Angus' worst crime?

Post by **Revan** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:33 pm

What do you think it was?

Post by **Nav** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:35 am

Tough one, there's a fair bit of competition.

There's those miners he killed in cold blood, the stuff he did to Morn, the people he sold to the amnion and lets not forget the murder of defenceless old lady Norna Fasner...

I think I'll go with the amnion fodder.

Post by **UrLord** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:03 am

how can you separate any of those? They are all essentially the same act...(except for the killing of Norna, which I don't consider a crime at all)

Post by **Baradakas** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:14 am

Yeah, I'd call the 'Norna Act' more of a euthenasia thing. But as many pointed out in the books, selling someone's genetic identity to the amnion was the most horrific (to the characters anyway). Still, the degredation of Morn is, in my mind the worst.

Post by **Revan** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:45 am

Nav wrote:lets not forget the murder of defenceless old lady Norna Fasner...

hmmm.... I don't think that was his worst crime... I think it showed her mercy... Would you want to be in Norna Fasner's place... She wanted to die anyways...

Post by **Revan** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:46 am

I think it's between selling people to the Amnioni and what he did to Morn...

Post by **Nav** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:44 am

Hmm, maybe I should have

that last one.

Post by **Revan** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:56 am

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:27 pm

Darth Revan wrote:I think it's between selling people to the Amnioni and what he did to Morn...

Yes. I vote for selling the people, because it involved more than one person.

Post by **Revan** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:28 pm

I agree. yet I think they were both truly evil acts...

Post by **aTOMiC** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:28 pm

I found his first crime to have the most impact on my feelings for the character. After he killed the miners and the incident with Morn's family.

Post by **Revan** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:06 am

he didn't touch Morns family... that was Morn who did that... Or rather it was Morn's Gap Sickness... Though Angus had kiled her father...

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:18 am

It's a toss up to me between the horrible things he did in the Real Story and selling those poor souls to the Amnion...

Post by **Loredoctor** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:44 am

I think selling the people to the Amnion was the worst. Rape is atrocious, but being converted into Amnion is worse.

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:02 pm

Well, its more than the rape...its killing those miners in cold blood, killing the blinded Capt. Davies, and then turning Morn into a zone-implanted slave, including, of course, raping her repeatedly...

Post by **Dragonlily** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:52 pm

Morn kept saying that even more important to her than her son, was her humanity. She clearly considered the facilitation of mutating people into Amnion to be the worst thing of all, bar none.

Post by **Revan** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:25 am

Lets just face it... Angus was a bastard, and many crimes he committed, we did not know about... they were all as bad as one another...

Post by **The Dreaming** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:58 am

What do you mean "Defenseless Murder of Norma Fasner"?! That was probably the only time we ever get a clear view of Angus' newly developed Conscience.

My God, she is in the crib

Angus knows exactly what torture it is for her to live, and acts on his conscience. In fact, he feels so strongly her pain that he destroys every piece of equipment in the room. Regardless of what you believe the morality of Euthanasia is, the fact that Angus was able to feel such strong empathy for someone was extremely profound.

And she ASKED him to do it!

I think Angus' greatest crime was the 24 people he gave to the Amnion. That was almost as bad a Sorus' betrayal. Like Sorus however, he redeemed his soul. Also, Mark Vestibule, the progeny of this act, got a bullet in his god forsaken Brain.

Post by **jelerak** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:02 pm

It has been a while since I have read this series. It is obviously time for a re-read. (Gotta keep myself busy for the next 2 years or so 'til Fatal Revenant). But I seem to think along these lines :

Without Angus' sale of the miners to the Amnion, he never gains the knowledge of how to edit datacores, presumabely the only human that knows how to manage this. The edit of his own datacore is what gives him free will to basically put an end to the UMCP and Amnion threat to mankind. Therefore, I believe that the end justifies the means. Yes, Angus had no idea at the time that his ability to edit datacores would one day possibly save the human race. But what would have happened if he never had that ability?

Next...

Should he had never inserted the zone implant into Morn, her mind would have been gone by the results of the force growing on Davies. Without Morn, who would champion the fight to the UMCP or the Amnion? Again, Angus' actions were not by his intentions of saving the human race, but the end does once again justify the means.

Now it has been probably about five years since I last re-read the series, so if I am very likely to have missed something here. But that is how I seem to remember thinking about Angus' crimes at the end of the series. As a justification to his crimes, he saved the human race.

His worst crime to me was the way that he basically led Pup down the path to ruin. Pup could have been saved. His plight could have been avoided. Angus took his fears and emotions and twisted those to his goals, and took the poor kid and led him to believe that suicide was his only road to salvation.

Anyway...just my opinions...

Post by **Nathan** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:45 pm

But that suicide ended with the destruction of the direct Amnion threat at Earth.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Angus' worst crime?

Angus' worst crime?