Hue and Frosty collabing [Last Chronicles art]

[Frostheart Grueburn]

Yes it's going to get a granite/lamellar feel (says so above, we're trying to see how to achieve this with texturing or possibly overpainting, I don't think Hue owns a lamellar set). The render posted's an outline (as in shape) upon which to build.
I'll reply properly later, going to bed.

[Savor Dam]

Honninscrave wore a "sark" (shirt) of "interlocking granite discs", but also leather leggings. This is, I think, another clue about what might be possible. But I don't know how discs can interlock.

Interlocking Discs

The conceptual leap needed here is hollow disks that can lie at other angles than perpendicular.

What I had envisioned when reading of Honninscrave's shirt was very similar to what I think of as a chain mail tunic; a fabric of interlocking rings that are each too small to permit any blade (except perhaps an icepick dagger) to pass, but where the entire fabric has ample flex to allow the wearer freedom of motion.



Doing this with granite obviously presupposes some way to open the stone links and interlock them. Thus, pitchwiving must have both macro (fusing a mast) and micro (interlocking granite mail garments) applications.

[wayfriend]

You know, SD, I did think of ring-mail. But I cannot see anyone looking at ring-mail and calling it "interlocking discs". They would immediately think "interlocking rings", wouldn't they?

I like to look at things backwards, I know. Instead of thinking about what interlocking discs might possibly refer to, I think about what kind of armor would be best described as interlocking discs when someone first sees them.

Perhaps "overlapping discs" is closer to the meaning than interlocking rings.

That all said, THIS is what I think was meant, based on my criteria of working backwards and thinking, If I saw that, my first assessment would be "interlocking discs". (My sketch, using Paint.)

[aliantha]

So you'd need pins to hold the discs together? Looks to me like that would be a weak point. Too easy for a pin to work itself free.

I wonder whether the granite disks couldn't have been sculpted or bent to lie sort of flat -- like a tile roof.

[wayfriend]

So you'd need pins to hold the discs together? Looks to me like that would be a weak point. Too easy for a pin to work itself free.

I was imagining something more like leather thongs which secured the discs to each other as well as to the leather sark underneath.

The main point is, I imagine that "discs" would be more like dinner plates and less like rings, and that "interlocking" would indicate that they fit into each other somehow, rather than merely overlapping.

I cannot find any historical reference to any kind of armor ever having included interlocking discs.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

Hei guys thanks for the discussion. I have some ideas about this and will return to the matter when my head doesn't feel akin to a triple beehive after a stressful workweek.

Here's something else for you to mull over in the meanwhile: a draft skurj. Yes, it's different from mine, and WF likely has an opinion about it. The character size comparison pic below's apparently a bit of a joke based on a note of mine about Grueburn attempting to out-height various objects; she was notably reaching up in some of the preliminary anatomy renders utilized for redlines, etc. I love how Linden strides by in her own bubble of angsty seriousness, not observing the peculiar scene unfolding next to her.
Also I heard that the bodies Hue was using for the Giantesses pose certain adjustment restrictions, so unless he finds a route to circumvent the problem, you might get more narrow-hipped ladies this time.

[Sorus]

So you'd need pins to hold the discs together? Looks to me like that would be a weak point. Too easy for a pin to work itself free.

I wonder whether the granite disks couldn't have been sculpted or bent to lie sort of flat -- like a tile roof.

Something like this is what I was picturing, albeit on a larger scale.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

Indeed, a common consensus for clothing and armor ought to be found, now the heroines must resort to other tactics to distract and tackle the fiendish skurj. I doubt such diversions will enrapture every were-menhir with equal success...

[Cord Hurn]

The draft skurj seems somewhat like a lamprey with regard to mouth placement and overall looks.

Also I heard that the bodies Hue was using for the Giantesses pose certain adjustment restrictions, so unless he finds a route to circumvent the problem, you might get more narrow-hipped ladies this time.

[aliantha]

So you'd need pins to hold the discs together? Looks to me like that would be a weak point. Too easy for a pin to work itself free.

I wonder whether the granite disks couldn't have been sculpted or bent to lie sort of flat -- like a tile roof.

Something like this is what I was picturing, albeit on a larger scale.

Yeah, like that. Like fish scales, kind of.

(scrolls rapidly past the nekkid Giantesses as she's at work )

[Frostheart Grueburn]

The draft skurj seems somewhat like a lamprey with regard to mouth placement and overall looks.

I'm...not ascertained as to how I managed to read that as "lampey". This mental image has haunted me ever since.




We're working on the cataphract, and hue's current suggestion for the slab pattern resembles fish scales. The armor will feature Finnish granite and rock textures, and I've gone to some lengths to photograph those.

FYI: Cataphracts are specifically scale armor. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataphract

[wayfriend]

This mental image has haunted me ever since.

(Well, then, I am very glad I never mentioned that the skurj seemed rather phallic.)

[Frostheart Grueburn]

This mental image has haunted me ever since.

(Well, then, I am very glad I never mentioned that the skurj seemed rather phallic.)

Well, that too, but I decided to sketch the G-rated version.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

I couldn't find a reference anywhere in the LC's that the cataphract slabs were interlocking. I've always imagined them as overlapping, as in actual scale armor. No depictions whatsoever of how they're clad below the hips either. For practical reasons we've omitted chain mail bikini bottoms. Furthermore, we exchanged a couple of mails about the "boob plate" issue (bucket scene or not...), and decided to scrap it as impractical.

Rough test renders of the official Valentines Day Breastplate Edition (available in Hot Topic) done with double texturing. I've suggested making the scale/slab shape more...cataphracty.
You might not guess that those rock patterns come from the wall stones of a medieval church.
Anyway this may be as close as Hue can get to the depiction without beginning from scratch. I'm guessing the material thickness proves harder to mimic, but it won't really show that much when she wears the entire gear.

[wayfriend]

I couldn't find a reference anywhere in the LC's that the cataphract slabs were interlocking.

No, the interlocking discs were Honninscrave's thing. I only mentioned it because it was tangentially informative - it may have shed light on what Giants can and cannot do with stone armor.

The cataphracts I always imagined as one solid piece of stone - a breastplate if you will, or a breastplate/backplate combination tied with leather. And I submit to you this: Not only did it serve "as a cradle for Anele" (he slept "cupped in Galesend's cataphract"), but the Swordmainnir carried water in them!

"Rest if you must," Coldspray replied, hoarse with thirst. "If you are able to do so, arise and aid me. We must make use of your cataphract as basins for water."

[...] The halves of the cataphracts were large enough to hold substantial quantities of water.

Personally, I am not sure if Donaldson properly understood what a cataphract was, or if he used some obscure version of a definition that I am unaware of. This is the definition I find [more or less] everywhere.

Cat´a`phract
1. (Mil. Antiq.) Defensive armor used for the whole body and often for the horse, also, esp. the linked mail or scale armor of some eastern nations.
2. A horseman covered with a cataphract.
3. (Zool.) The armor or plate covering some fishes.

Clearly, the Giantesses aren't wearing horsemen. Nor are they wearing whole body armor, the way Donaldson describes it, which is pretty much as a pair of stone plates, front and back.

There is certainly, though, an argument that the term cataphract implies scaled armor. And I don't think your depiction would be wrong. But I don't think Donaldson had that in mind.

(I suppose it's possible though. Perhaps the scales were attached to a piece of leather sufficient to carry water, and sturdy enough to retain a cradle shape when lying on the ground. But there's simply no indication that this is so! And would Anele be protected by stone if he was actually on leather?)

[Edit] Found these!

He wore a cataphract of granite slabs which had been fused together by some Giantish lore.

Anele stroked the smooth stone of Coldspray's armorand crooned as though he were being cradled.

Then they, too, unclasped their cataphracts. When they had shrugged the shaped stone off their shoulders, they slumped to the ground.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

My eyes are crossing from tiredness, but we're heading for a solid breastplate/backplate combo of fused slabs. There's some divide in the front of Hue's model as he crafted it from two separate armor sets, but essentially it's a stiff solid thingamajig.

So, uh, was there something essentially wrong about the Valentines Day Edition test renders in the light of this?

[wayfriend]

Yes. looking back over your post, I can see that perhaps these are all things that you have considered. You have my apologies, if so.

I found this passage rather remarkable.

"Ironhand," Clyme stated, "we require your armor to carry water."

Coldspray regarded him with an air of stupefaction. Briefly she struggled to understand him. Then she managed a nod. Fumbling, she undid the bindings of her cataphract. When that was done, she rolled across the sand until she left the breastplate and back of her armor behind.

Freed from the heavy stone, she labored unsteadily to her feet and watched as Clyme and Branl each stooped to lift half of her cataphract.

Yes, it describes a breastplate and a back[plate]. But I found Coldspray's method for taking this off a bit funny but also a bit illuminating. She literally rolled out of it. Rather than sit up and shrug it off.

And also this:

Bluntfist and then Stonemage unclosed their cataphracts, shrugged the stone from their shoulders. Using their armor like spades or bludgeons, they crushed skest; deflected the spatter of green corrosion.

Yes, it describes the armor as if it was inflexible. But it also provides some imagery that hints on the proportions. They would be better swinging weapons if they were longer than they were wide, especially when swinging at something you don't want your hands near.

I think it's significant that Donaldson doesn't call them "breastplates". He calls them "cataphracts". And, as we know, a cataphract is whole body armor.

Which leaves me wondering if perhaps these Giantish cataphracts aren't perhaps something that extends from the shoulders, down past the torso, past the beltline, and extends over the thighs to some degree.

P.S. "boob armor" would not be a death-trap if the "valley" was removed. Imagine one hill ranging from the left side to the right. You can have femininity without losing the fem inside. It would provide an ample repository for water transportation. And what man could resist curling up inside for a nap?

[Frostheart Grueburn]

Cataphracts still under progress. Stave here and some answers after the pics!

Concept #1:



Concept #2:



Render (we're working on this one atm) so do you guys have any thoughts? I've suggested making the mid-face flatter (sans such a prominent nose bridge).



This one's something of a by-creation based on the first Afro Stave sketch. It's not a canon depiction but something based on individual impressions.
Hue did a striking two-eyed non-Odin render. Due to some whim of the wyrds it looks precisely like a recurring dream character of mine, which I've pinned as a Jungian Animus.

Yes. looking back over your post, I can see that perhaps these are all things that you have considered. You have my apologies, if so.
But I found Coldspray's method for taking this off a bit funny but also a bit illuminating. She literally rolled out of it. Rather than sit up and shrug it off.

Yup, most technical details considered, such as how Grueburn was able to crawl on all fours in the Lost Deep clad in her armor. To be able to do that, the breastplate might have attachable faulds, but cannot be solid from shoulders to below hips if it allows such leg movement.

I always were under the impression that Rime suffered from exhaustion too severe to be able to sit up with the contraption encasing her. (Rolling is easier.)

Also Hue has some technical limitations in terms of armor shape, etc. So, adaptations, adaptations.

P.S. "boob armor" would not be a death-trap if the "valley" was removed. Imagine one hill ranging from the left side to the right. You can have femininity without losing the fem inside. It would provide an ample repository for water transportation. And what man could resist curling up inside for a nap?

Aah but consider falling down and the edge of the shelf hitting either your over- or underboob ribcage. The model should be very gently curving to prevent such hazards.
I know a few girls who would not be able to resist it either.

[wayfriend]

Ah, Stave.

There were lots of useful comments on how Haruchai appear in this thread: My attempt at a Bloodguard. This was in response to Hue's earlier attempts at a bloodguard.

The eye thing is gonna be tough. The third pic works for me best, in this regard.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

Yup, as it mentions above, the third one's the version under present development. Concepts etc. as a matter of curiosity.

As far as I understood, Hue based it on one of his older harumodels.