President Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

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Hashi Lebwohl
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

When is the United States going to withdraw from the United Nations and take our money with us? Good luck doing jack shit without our money, UN.
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The US played an instrumental role in its foundation. Ever since, been threatening to take its ball and go home. :lol:

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Hashi Lebwohl
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Avatar wrote:The US played an instrumental role in its foundation. Ever since, been threatening to take its ball and go home. :lol:

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Eh, I wouldn't be opposed to it really. If it must crumble as a result, let it, although I don't think it would.

What they really need to do though is scrap the vetoes.

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Avatar wrote:Eh, I wouldn't be opposed to it really. If it must crumble as a result, let it, although I don't think it would.

What they really need to do though is scrap the vetoes.

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Hashi Lebwohl
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Rawedge Rim wrote:What they really need to do though is scrap the vetoes.

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Who will enforce the rulings?[/quote]

It would wind up being the United States military and we would have to pay for it all.
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Rawedge Rim wrote:
Avatar wrote:Eh, I wouldn't be opposed to it really. If it must crumble as a result, let it, although I don't think it would.

What they really need to do though is scrap the vetoes.
Who will enforce the rulings?
The rulings don't really get enforced anyway, do they? It's all pretty much effectively voluntary.

--A
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Post by Rawedge Rim »

Avatar wrote:
Rawedge Rim wrote:
Avatar wrote:Eh, I wouldn't be opposed to it really. If it must crumble as a result, let it, although I don't think it would.

What they really need to do though is scrap the vetoes.
Who will enforce the rulings?
The rulings don't really get enforced anyway, do they? It's all pretty much effectively voluntary.

--A
So what we have, and what we would have if the Veto was gone and the US said "Hasta la Vista" is essentially a body full of "Sturm and Drang, signifying nothing" :roll:
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The reason it signifies nothing (which it pretty much does anyway, regardless of US involvement and the veto) is because nobody is willing to actually cede the UN any authority. Sovereignty is far more important to politicians than global co-operation etc.

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Israel to help Christians share 'holy fire' amid outbreak
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A worker disinfects the doors of the closed Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City, as general public movements are limited to prevent the spread of coronavirus, Monday, March 30, 2020. (Credit: Mahmoud Illean/AP)


JERUSALEM -- Israel is working with foreign governments and Orthodox Christian leaders in the Holy Land to make sure that one of their most ancient and mysterious rituals -- the Holy Fire ceremony -- is not extinguished by the coronavirus outbreak, officials said Friday.

Each year, thousands of worshippers flock to Jerusalem's Old City and pack into the Church of the Holy Sepulcher -- built on the site where Christian tradition holds that Jesus was crucified, buried and resurrected -- for the pre-Easter ceremony.

Top Eastern Orthodox clerics enter the Edicule, the small chamber marking the site of Jesus' tomb, and exit with candles said to be miraculously lit with "holy fire" as a message to the faithful. The flame is normally shared with candle-holding pilgrims and even sent in special containers to Orthodox Christian communities around the world.

Details of the flame's source are a closely guarded secret.

Due to a ban on large public gatherings this year because of the virus pandemic, Israeli officials say the April 18 ceremony will be limited to about 10 religious leaders from various Orthodox denominations. They have also developed a creative way to deliver the flame to overseas communities.

Because anyone entering Israel must go into quarantine, foreign dignitaries coming to pick up the flame will receive it on their plane and immediately return home.

[...]

Akiva Tor, who heads the Israeli Foreign Ministry's department for world religions, said the arrangement has been discussed with local church leaders and coordinated with several foreign countries with large Orthodox populations, including Greece, Russia, Georgia and Ukraine.

Tor said church officials have been understanding. "We have the same goal in mind, which is to enable the continuation of this miraculous event while being respectful of the medical emergency which is taking place," he said.


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Post by Mighara Sovmadhi »

Personally, I can imagine few things being more indicative of the US government as the Antichrist regime (if we go to futurism prophecy-land) than this "Jerusalem is the capital" thing. This sounds so much like the theoretical treaty-with-Israel that I almost died of laughter on the inside to think about it (when it first happened).
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I see the Church of the Holy Sepulchre has been closed for the first time since the Black Death in 1347.

Amusingly, to prevent factional disputes over control of the church, the keys have been held by a Muslim family since 1100 AD. :D

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US to recognise annexation of occupied West Bank, Jordan Valley
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The US administration's Middle East plan would let Israel illegally annex Jewish settlements in the West Bank. [File: Lior Mizrahi/Getty Images]


US to recognise annexation of occupied West Bank, Jordan Valley


The United States said it was ready to recognise Israel's annexation of much of the occupied West Bank, but asked the new unity government also to negotiate with the Palestinians.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has reached a power-sharing deal to remain in office after three inconclusive elections, has vowed to press ahead with annexations that the Palestinians say will shut the door on a two-state solution.

A Middle East "vision" unveiled in January by US President Donald Trump gave a green light to annexations. Netanyahu's coalition deal with centrist Benny Gantz agreed the cabinet would consult Washington before moving forward.

But Palestinians have expressed outrage at Israel's plans to cement its hold further on land it seized in the 1967 war, territory they are seeking for a future state. The European Union has also criticised Trump's plan as failing to achieve a two-state solution.

"As we have made consistently clear, we are prepared to recognise Israeli actions to extend Israeli sovereignty and the application of Israeli law to areas of the West Bank that the vision foresees as being part of the State of Israel," a US State Department spokesperson said on Monday.

The step would be "in the context of the Government of Israel agreeing to negotiate with the Palestinians along the lines set forth in President Trump's Vision," she said.

The statement came after Netanyahu said on Monday he was confident the US would give Israel the approval within two months to move ahead with the de facto annexation of parts of the occupied West Bank.

[...]


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Holy Land: Heads of Churches voice concern about Israel's planned annexation of West Bank land
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Photo: ©lpj.org

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A Statement by the Patriarchs and Heads of the Holy Land Churches on Israeli Unilateral Annexation Plans

(May 7, 2020)

As a result of the stagnation of the Peace Process in the Middle East between the Israelis and Palestinians, an array of plans for Israel to unilaterally annex West Bank land, backed mainly by right-wing factions, raises serious and catastrophic questions about the feasibility of any peaceful agreement to end the decades' long conflict, one that continues to cost many innocent lives as part of a vicious cycle of human tragedy and injustice.

The Council of Patriarchs and Heads of the Holy Land Churches views such unilateral annexation plans with the utmost concern and calls upon the State of Israel to refrain from such unilateral moves, which would bring about the loss of any remaining hope for the success of the peace process.

The Council also calls upon the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the European Union, and the United Nations to respond to these unilateral annexation plans with a time-delimited and phased Peace Initiative in line with International Law and United Nations resolutions on the matter, in order to guarantee a comprehensive, just, and long-lasting peace in this part of the world that is considered Holy by the three Abrahamic Faiths.

We also call upon the Palestinian Liberation Organization, as the sole legitimate Representative of the Palestinian people, to resolve its internal disputes -- as well as any conflicts with other factions that are not under its umbrella -- in order to present a unified front dedicated to achieving peace and the building of a viable State that is founded upon pluralism and democratic values.

+Patriarch Theophilos III, Greek Orthodox Patriarchate

+Patriarch Nourhan Manougian, Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Patriarchate

+Archbishop Pierbattista Pizzaballa, Apostolic Administrator, Latin Patriarchate

+Fr. Francesco Patton, ofm, Custos of the Holy Land

+Archbishop Anba Antonious, Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate, Jerusalem

+Vicar General Father Gabriel Daho, Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate

+Archbishop Aba Embakob, Ethiopian Orthodox Patriarchate

+Archbishop Yaser AL-Ayash, Greek-Melkite-Catholic Patriarchate

+Archbishop Mosa El-Hage, Maronite Patriarchal Exarchate

+Archbishop Suheil Dawani, Episcopal Church of Jerusalem and the Middle East

+Bishop Ibrahim Sani Azar, Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land

+Father Ephram Samaan, Syrian Catholic Patriarchal Exarchate

+Rt Rev. Joseph Nersès Zabarian, Armenian Catholic Patriarchal Exarchate


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Blah blah blah. There will be no peace plan that is acceptable by both parties. Ever. We are not so far away from this being a century of peace plans that no one could agree to. None have been perfect, some have been better than others.

Sadly, as it is with human nature, peace will be had when one side obliterates the other or annexes them 100%
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Hashi Lebwohl
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

The last analysis I heard on the scenario went as follows:

Israel accepts every peace plan, including ones where it hardly gains anything, because they just want peace

the Palestinians reject every peace plan, including ones where they get all the benefits, because no peace plan ever gives them everything they want

It is clear to see which side is the problem.
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Israel does not accept every peace plan. They support every peace plan which they propose, and at the same time usually include conditions in it that they know will not be accepted.

Simple fact is that there are many people on both sides who benefit from not having a peace plan.

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Post by Kizza »

Isreal moves into the West Bank and declares "Peace"!
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Avatar wrote:Israel does not accept every peace plan. They support every peace plan which they propose, and at the same time usually include conditions in it that they know will not be accepted.
Not just Israel. Both sides do this. Typically anything that does not also include reverting to the lines of June 1967 are DOA to the Palestinians.

Oslo came close. Both had agreement and had presented that agreement to the world, But splinter groups in Palestine rejected it and launched suicide bombers and missiles into Israel. That gave the splinter groups in Israel all the incentive needed to for that to fall apart.
Avatar wrote: Simple fact is that there are many people on both sides who benefit from not having a peace plan.

--A
I agree. But its not just that. Neither side seems willing for the other side to exist. Israel will eventually annex all of it, one settlement at the time.
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