President Trump

[SoulBiter]

If I could be a Bidenist for a day
I would do my thinking the other way
First I would..... ummmm
Yeah that, you know.
If I could be Bidenist for a day

[wayfriend]

Trump's advice could lead to considerable chaos and recriminations at polling stations if it is followed by thousands of Republican voters. It could also lengthen the time that it takes for votes to be counted. Trump is already raising likely delays in tabulating results to claim, falsely, that the election is not secure.

Patrick Gannon, the board's public information officer, said people do not need to go to the polls on Election Day if their ballot has been counted.

"In fact, we'd strongly advise against that, to allow other people who haven't yet cast a ballot to vote."

The state's Democratic Attorney General Josh Stein said he would do everything in his power to ensure the will of the people is upheld.

"President Trump outrageously encouraged NCians to break the law in order to help him sow chaos in our election. Make sure you vote, but do NOT vote twice!" Stein tweeted.

Voting arrangements, which vary from state to state, are often complicated and can confuse some voters. So at a minimum, it is irresponsible for a President, with all of his visibility and power, to repeatedly cast doubt on the system.

And more fundamentally, voting twice is illegal.

[TheFallen]

No attribution for that quote, WF? It'd be interesting to know which media vehicle that op-ed piece was carried by and the affiliation of such...

The piece is of course arrant and trite partisan bullshit... as is blatantly obvious from its very first sentence:-

Trump's advice could lead to considerable chaos and recriminations at polling stations if it is followed by thousands of Republican voters.

Hardly worth debunking because it's so damn facile but...

1. Trump did not issue advice, let alone targeted advice.

2. Very obviously, "considerable chaos and recriminations" could be led to, REGARDLESS OF the political leanings of the hypothetical "thousands of voters" following this non-existent advice.

...or perhaps the unattributed author of the piece means to suggest that everything would be absolutely fine and dandy if thousands of Dem voters attempt to hijack or subvert the election and that it's only putative Republican ones that would be a problem?



I can just hear certain elements of the Left gleefully grabbing this particular ball and running with it. "Looky! Look what the Orange Devil Incarnate Said! Quick - everyone make sure you try to vote multiple times, if we're to win the battle for the soul of America! Tell all your friends to do the same!"

(I fact I suspect the above is a narrative that's been quietly disseminated for a fair while now...)

[Gaius Octavius]

Trump made a statement about how his supporters should vote twice. Those are his words. Of course, he could say he was just "joking," but he knows damn well some of his most hardcore supporters will attempt it. This isn't shit you joke about as a politician, period.

Besides, the entire fucking point is not even the fact that some lunatics will try it because Trump said to do it, but because Donald Trump has a CLEAR and CONSISTENT DISREGARD for democratic norms. He doesn't have any respect for our democratic republic. He doesn't know how it functions most of the time. He's a bastard.

[TheFallen]

Well, I'd say you've clearly bought your lifetime season ticket on the Hyperpolarised Express, Nano...

The rapidly accelerating, purely binary and radicalised polarisation that you quintessentially typify does beg two questions, though. (And of course I freely concede that, for every extremist Dem-worshipping and/or Trump-damning Nano, there's very liable to be an equally extremist Pub-worshipping and/or Biden-damning counterpart).

If people (on both sides) are right now as swivel-eyed, as vein-popping and as mouth-foaming with "hate speak" as they have clearly already become...

1) What the fuck are things going to be like by November 3rd? US voters have got a whole two more months yet to work themselves up - or more like, to be whipped up by their preferred messianic (but actually entirely self-serving) demagogue - into an even greater state of incandescent fanatical rage... what's that going to look like?

2) What the fuck are things going to be like with approximately half the US electorate on November 4th?

[Gaius Octavius]

Well, I'd say you've clearly bought your lifetime season ticket on the Hyperpolarised Express, Nano...

The rapidly accelerating, purely binary and radicalised polarisation that you quintessentially typify does beg two questions, though. (And of course I freely concede that, for every extremist Dem-worshipping and/or Trump-damning Nano, there's very liable to be an equally extremist Pub-worshipping and/or Biden-damning counterpart).

If people (on both sides) are right now as swivel-eyed, as vein-popping and as mouth-foaming with "hate speak" as they have clearly already become...

1) What the fuck are things going to be like by November 3rd? US voters have got a whole two more months yet to work themselves up - or more like, to be whipped up by their preferred messianic (but actually entirely self-serving) demagogue - into an even greater state of incandescent fanatical rage... what's that going to look like?

2) What the fuck are things going to be like with approximately half the US electorate on November 4th?

Yeah, no. Sorry, TF, but I really like you and think your posts are really great. You make good points most of the time.

However...

It is absolutely not "swivel-eyed lunacy" to be angry over Trump literally telling supporters to go vote twice. It is completely unacceptable for a politician to tell people that, even if he was joking.

And yes, he has shown consistent behavior that suggests that he does not respect the democratic process in the US and that he has very little understanding of things in general, dismisses expert advice, and then claims to be the one who knows best.

He is literally a danger to the country because of that one fact, and that alone is sufficient reason to vote him out of office.

I hate to be that guy but your point-of-view as a foreigner obscures the realities that are going on in this country.

[Lazy Luke]

Well, I'd say you've clearly bought your lifetime season ticket on the Hyperpolarised Express, Nano...

The rapidly accelerating, purely binary and radicalised polarisation that you quintessentially typify does beg two questions, though. (And of course I freely concede that, for every extremist Dem-worshipping and/or Trump-damning Nano, there's very liable to be an equally extremist Pub-worshipping and/or Biden-damning counterpart).

If people (on both sides) are right now as swivel-eyed, as vein-popping and as mouth-foaming with "hate speak" as they have clearly already become...

1) What the fuck are things going to be like by November 3rd? US voters have got a whole two more months yet to work themselves up - or more like, to be whipped up by their preferred messianic (but actually entirely self-serving) demagogue - into an even greater state of incandescent fanatical rage... what's that going to look like?

2) What the fuck are things going to be like with approximately half the US electorate on November 4th?

Yeah, no. Sorry, TF, but I really like you and think your posts are really great. You make good points most of the time.

However...

It is absolutely not "swivel-eyed lunacy" to be angry over Trump literally telling supporters to go vote twice. It is completely unacceptable for a politician to tell people that, even if he was joking.

And yes, he has shown consistent behavior that suggests that he does not respect the democratic process in the US and that he has very little understanding of things in general, dismisses expert advice, and then claims to be the one who knows best.

He is literally a danger to the country because of that one fact, and that alone is sufficient reason to vote him out of office.

I like when the Tank surreptitiously comments on what's happening elsewhere on Kevinswatch.

[Lazy Luke]

Well, I'd say you've clearly bought your lifetime season ticket on the Hyperpolarised Express, Nano...

The rapidly accelerating, purely binary and radicalised polarisation that you quintessentially typify does beg two questions, though. (And of course I freely concede that, for every extremist Dem-worshipping and/or Trump-damning Nano, there's very liable to be an equally extremist Pub-worshipping and/or Biden-damning counterpart).

If people (on both sides) are right now as swivel-eyed, as vein-popping and as mouth-foaming with "hate speak" as they have clearly already become...

1) What the fuck are things going to be like by November 3rd? US voters have got a whole two more months yet to work themselves up - or more like, to be whipped up by their preferred messianic (but actually entirely self-serving) demagogue - into an even greater state of incandescent fanatical rage... what's that going to look like?

2) What the fuck are things going to be like with approximately half the US electorate on November 4th?

Yeah, no. Sorry, TF, but I really like you and think your posts are really great. You make good points most of the time.

However...

It is absolutely not "swivel-eyed lunacy" to be angry over Trump literally telling supporters to go vote twice. It is completely unacceptable for a politician to tell people that, even if he was joking.

And yes, he has shown consistent behavior that suggests that he does not respect the democratic process in the US and that he has very little understanding of things in general, dismisses expert advice, and then claims to be the one who knows best.

He is literally a danger to the country because of that one fact, and that alone is sufficient reason to vote him out of office.

I hate to be that guy but your point-of-view as a foreigner obscures the realities that are going on in this country.

Oops, I somehow managed to miss out that last sentence!

[Hashi Lebwohl]

No one has to tell Democrats to vote more than once--that is "the Chicago way" because Democrats have held to a policy of "vote early, vote often" for a long time.

If you can stand in line at a grocery store then you can stand in line to vote.

If Nancy Pelosi can ignore CDC guidelines, as well as State and city laws, to get her hair done without a mask or social distancing, then everyone can go vote in person.

[Gaius Octavius]

No one has to tell Democrats to vote more than once--that is "the Chicago way" because Democrats have held to a policy of "vote early, vote often" for a long time.

If you can stand in line at a grocery store then you can stand in line to vote.

If Nancy Pelosi can ignore CDC guidelines, as well as State and city laws, to get her hair done without a mask or social distancing, then everyone can go vote in person.

You mischaracterized my post. I said that Trump told his own supporters to vote twice. Trump is inciting election fraud.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Trump's supporters don't follow his off-the-cuff suggestions simply because he appears to suggest something.

Meanwhile, Democrats are actively engaged in election fraud. In Harris County (that's Houston, for those of you who don't know) the elections people there--all Democrats, mind you--mailed out a ton of ballots in violation of State law. Those ballots are ripe to be stolen from mailboxes and sent in fraudulently, which is why Paxton (Texas Attorney General) had to issue a cease-and-desist as well as file a lawsuit againt it.

[TheFallen]

Yeah, no. Sorry, TF, but I really like you and think your posts are really great. You make good points most of the time.

Thanks for your kind words, Nano... genuinely appreciated.

(To correct you slightly. I actually make good points ALL of the time. It's just that occasionally these get missed by some).

It is absolutely not "swivel-eyed lunacy" to be angry over Trump literally telling supporters to go vote twice. It is completely unacceptable for a politician to tell people that, even if he was joking.

I to a not insignificant extent agree. I've already said that Trump's comment was both petty and childish - and thus not befitting of a POTUS.

Having said that,there is a core point within Trump's comment that is worth being made - and that is of course about the potential of voter fraud. Trump is (admittedly very petulantly and with an obvious agenda - one shared by both sides - of getting excuses in early) saying "Well, the Dems are all busily assuring everyone that there's no possibility of voter fraud. They're saying 1) that every mailed-in ballot will be checked for validity, authenticity and potential of duplication, 2) that, having undergone said stringent checking, every mail-in ballot will be properly registered and counted and 3) that if anyone has submitted a mailed-in vote, they will be unable to vote a second time, either by mail-in or by turning up in person. Why not go check to prove to yourselves that both statements are in fact true?"

As Hashi's pointed out, the encouragement to "vote early and vote often" has been mooted as a tacit cross-party tactic for years. It's just been kept far lower profile.

And yes, he has shown consistent behavior that suggests that he does not respect the democratic process in the US and that he has very little understanding of things in general, dismisses expert advice, and then claims to be the one who knows best.

I don't particularly disagree with any of that evaluation.

But - and here's my point about swivel-eyed lunacy and hyperpolarised hate speak - the above analysis is very different in justifiability and measuredness than your earlier impassioned "Trump's a bastard". That's a purely emotive assertion and as such, smacks of someone who's been probably unwittingly duped into buying into the tragically facile "allies of the Light versus agents of the Dark" bullshit paradigm being oh so vigorously peddled on all fronts.

He is literally a danger to the country because of that one fact, and that alone is sufficient reason to vote him out of office.

Here I disagree - and this is my single biggest concern with the rampant and utterly binary hyperpolarisation of the US electorate. So many have been suckered - or better put, radicalised by deliberately propagandist and thus specious framing of the narrative - into completely buying into an absolutist fallacy. It is quite deliberate "whataboutism"... completely intentional "don't worry about looking at us... just check out how shit the other guys are! That's all you need to know!" It is quite literally the exact definition of misdirection.

Here for the record is the non-sequitur at the heart of that fervently spun misframing.

1) The incumbent is a piss-poor president. (Undeniably true - there's a whole heap of evidence to support that assertion).

2) Ergo anyone but the incumbent must inevitably be an improvement. (Undeniably false - that is both definitively and logically not the sole possible conclusion resulting from the first statement above, no matter how truthful that first statement may be).

This is the danger of the polarised white hats vs black hats myth perpetrated by both sides to one extent or another. They both want you to focus exclusively on how shit (or how dark... or how evil) the other side is. Because that is then very likely to ensure that people unwittingly keep one eye blinkered and so do not realise how crucial it is to also take a step back and dispassionately consider the relative merits or flaws within the alternative proffered choice. It's nothing but a pre-meditated hustle relying upon oversimplification.

I would thus urge anyone to consider both sides of an utterly binary equation as fully as they are able, before making any choice. I realise this is - or at least should be - "stating the bleeding obvious"... but from what I'm seeing all too frequently, it needs reminding.

I hate to be that guy but your point-of-view as a foreigner obscures the realities that are going on in this country.

Oh feel free to be that guy as much as you like. I would however posit that the very fact that I am removed from the incessant noise and the overly emotive, fraught and hyperpartisan hurly-burly lends me the capability to see things more objectively... more dispassionately. Sure, I may miss out on some of the day-to-day detail, but that minor disadvantage may well be entirely offset (and more) by a little distance allowing the wood to be seen for the trees more distinctly.

I ask again - with a view to the recent rapid acceleration of the rise in temperature within the Tank of all places (which one would at least ike to think could be considered as a more measured and thoughtful place, rather than as merely a pure and exact representative microcosm of the emotional intensity of the US as a whole)...

...what the fuck are things going to be like in the US in general in two months' time?

[Skyweir]

Lets hope calm and collected.

For me as a foreigner I dont prescribe you US partisan politics.

That little distance is absolutely why I see things arguably very differently.

Good posts up thread Nano. Well thought out, measured and structured responses ... and I agree ... such is not something a POTUS should say.

We know the power and influence Trump has with his followers, we have seen Trumpers form militias and travel to the border to safeguard it, we have seen that guy that deposited letter bombs in Texas was it ... it was a while back now, and we have seen interviews with Trumpers who see Trump as a socio-economic saviour of sorts, we know that way too many Americans have swallowed bleach, used bleach to wash their food in etc

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.for ... -cure/amp/

Despite it defying reason.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

Here for the record is the non-sequitur at the heart of that fervently spun misframing.

1) The incumbent is a piss-poor president. (Undeniably true - there's a whole heap of evidence to support that assertion).

2) Ergo anyone but the incumbent must inevitably be an improvement. (Undeniably false - that is both definitively and logically not the sole possible conclusion resulting from the first statement above, no matter how truthful that first statement may be).

This is the danger of the polarised white hats vs black hats myth perpetrated by both sides to one extent or another. They both want you to focus exclusively on how shit (or how dark... or how evil) the other side is. Because that is then very likely to ensure that people unwittingly keep one eye blinkered and so do not realise how crucial it is to also take a step back and dispassionately consider the relative merits or flaws within the alternative proffered choice. It's nothing but a pre-meditated hustle relying upon oversimplification.

I would thus urge anyone to consider both sides of an utterly binary equation as fully as they are able, before making any choice. I realise this is - or at least should be - "stating the bleeding obvious"... but from what I'm seeing all too frequently, it needs reminding.

Unfortunately that's all but impossible. When wearing a MAGA hat makes you a target - and there are plenty of examples of that, from people driven out of restaurants, losing their jobs, Nick Sandman, to Jay Danielson - there's no chance for discourse. Look at this forum. Merely suggesting we not rush to judgement makes us racist.

No, it's all about our team winning and your team losing. And not just losing, but either being convinced of how wrong you are or being destroyed. It's a modern day crusade.

I ask again - with a view to the recent rapid acceleration of the rise in temperature within the Tank of all places (which one would at least ike to think could be considered as a more measured and thoughtful place, rather than as merely a pure and exact representative microcosm of the emotional intensity of the US as a whole)...

This happens every election cycle. A few bad actors show up, poison the well, call the names, whip everyone up, then vanish when it's over. They're no different than the out-of-town agitators who show up, wreck the community, then leave others to clean up the mess. They're cowards.

...what the fuck are things going to be like in the US in general in two months' time?

Sadly, worse.

[sgt.null]

If the left loses its going to get a whole lot worse.

[Skyweir]

Is that even possible?

Worse than what? Whats happening now?

[Gaius Octavius]

Trump supports defunding Social Security.

[Gaius Octavius]

Here for the record is the non-sequitur at the heart of that fervently spun misframing.

1) The incumbent is a piss-poor president. (Undeniably true - there's a whole heap of evidence to support that assertion).

2) Ergo anyone but the incumbent must inevitably be an improvement. (Undeniably false - that is both definitively and logically not the sole possible conclusion resulting from the first statement above, no matter how truthful that first statement may be).

This is the danger of the polarised white hats vs black hats myth perpetrated by both sides to one extent or another. They both want you to focus exclusively on how shit (or how dark... or how evil) the other side is. Because that is then very likely to ensure that people unwittingly keep one eye blinkered and so do not realise how crucial it is to also take a step back and dispassionately consider the relative merits or flaws within the alternative proffered choice. It's nothing but a pre-meditated hustle relying upon oversimplification.

I would thus urge anyone to consider both sides of an utterly binary equation as fully as they are able, before making any choice. I realise this is - or at least should be - "stating the bleeding obvious"... but from what I'm seeing all too frequently, it needs reminding.

Unfortunately that's all but impossible. When wearing a MAGA hat makes you a target - and there are plenty of examples of that, from people driven out of restaurants, losing their jobs, Nick Sandman, to Jay Danielson - there's no chance for discourse. Look at this forum. Merely suggesting we not rush to judgement makes us racist.

No, it's all about our team winning and your team losing. And not just losing, but either being convinced of how wrong you are or being destroyed. It's a modern day crusade.

I ask again - with a view to the recent rapid acceleration of the rise in temperature within the Tank of all places (which one would at least ike to think could be considered as a more measured and thoughtful place, rather than as merely a pure and exact representative microcosm of the emotional intensity of the US as a whole)...

This happens every election cycle. A few bad actors show up, poison the well, call the names, whip everyone up, then vanish when it's over. They're no different than the out-of-town agitators who show up, wreck the community, then leave others to clean up the mess. They're cowards.

...what the fuck are things going to be like in the US in general in two months' time?

Sadly, worse.

No one cares about your feelings.

DESTROYED WITH FACTS AND LOGIC. MY WIFE IS A DOCTOR.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

Here for the record is the non-sequitur at the heart of that fervently spun misframing.

1) The incumbent is a piss-poor president. (Undeniably true - there's a whole heap of evidence to support that assertion).

2) Ergo anyone but the incumbent must inevitably be an improvement. (Undeniably false - that is both definitively and logically not the sole possible conclusion resulting from the first statement above, no matter how truthful that first statement may be).

This is the danger of the polarised white hats vs black hats myth perpetrated by both sides to one extent or another. They both want you to focus exclusively on how shit (or how dark... or how evil) the other side is. Because that is then very likely to ensure that people unwittingly keep one eye blinkered and so do not realise how crucial it is to also take a step back and dispassionately consider the relative merits or flaws within the alternative proffered choice. It's nothing but a pre-meditated hustle relying upon oversimplification.

I would thus urge anyone to consider both sides of an utterly binary equation as fully as they are able, before making any choice. I realise this is - or at least should be - "stating the bleeding obvious"... but from what I'm seeing all too frequently, it needs reminding.

Unfortunately that's all but impossible. When wearing a MAGA hat makes you a target - and there are plenty of examples of that, from people driven out of restaurants, losing their jobs, Nick Sandman, to Jay Danielson - there's no chance for discourse. Look at this forum. Merely suggesting we not rush to judgement makes us racist.

No, it's all about our team winning and your team losing. And not just losing, but either being convinced of how wrong you are or being destroyed. It's a modern day crusade.

I ask again - with a view to the recent rapid acceleration of the rise in temperature within the Tank of all places (which one would at least ike to think could be considered as a more measured and thoughtful place, rather than as merely a pure and exact representative microcosm of the emotional intensity of the US as a whole)...

This happens every election cycle. A few bad actors show up, poison the well, call the names, whip everyone up, then vanish when it's over. They're no different than the out-of-town agitators who show up, wreck the community, then leave others to clean up the mess. They're cowards.

...what the fuck are things going to be like in the US in general in two months' time?

Sadly, worse.

No one cares about your feelings.

DESTROYED WITH FACTS AND LOGIC. MY WIFE IS A DOCTOR.

Started in on the ether early today?

There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge.

[sgt.null]

Is that even possible?

Worse than what? Whats happening now?

Well with the left currently rioting, arsoning, assaulting, occasional murder. What if they get really angry.