Stranger Things

[Cagliostro]

Finished Episode 3 last night, and yes, Hashi, I see what you mean. Previous to that, I was thinking "well, more cursing than in the previous season, but I try not to be too much of a hypocrite toward that, so I'm ok. But yeah, the end of episode three where

Spoiler

Will stands up to the beasty and it doesn't appear to go the way he thought it would

seems like something I should wait on.

[Zarathustra]

This season was very disappointing. If you've seen the first season, you have no reason to watch this inferior retread of the same material. Nothing new was revealed. They had to bring in new characters to make what everyone else already knew "new." This show was already a derivative nostalgia tour through familiar genre tropes. Now it's a derivative nostalgia tour through its own first season.

[Cagliostro]

I disagree. It definitely wasn't as scary as the first season, but I like the characters quite a bit and they definitely did them justice in the new season, for the most part. And I liked the new characters. Yes, sometimes it seemed things happened for the convenience of the plot or to include a trope, but I really thought it was much more fun than the first season, and the dialogue and character development for the most part were better. I would say it would have been nice to have a little more info about the Upside Down, more insight into Max and her family, and less "justice For Barb" pandering. But I found it even more enjoyable than the first season.
It reminds me of the Alien debate: which is better - Alien or Aliens. My argument for these movies and Stranger Things seasons are that the first one is scarier and surprising, while the second is more fun to watch and action packed.

[wayfriend]

I finally got the family organized enough to finish all 9 episodes together. I really liked the second season. It feels like a bridge season but I enjoyed it thoroughly anyway. I particularly enjoyed that they emphasized some different characters this year. It was like they were intentionally sharing the spotlight ... They ARE an ensemble in the truest sense. I didn't get the point of Max's brother, but as I said, bridge season. (Now he's a nod to King!) Clearly Dr Mad About You is going to be back, too. And Eight. And Mom. Overall they expanded the universe quite a bit, and every character developed. And they played some good music. I feel like the final ending is going to be apocalyptic and way bigger than the town.

Oh --- it got a little meta when Lucas explains the story to Max and she says, that's not a very original sorry, kinda derivative. Tongue firmly stuck out!!!

[Zarathustra]

I like the characters quite a bit and they definitely did them justice in the new season, for the most part. And I liked the new characters.

I felt they were consistent with the established characters, but only because they repeated their stories. Will was once again the "Jeremiah" of this tale: a helpless son who is taken from mother by a sinister force giving him access to the Upsidedown. Mom even repeats the whole Christmas lights scene by making the crayon map in her home. The same basic dilemma defines mom and son, except this time it's rushed and there's very little mystery to it for the audience or the characters themselves.

Which brings us to the new characters. I think they brought them in just to have people for whom these events can appear mysterious, so at least someone in the story has a reason to be surprised when confronted with the Upsidedown phenomena, instead of just matter-of-fact about facing something they've already faced last season. Without the new characters, there is no one to give the audience the "holy shit" perspective. But what did they contribute to the story? One pointlessly died. One is a generic asshole (to take the place of the long-haired jerk boyfriend from last season, since he's a good guy now), and Max earns her place in the group by being pretty.

But that's just my opinion. Glad you guys enjoyed it.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I didn't get the point of Max's brother

He is in the story primarily to be a human antagonist to both Steve and The Party (he really doesn't like Lucas, probably because Lucas is black).

I disagree about Max--she doesn't finally make it into the Party because of her looks but because she fits in with them so well. As far as Will being the lost/attacked person again...well, none of the others have any connection to the Upside Down and he actually brought some of it back with him. Besides, he is the mage of the party so weird things are supposed to happen to him/around him more often than for the others.

More generic questions, though, and I don't know who has watched it so I will spoiler this section.

Spoiler

Brenner can't really be alive, can he? I thought the Demogorgon got him.

How long has the Mind Flayer been present in the Upside Down? Based on the prevalence of all the vines there it has probably been growing for millennia. Is it native to the Upside Down, did it find its way there by accident, or was it sent there on purpose by someone else?

Now that the government knows that the Upside Down exists and can be reached, will they try to open another gate in an attempt to weaponize it? What if they already opened another gate?

Gates normally open both ways--is it somehow possible the Mind Flayer to open a gate from its side?

What happens when other MKULTRA successes become weaponized and/or decide to cooperate fully with Brenner/the government? What if Brenner decides to use them for his own purposes? (That last question comes directly from Firestarter--John Rainbird was working for the government, yes, but he clearly had his own agenda.)

What happened to the pieces of the Mind Flayer which left Will? Did they go back through the gate or are they still here?

Is it still possible to capture flashes of the Upside Down on video now that the gate is closed? It is still there, of course.

[Cagliostro]

I'll field the first question:

Spoiler

I never thought Brenner was gone in the first place, and fully expected his character to return this season. No body, no death. The only major exception to that rule that I have seen has been Sirius Black in the Harry Potter series. It was definitely the author saying that he is definitely not coming back that made me realize it was for real.
After all, Eleven disappeared too, and she was back this season.

[MsMary]

Binge-watched this over the weekend. I thought it was great, a bit creepier and more "yuck" factor than season 1, if you know what I mean.

I can't get over the sliminess of the some of the stuff.

Spoiler

I think it was obvious that Eleven was coming back, from the hint given at the end of season 1, when Hopper left the Eggos in that box.

Not as convinced the Brenner is still alive, though it's certainly possible.

I, too, am curious about the other children who are experimented on.

Some good questions in your spoilered comments upthread, Hashi.

Will be interesting to see where it goes. If it continues.

[Skyweir]

Yeah my kids were super excited and they loved it .. and by kids, there adults .. and I was .. meh .. it's alright

It wasn't the worst show I've ever seen .. but not the best either .. maybe it's an age thing

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Will be interesting to see where it goes. If it continues.

The Duffer Brothers planned for five seasons as the maximum length of the show, clearly taking their cue from Babylon 5. That is long enough to have a great run but short enough so that you don't paint yourself into any corners plot-wise. It is always painful to see shows having to retcon themselves (I'm looking at *you*, Star Trek). If each season is a calendar year apart that will take the Party up to 1987, at which point they should be juniors in high school (for reference, the main characters are the same age I am but one school grade behind me).

[dlbpharmd]

I've now seen Season 1, which I thought was good, but I have to say a bit overrrated. Definitely felt like It and Goonies, as someone mentioned above. And, I agree that the show definitely nails the 80s.

Season 2, I'm not enjoying. I don't really like El out on her own, and I don't really like the whole Aliens derivative feel.

[Skyweir]

I've now seen Season 1, which I thought was good, but I have to say a bit overrrated. Definitely felt like It and Goonies, as someone mentioned above. And, I agree that the show definitely nails the 80s.

Season 2, I'm not enjoying. I don't really like El out on her own, and I don't really like the whole Aliens derivative feel.

Yep I see the Goonies connection! and yeah agreed

[MsMary]

I saw there's a sort of Stranger Things behind the scenes episode on Netflix. I think it's called Beyond Stranger Things, or something like that. I added it to my queue.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

It's okay, just interviews with the cast, the writers/creators, and one of the main directors.

[MsMary]

Yeah, I figured it was something like that. I'll probably give it a look anyway.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Maybe it was just me, but Hopper did not seem like himself in Season 3--he was crankier and more short-tempered when compared to Seasons 1 and 2. Maybe David Harbour was phoning it in since he was probably more concerned with getting ready for Hellboy while shooting this season. *shrug*

This wasn't the direction I would have taken with Season 3 but then I am not a scriptwriter on the show. Still enjoyable, to be certain, but it didn't have the...gravitas...that the first two did.

[Skyweir]

Nobody likes a cranky bad tempered dude. I dont blame him for not feeling it was a natural evolution for his character

[Cagliostro]

Larrrrrrdd, this season was dumb. Even with a bit of suspension of reality, the first season was easy to go along with and the rules made sense. This season re-invented itself with all the stupidity of a lot of 80s movies.
With that said, it was probably also one of the most fun seasons of this show. Probably because my inner critic learned to shut the hell up and just go with it. Season 2 was saddled with Eleven's search for others from the whatsit facility, and seriously bogged it down. This season had very few saggy moments, and when things were just starting to get too serious, they'd have a wonderful character moment to give the feels and/or humor. I can't say I ever got even the slightest tinge of a scare this time, but it was a great trip.
Which brings me to something that occurred to me during this season - has throwing people around replaced punching people? Yeah, there are a few fist fights, but usually man vs. man. Women and younger kids get thrown across the room. It's a weird trend that after I got thinking about it, started to realize that Avengers does a lot of people throwing or punching of mask or CGI characters. Next to no fist to skin, particularly face, punching in the Marvel movies. A subtle toning down of violence that I hadn't noticed until now.
And now, the spoilers:

Spoiler

Was the liquid meat monster supposed to be a callback to Terminator 2 and the liquid metal? That was gross and stupid.
I really dug Robin, the new character from the ice cream shop. If they keep adding new characters to the cast, they'll have an army pretty soon.
Glad Will didn't end up on the sidelines again this season, although actually he did. The only purpose he mainly served was as the Harry Potter Early Radar System, "ouch my scar is burning which must mean the bad guy is around."
Are we even supposed to think Hopper may be gone? The clues are so obvious that he is ok. Which now makes me wonder if they are going to play a switcheroo and make him honestly dead after all the clues they gave. At least that would be surprising.
Not sad to see jerk brother Billy go. As much as they tried to play up his tragic side, I just couldn't feel it.
While the kids were down in the Austin Powers underground base, I kept asking myself, "how did nobody see them moving so much hardware in," and "what do these kids expect they are going to do once they find something?" And then I told that voice to shut the hell up.
What the hell was Mr. Heavyfoot? Why did they make such a big deal out of how loudly he walked? I didn't get the point of that character at all other than giving the show a second Terminator.
And why didn't they just set meat beast on fire? I figured that would be the point of the fireworks.
Oh well.

[wayfriend]

I thought this whole season was a whole lot of fun.

But then they went and blew it.

Spoiler

Hopper's death was so pointless it was a tragedy. In the time it took for Hopper to make its-okay eyes with Joyce, he could have run back into the control room with Joyce. Or Joyce could have waited 2 more seconds after waiting so long already. But no. It looked to me like Harbour was trying to get out of doing another season, or Hopper was trying to get out of his dinner date with Joyce, until I saw the post-credits scene. Now it just looks inept. We're talking so inept that it rings inept bells at the viewer.

Other than that I loved it. They left lots of hooks for season 4 all over the place.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Spoiler

Was the liquid meat monster supposed to be a callback to Terminator 2 and the liquid metal? That was gross and stupid.
I really dug Robin, the new character from the ice cream shop. If they keep adding new characters to the cast, they'll have an army pretty soon.
Glad Will didn't end up on the sidelines again this season, although actually he did. The only purpose he mainly served was as the Harry Potter Early Radar System, "ouch my scar is burning which must mean the bad guy is around."
Are we even supposed to think Hopper may be gone? The clues are so obvious that he is ok. Which now makes me wonder if they are going to play a switcheroo and make him honestly dead after all the clues they gave. At least that would be surprising.
Not sad to see jerk brother Billy go. As much as they tried to play up his tragic side, I just couldn't feel it.
While the kids were down in the Austin Powers underground base, I kept asking myself, "how did nobody see them moving so much hardware in," and "what do these kids expect they are going to do once they find something?" And then I told that voice to shut the hell up.
What the hell was Mr. Heavyfoot? Why did they make such a big deal out of how loudly he walked? I didn't get the point of that character at all other than giving the show a second Terminator.
And why didn't they just set meat beast on fire? I figured that would be the point of the fireworks.
Oh well.

Spoiler

I think that was just a side-effect of the remnants of the Mind Flayer being itself--"not of this dimension" and all that jazz. What was up with all the chemical eating, anyway? That would have rendered the meat puppets useless, unless it was part of the process to convert them into goo, which means the Mind Flayer knows Right-Side Up chemistry.

I kind of feel sorry for Will now--he has had two years of his life ripped away and while everyone else is growing up and moving on he is standing still.

re: moving in all the equpiment. Think of any construction site you might drive by on a weekly basis. Do you know what they are doing there? Do you *know* what they are doing there? No, you don't.

Heavyfoot was probably just some 1980s Russian jacked-up-on-steroids mook, more along the lines of Drago even though they did a good job finding an actor who kind of looks like Arnold from those days, at least in the face.

Molotov cocktails would have worked better than those fireworks...but Fourth of July, so there.