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)Let There Be Light!
Moderator: Vraith
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peter
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Silly question, but what would happen if you stepped into a 100 T magnetic field? Would it just cause all the iron atoms in your body to line up in the same orientation [but you wouldn't feel this] or would it like......rip you apart like Dr Manhatten in Watchmen?
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
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Hashi Lebwohl
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All the water molecules in your body would orient in the same way (which is how MRIs work) but it won't pull you apart...unless you have metal fillings in your teeth or pins in a bone somewhere--that would be bad. I don't know what it would do to your nervous system, though--a magnetic field that powerful is going to mess up any active neural circuits you have (or at least it should).
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
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Vraith
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Hmmm...you'd certainly think so, wouldn't you? I mean, the brain stimulators mentioned elsewhere---some use current, some use a field--- I think run on 9volt batteries. 100T is a bit bigger than that.Hashi Lebwohl wrote: I don't know what it would do to your nervous system, though--a magnetic field that powerful is going to mess up any active neural circuits you have (or at least it should).
And even the MRI can cause vertigo and such in some people...
So I went to see if anyone knew...
First thing I found is that the MRI symptoms usually happen if there is head movement---so whether the field is moving or not [or you are moving through it] can make a big difference.
I didn't find much that wasn't just speculation before I got bored looking/sorting.
Apparently in rats, starting around 10 T it alters physical behavior, and affects their sense of taste and conditioning related to that [I didn't read the thing...just a blurb from the abstract] but not physical damage/harm.
One thing I ran across once upon a time...might even have mentioned it somewhere...is that with a field in a particular brain region, they can suppress moral judgment---people will make more immoral decisions than they do when no field is applied.
But AFAICT, no one has tried [or at least not succeeded and published] to increase morality.
Which is odd...I have a few speculations on why, but I won't ramble on here/now.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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peter
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No future Marvel superheroes or villains waiting for that accident to happen then.The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
Hashi Lebwohl
- The Gap Into Spam
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- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm
Links, Vraith--inquiring minds want to know. According to NIMH, rTMS was approved for treatment of major depression in patients who have not responded well to one or more antidperessant medications.
There was one fringe science site I saw once that stated that some researchers had managed to induce readings in accelerometers by introducing them into powerful magnetic fields...but that was a fringe site so the results they claim are sketchy at best. Still...at one point that new microwave drive was considered fringe, as well, but now it has been independently tested and confirmed.
I wonder how intense a magnetic field Magento could create?
There was one fringe science site I saw once that stated that some researchers had managed to induce readings in accelerometers by introducing them into powerful magnetic fields...but that was a fringe site so the results they claim are sketchy at best. Still...at one point that new microwave drive was considered fringe, as well, but now it has been independently tested and confirmed.
I wonder how intense a magnetic field Magento could create?
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
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Vraith
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Not necessarily, peter, there may be---of a sort, anyway.peter wrote:
Not accidentally by wandering through a superfield...
But those stimulators...there are some pretty amazing hints of possibility in there.
I mean...flip a switch on your headband [actually, probably can voice activate it with a command through your apple/android device] and almost anyone/everyone?---lots of folk anyway---understands really advanced math/geometry/logic. And/or music. Those two already have some demonstrated basis. And it lasts for a period of time, you just need a reboot every month or two.
What if it's so for languages? And/or empathy?
What about ambition/discipline/determination?
What if, mixed appropriately, it works for all/general intelligences?
Or...down-side, in a way, but more super-hero-like...what if you hyper one thing, but that means you limit others?
You can be Einstein+ OR Mozart+ OR Serena Williams+, but not all of them?
Really, though [to kinda sorta make it match this thread topic] it isn't the specifics that MOST interest me [all though they do a lot], it is something else. The possibility for not just understanding lots of things...the possibility for understanding them in different ways, the potential to be different people, to literally/experientially and metaphorically walk in others shoes.
Because people like to say we're made up of our experiences...but it's also true that we're made from the particular state/mood/identity we happened to be in at the moment we have/had an experience.
Weirdness is out there...you can begin healing of trauma/ptsd by shifting your eyes from right to left [that's simplified...but not grossly simplified].
Magnetic fields might let there be EnLight.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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Hashi Lebwohl
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- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm
The most usual side-effects of various brain truama when people recover with something extra is artistic, mathematical, or musical ability. People born with some extra ability again usually express artistic, mathematical, or musical ability--there is one guy who can see an animal once and then render the animal in exact detail--down to the hairs in the coat--via sculpture, another guy who can replay newly-composed experimental jazz pieces on the piano with 98% note accuracy, and so on. I saw a show about another guy who "sees" numbers like walking through a landscape--he can recite pi to 20,000 places without error and he also managed to learn enough Icelandic in only one week to go onto a talk show and have the segment without a translator. Most of these people also suffer disadvantages significant enough that it can interfere with a "normal" life...but what if, as you note, you can turn on a device and activate something similar to this?Vraith wrote: Not necessarily, peter, there may be---of a sort, anyway.
Not accidentally by wandering through a superfield...
But those stimulators...there are some pretty amazing hints of possibility in there.
I mean...flip a switch on your headband [actually, probably can voice activate it with a command through your apple/android device] and almost anyone/everyone?---lots of folk anyway---understands really advanced math/geometry/logic. And/or music. Those two already have some demonstrated basis. And it lasts for a period of time, you just need a reboot every month or two.
What if it's so for languages? And/or empathy?
What about ambition/discipline/determination?
What if, mixed appropriately, it works for all/general intelligences?
Or...down-side, in a way, but more super-hero-like...what if you hyper one thing, but that means you limit others?
You can be Einstein+ OR Mozart+ OR Serena Williams+, but not all of them?
If the potential for advancement, both artistic and scientific, is there shouldn't we be doing this?
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
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peter
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We had a weird case in a local hospital where a british woman came out of a post traumatic coma with a Chinese accent. 
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
peter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11564
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
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Can I just put this into laymans terms and see if I have a handle on what or where we think we are at present;
If we shine light through a diffraction grating we get the characteristic pattern demonstrating interference and explainable by considering light to be wave-like in nature. If on the other hand we use apparatus to show the photoelectric effect [eg the way electrostatically repelling sheets of gold leaf can be stripped of their charge by shining blue/white light on to the charging plate - but not by red light], then we are forced to use the explanation of light being particulate in nature rather than wave like, in order to explain the effect.
So we are using our apparatus to drag light kicking and screaming into our world of 'reality' [where light is either a particle [or not] or a wave [or not]] from the 'other world - the quantum world' - where no such reality exists.
But then we need to explain quantum entanglement.
Nils Bhor put forward his 'Copenhagen Interpretation' where he said that by determining the spin of a particle at place A [where prior to the determination the particle had had no fixed spin direction] we instantaneously determined [and fixed] the spin of an entangled particle at place B, be it ever so far away across the universe. Crucially here we must understand that the 'fixing' of the spin direction is not occurring until the instant we make our measurement - but that the fixing is instant [ie faster than the speed of light in terms of information transfer between the two entangled particles].
This for Einstein was anathema; Does the moon cease to exist when I am not looking at it, he famously asked. After some thought he came up with an alternative idea - that the spin direction was fixed for both particles prior to the measurement being made [ie back in the quantum realm before it is pulled into the 'real' world of observable direction] and thus there was no need for any 'instantaneous transfer' of information between the two separated [but entangled] particles. This conundrum was thought to be irresolvable until the work of John Bell in the 1950's, who proposed a formula which would determine which of the two scenarios was the correct. Between the work of Einstein and bell physics had progressed in leaps and bounds and the paradox at it's heart was conveniently ignored because the results quantum mechanical interpretations were giving were so good [transistors, semi-conductors and the like] and it was not until Bell's work that the problem was re-addressed. Work by physicists in the 60's at Berkely finally put Bell's formula to experimental investigation at which point it was shown that Bhor's model had been the correct one, and Einstein had been wrong. Thus [if I have it correctly] we are now fairly and squarely pinned to the mast of the Copenhagen Interpretation where we have to accept Bhor's statement that everything we regard as 'real' is made up of things that cannot be regarded in themselves as being so. So where does this leave us in respect of our light situation? In the light of this do we now regard light as being neither wave nor particle [both being just it's avatars in the 'real' world of post experimental determination], but rather something 'other' that has no expression outside of the non-real world of the quantum universe?
If we shine light through a diffraction grating we get the characteristic pattern demonstrating interference and explainable by considering light to be wave-like in nature. If on the other hand we use apparatus to show the photoelectric effect [eg the way electrostatically repelling sheets of gold leaf can be stripped of their charge by shining blue/white light on to the charging plate - but not by red light], then we are forced to use the explanation of light being particulate in nature rather than wave like, in order to explain the effect.
So we are using our apparatus to drag light kicking and screaming into our world of 'reality' [where light is either a particle [or not] or a wave [or not]] from the 'other world - the quantum world' - where no such reality exists.
But then we need to explain quantum entanglement.
Nils Bhor put forward his 'Copenhagen Interpretation' where he said that by determining the spin of a particle at place A [where prior to the determination the particle had had no fixed spin direction] we instantaneously determined [and fixed] the spin of an entangled particle at place B, be it ever so far away across the universe. Crucially here we must understand that the 'fixing' of the spin direction is not occurring until the instant we make our measurement - but that the fixing is instant [ie faster than the speed of light in terms of information transfer between the two entangled particles].
This for Einstein was anathema; Does the moon cease to exist when I am not looking at it, he famously asked. After some thought he came up with an alternative idea - that the spin direction was fixed for both particles prior to the measurement being made [ie back in the quantum realm before it is pulled into the 'real' world of observable direction] and thus there was no need for any 'instantaneous transfer' of information between the two separated [but entangled] particles. This conundrum was thought to be irresolvable until the work of John Bell in the 1950's, who proposed a formula which would determine which of the two scenarios was the correct. Between the work of Einstein and bell physics had progressed in leaps and bounds and the paradox at it's heart was conveniently ignored because the results quantum mechanical interpretations were giving were so good [transistors, semi-conductors and the like] and it was not until Bell's work that the problem was re-addressed. Work by physicists in the 60's at Berkely finally put Bell's formula to experimental investigation at which point it was shown that Bhor's model had been the correct one, and Einstein had been wrong. Thus [if I have it correctly] we are now fairly and squarely pinned to the mast of the Copenhagen Interpretation where we have to accept Bhor's statement that everything we regard as 'real' is made up of things that cannot be regarded in themselves as being so. So where does this leave us in respect of our light situation? In the light of this do we now regard light as being neither wave nor particle [both being just it's avatars in the 'real' world of post experimental determination], but rather something 'other' that has no expression outside of the non-real world of the quantum universe?
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
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Fist and Faith
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Vraith
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Coincidentally, the below very recently at Quanta.
Aside...fun in the dark energy thread, too. take a look.
https://www.quantamagazine.org/closed-l ... -20180725/
Aside...fun in the dark energy thread, too. take a look.
https://www.quantamagazine.org/closed-l ... -20180725/
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
-
peter
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- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
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I think the deBroglie-Bhom theory mentioned in the article seemed to imply no contradiction here - but even though it was able to explain the results of the 'delayed choice experiment' did it still leave the problem of retro-causality that besets any other classical explanation that attempts to restore definitive atributes to 'the smokey dragon'?wayfriend wrote:Anyone who has been to the ocean has probably seen that waves can bounce of walls. Which leads one to ask, why is behaving like a particle and behaving like a wave considered a contradictory condition?
If I get it, at the end of the article we are back (if not fairly and squarely, then at least tentatively) in Copenhagen..........but it seems to me that it's more likely a case of ' it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings'!
(Thanks for posting the links V. That's a damn good site you're plugged into there.
)The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
Vraith
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- Posts: 10621
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
- Location: everywhere, all the time
peter wrote:
(Thanks for posting the links V. That's a damn good site you're plugged into there.
Yea, I like it...it covers a fairly wide range of things you don't see many other places...
And, it kinda teases you regularly....you start reading an article, you think it's a good 'splainer for amateurs, and it is...but it doesn't let you STAY comfy, it dives deep into the dark and dense.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
