series from this creator that I've seen. But they always seem a little random to me.
Season 3, according to Entertainment Weekly, is the best. So I figure we'll see who I agree with between Cail and EW. I felt season one was ok, and season two was more interesting, although more stupid. So we'll see.

[Cail]

Season 2 took a bunch of interesting plotlines, loaded them in a shotgun, and fired them against a wall to see what stuck. There was a lot to like about it, but at the end......Huh?

Season 3 had its moments, but overall it just faltered too much.

Season 4 hasn't quite reached "Under the Dome" levels of stupidity, but it's early yet.

[[Syl]]

Agreed. Season 1 was pretty good. There were a couple weak episodes, but mainly I wanted to keep coming back and finding out about these characters. And even though the dead people often came off more silly and human, I thought it was actually pretty scary for a TV show.

Season 2 had some good ideas, but after a while I just lost interest. I think it was the aliens outside of the asylum that sealed it for me. I liked the weirdness of Quinto's character, but like a lot of things on the show, the writers didn't know when to stop.

Season 3 had nothing in it I wanted to see. I watched a few episodes, but about the only thing I found interesting/challenging was the minotaur rape scene.

I haven't made my mind up about this season yet. Freak shows were real things, and I like seeing that explored and certain notions or sensibilities challenged. That last episode with Meep... it was weird feeling that kind of revulsion for the geek and then later feeling sad for what happened to him. But I just don't see women lining up for some "flipper action" (my new favorite saying around the house) in Suburban Betty's spare room. The clown is the most problematic thing for me because I don't know where he fits in the story. And yeah, the whole "I'm afraid of clowns" shtick people claim to have these days really annoys me, but I kind of like how it's ruffled the clown society's feathers (I don't like clowns; I just think it's really dumb to say they're scary).

[Cagliostro]

And yeah, the whole "I'm afraid of clowns" shtick people claim to have these days really annoys me, but I kind of like how it's ruffled the clown society's feathers (I don't like clowns; I just think it's really dumb to say they're scary).

I'm happy for you that you find it a shtick. I, however, really had a problem with clowns as a kid, as did my two sisters. There was an animatronic clown at an amusement park called Joyland while we were growing up that haunted our nightmares.



I know he frequently chased me around about every month. The nightmares were very vivid and I still remember a few. And I know my sisters had the same thing.
So I'm glad that you never had this fear, but for some of us, it is, or has been, a real fear. I'm not so much scared of them these days, but there are some I do feel are a bit creepy.

[[Syl]]

That's too bad, Cag. But I didn't say "all people." See, if I were you, I'd feel the same way about it as I do about people who complain about having a migraine. Sure, some of them might actually have one (about as likely as complaining of having a seizure, if you ask me), but mostly it's just people mistaking it for a fairly common—if for them unusually unpleasant—headache. Are you saying it's not trendy to claim to be afraid of clowns? Do you disagree that people often claim to have a phobia, an irrational fear, when in fact it's just a typical, rational aversion? And I am talking about grown adults. Sure, clowns can be scary to kids. So can the dark space underneath your bed. But 20- or 30-somethings that say they're scared of it...

When I was a kid, I had a fire ant on my eye. Not only did it hurt like hell, it scared the crap out of me. As a result, I have a rational aversion to ants. But I don't expect people to find it interesting or noteworthy to hear that 'ants creep me out, man.' Sure, it might be interesting to find out other people have the same aversion, but I think after I'd heard the 36th person say it...

[Cagliostro]

I can't really talk for other people. I'm sure some people make more of it than they really feel, but I think some of us just find them kinda creepy. I myself brought up my own vague phobia. These days I have no problem with clowns - I don't run in fear of them or are afraid to touch them (don't read too much into the last part of that sentence). But I still have a bit of that childlike dislike of things looking "different" than expected, like how kids react to people in masks. They are used to seeing someone as "this" and altering that disturbs them.
But these days, at least with clowns, it's pretty much like that thing they say when animation looks a little too close to real, but you can tell it is. There's a term these days, and I can't think what it is. (oh, found it....Uncanny Valley). It's not that I feel afraid, per se, but rather just a little disturbed. And this is probably why it is blown out to "scared of clowns."
You definitely have a point, and yes, I think more is made of it than the reality, but I guess I was reacting to your initial post that seemed dismissive.

[Zarathustra]

That's too bad, Cag. But I didn't say "all people." See, if I were you, I'd feel the same way about it as I do about people who complain about having a migraine. Sure, some of them might actually have one (about as likely as complaining of having a seizure, if you ask me), but mostly it's just people mistaking it for a fairly common—if for them unusually unpleasant—headache.

Whoa ... as someone who is close to a chronic migraine sufferer, I find this an incredibly uninformed, insensitive statement. When you repeatedly have headaches that lasts for two weeks, that come on like an ice pick attached to a sledge hammer, and limit your movements and activity, you'll understand how debilitating this chronic pain is. It's severe enough to spend $1000s on injections directly into the nerves surrounding the head. And sometimes that doesn't even fix it. Sure, this is an extreme case, but migraine sufferers aren't making it up. And they are a hell of a lot more common than seizures. I don't understand being annoyed when you hear someone complain of a migraine, nor immediately suspecting they're full of shit. If someone's hurting, I tend to trust that they know their own pain better than I do.

Are you saying it's not trendy to claim to be afraid of clowns? Do you disagree that people often claim to have a phobia, an irrational fear, when in fact it's just a typical, rational aversion? And I am talking about grown adults. Sure, clowns can be scary to kids. So can the dark space underneath your bed. But 20- or 30-somethings that say they're scared of it...

When I was a kid, I had a fire ant on my eye. Not only did it hurt like hell, it scared the crap out of me. As a result, I have a rational aversion to ants. But I don't expect people to find it interesting or noteworthy to hear that 'ants creep me out, man.' Sure, it might be interesting to find out other people have the same aversion, but I think after I'd heard the 36th person say it...

Is Stephen King's IT still trendy? I thought people have been afraid of clowns for a long time, which is why King capitalized on it. Unlike vampires or zombies (which are trendy), clowns are real, and some people find their exaggerate façade of amusement to be ironically dehumanized and thus creepy.

The 'Uncanny Valley' description is pretty good. There are some things, like spiders/snakes/etc. that people just natural find spooky. Maybe like a Jungian archetype. I don't share this phobia, but it doesn't annoy me that others do.

Maybe if the clown fearers and migraine suffers were committing crimes, they'd receive a little more compassion??

[[Syl]]

That's too bad, Cag. But I didn't say "all people." See, if I were you, I'd feel the same way about it as I do about people who complain about having a migraine. Sure, some of them might actually have one (about as likely as complaining of having a seizure, if you ask me), but mostly it's just people mistaking it for a fairly common—if for them unusually unpleasant—headache.

Whoa ... as someone who is close to a chronic migraine sufferer...

Jesus Christ! (might as well line somebody up for the blasphemy debate next) Does everything have to be an argument? That's what I was saying, man. I had migraines until my early 20s. I spent many a night/day, whimpering, curled around a large bowl or something to puke in in bed, literally hoping I would die rather than having to keep going through the pain. It bothers me to hear someone refer to a headache as a migraine (or Excedrin to try to market that weak shit as "migraine strength"). If you've never been diagnosed or seen a doctor about it, and you're just rubbing your temples in the (fully lit) breakroom, while typing on your computer, or whatever, then no, you don't have a damn migraine. Probably. I don't get to claim to have Parkinsons every time I get a twitch in my finger.

Sure, this is an extreme case, but migraine sufferers aren't making it up. And they are a hell of a lot more common than seizures.

Actually, they're related.

I don't understand being annoyed when you hear someone complain of a migraine, nor immediately suspecting they're full of shit. If someone's hurting, I tend to trust that they know their own pain better than I do.

You're right. I'm a completely atypical asshole who writes on the internet about mild annoyances with people they don't usually express in public. Maybe you could drop into the Writer's Circle next time and criticize me for the worldview expressed in my latest poem.

[[Syl]]

And if anybody cares, this is what I was initially referring to: American Horror Story’ Can’t Stop Making Real Clowns Mad.

"We do not support in any way, shape or form any medium that sensationalizes or adds to coulrophobia or 'clown fear,'" said club president Glenn Kohlberger, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

I was saying that even though I don't like the clown-phobia stuff either, I still think it's kind of funny seeing their foam noses tweaked at it (I know, I know. Not all clowns have red, foam noses.)

[[Syl]]

I can't really talk for other people. I'm sure some people make more of it than they really feel, but I think some of us just find them kinda creepy.

Also, this is what I'm getting at. I said myself that an aversion is fine in my book. Not liking clowns (or mimes, street theatre performers, etc.) is pretty normal. Clowns are kind of creepy, mostly for the reasons Z expressed (and also for being something like an emotional rapist). But calling it a phobia, for most people, is trite and ridiculous. If you won't go to the grocery store because you think you might run into a clown, that's a phobia. If seeing a clown on TV makes you uncomfortable, sorry, Charlie, that makes you pretty normal. And I think saying you're afraid of clowns isn't unlike saying you're afraid of ghosts. Understandable, maybe, but still pretty silly (and while more people may have actually been hurt by clowns than ghosts, I think the number is still statistically insignificant).

I myself brought up my own vague phobia. These days I have no problem with clowns - I don't run in fear of them or are afraid to touch them (don't read too much into the last part of that sentence).

Sorry, man, but that's not really a phobia. I'm not denigrating your dislike, though, rather the now ubiquitous misuse of the word. And if you feel compelled to tell people your feelings every time you see one, sorry, that probably is pretty close to what annoys me about the whole thing. But I'm sure I do things that annoy you for perfectly valid reasons as well. For instance, I'm triple-posting right now, and I'm annoyed with myself. *shrug*

... it's pretty much like that thing they say when animation looks a little too close to real, but you can tell it is. There's a term these days, and I can't think what it is. (oh, found it....Uncanny Valley).

Interesting. I actually experience physical revulsion on motion theatre rides because of the combination of the real and unreal.

You definitely have a point, and yes, I think more is made of it than the reality, but I guess I was reacting to your initial post that seemed dismissive.

Thanks. That element of my post was dismissive, but while expressing a genuine sentiment, it was meant to be an acerbic bit of flavoring, not the main course.

[Zarathustra]

That's too bad, Cag. But I didn't say "all people." See, if I were you, I'd feel the same way about it as I do about people who complain about having a migraine. Sure, some of them might actually have one (about as likely as complaining of having a seizure, if you ask me), but mostly it's just people mistaking it for a fairly common—if for them unusually unpleasant—headache.

Whoa ... as someone who is close to a chronic migraine sufferer...

Jesus Christ! (might as well line somebody up for the blasphemy debate next) Does everything have to be an argument? That's what I was saying, man. I had migraines until my early 20s. I spent many a night/day, whimpering, curled around a large bowl or something to puke in in bed, literally hoping I would die rather than having to keep going through the pain. It bothers me to hear someone refer to a headache as a migraine (or Excedrin to try to market that weak shit as "migraine strength"). If you've never been diagnosed or seen a doctor about it, and you're just rubbing your temples in the (fully lit) breakroom, while typing on your computer, or whatever, then no, you don't have a damn migraine. Probably. I don't get to claim to have Parkinsons every time I get a twitch in my finger.

Ok, ok, I get you now. I guess I misunderstood you. There are over 30 million people in the U.S. who suffer from migraines, and I thought you were trying to say there aren't really very many. I do think they can range from mild to severe, however, so that you can't really definitively judge another person's pain. But I see what you're saying.

Sure, this is an extreme case, but migraine sufferers aren't making it up. And they are a hell of a lot more common than seizures.

Actually, they're related.

Oh believe me, I know. Topamax is given to both migraine suffers and people who have seizures. Migraines are a neurological event, much like a seizure.

[I'm Murrin]

I've started Coven now, four episodes in. Seems to me the show has its weaknesses, but for the most part it's pretty consistent - you go into each season and you know pretty much what you're getting in terms of style and tone. I'm enjoying it.

[Zarathustra]

Season 2 was good until the last 5 or 6 episodes. It felt like the writers didn't realize it had already reached the end. After the Devil was driven out, Dr Arden committed suicide, and Bloody Face was shot, it was bizarre for the story to continue. Lana and Jude still had years worth of story left, going through several changes each, even in the absence of any antagonist whatsoever. It felt like a Stephen King epilogue that would never end.

[I'm Murrin]

I just finished Coven. It did have a much better ending than Asylum, not really dragging on like that did, but it also kind of resolved some of its plots too easily. I don't think the end of Delphine and Marie was given enough weight, nor did the witch hunters amount to much.

[Cagliostro]

I'm reviving this thread. I stopped watching this crap after Freak Show which I found especially unpleasant, and not in a fun way. Hotel I heard from friends was even more unpleasant, so I decided not to even take the chance on the show anymore.

Until this season. I saw ads that looked especially fun. AHS-1984. Yeah, the 80s had a touch to do with it, but it seemed more like Friday the 13th, the TV series than...well...Friday the 13th, the TV Series. As I have been a fan of Friday the 13th for a long time, I'm definitely digging this season. Huge body count, lots of gross outs, and all the fun of watching a slasher movie. But there is an added bonus of many twists and turns that, while often dumb, elevates it a bit beyond your standard F-13 flick. It's dumb and pretty and psycho like someone I dated in the 80s, and I am definitely enjoying it. This is exactly the fun kind of horror I didn't realize I was needing these days.
However, the episode before the one I just watched seemed like the end of the season, and it isn't. But I guess that fits too as they always bring Jason back. Even in the future. In space.

[Zarathustra]

I haven't watched this show past season 2 or 3, I forgot which. However, I have been enjoying this season. It is all over the place in terms of plot, going places I really did not expect, but that's not necessarily bad

[Cagliostro]

American Horror Story's plotting has always been all over the place, throwing elements in here and there just to see if it will stick or not, and Glee was the same by the same people. Results vary widely. But yeah, this season of the show is just good dumb fun, for the most part, and I can't wait for the bloodbath that is looming on the horizon.