Beware the decline of Christianity

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New poll shows anti-Christian persecution a 'very severe' global concern
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Men walk in rubble Nov. 13 near St. Mary's Catholic Church and St. Elias Orthodox Church after a bombing in Damascus, Syria. Christians in the Middle East face extinction because of genocide, wars and international indifference to their plight, said speakers at a Dec. 5 panel discussion in New York. (Credit: CNS)


NEW YORK -- According to a new poll, an increasing number of Catholics believe anti-Christian persecution is a "very severe" global concern.

Results from an annual survey conducted by the papal charity Aid to the Church in Need USA released this week reveal that 46 percent of U.S. Catholics believe the issue to be a severe concern, up from only 30 percent last year. The survey also found that 58 percent of Catholics identify as "very concerned" about the plight of Christians around the globe, also up from 41 percent last year.

Yet despite the general increase in awareness and concern, the same data reveal that most U.S. Catholics believe that attention to the issue is lacking on both the local level and national levels of the U.S. Church.

Of the 1,000 respondents surveyed by McLaughlin & Associates, only 19 percent believe that their local parish is "very involved" on the issue, a drop of 18 percent from last year's data. Another 22 percent said they were "unsure" as to the Church's involvement.

On the other end of the spectrum, only 24 percent of respondents believe that their bishop is "very engaged" on the topic, down 8 percent from last year. Another 14 percent said that their bishop is "not engaged at all."

Meanwhile, Pope Francis received high marks for his involvement, with a majority (51 percent) of respondents saying they believe he is "very engaged" with the issue, while only 14 percent said they were "unsure" of the pope's involvement.

Coincidently, the pope's selected prayer intention for the month of March this year is dedicated to new Christian martyrs.

"It might be hard for us to believe, but there are more martyrs today than in the first centuries," Francis observed in the March edition of "The Pope Video."

[...]


Pope's March intention: pray for persecuted Christians [YouTube: 1 min]
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Post by Skyweir »

Seriously? That is concerning.. so in what form or forms does anti Christian movement take?

Is it ridicule?

The pope mentioned martyrdom.. are many Christians losing their lives as a result of anti Christian action?

Quite honestly find it rather odd .. I know that Utah is one of the HIGHEST States with LGBT youth suicide. Thats a whole lot of hate there.. but hardly anti Christian hate.
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Skyweir wrote:Seriously? That is concerning.. so in what form or forms does anti Christian movement take?

Is it ridicule?

The pope mentioned martyrdom.. are many Christians losing their lives as a result of anti Christian action?

Quite honestly find it rather odd .. I know that Utah is one of the HIGHEST States with LGBT youth suicide. Thats a whole lot of hate there.. but hardly anti Christian hate.
https://www.newsweek.com/christian-pers ... ver-770462
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaoch ... 3f6245e30f
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Wow I would not have imagined the degree of the issue. Its mostly Middle Eastern and Asian countries where Christianity is a minority group ... and yes that has long been a problem.

The backlash that occurs in western nations is disappointing.
The report examined the plight of Christians in China, Egypt, Eritrea, India, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Turkey over the period lasting from 2015 until 2017. The research showed that in that time, Christians suffered crimes against humanity, and some were hanged or crucified
Pretty atrocious.
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Last Word: Christian Iran
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Ancient History, Ever New


On a dimly lit side street in central Tehran, a bright yellow light shines above a wooden door. Step inside and you might imagine you had left the Islamic Republic. An unveiled woman greets guests and leads them to a spacious dining room, where other women have hung their veils and monteaux at the door. It is early summer, so sleeveless tops reveal bare arms and shoulders. When one patron produces a bottle of Scotch, a waiter brings him a tumbler with ice.

This is one of Tehran's three Armenian clubs - informal "Islamic-free zones" where Armenian Christians can socialize without the constraints of Islamic law. There are other kinds of Christians in Iran - Assyrians and Chaldeans, Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox - but Armenians are the most numerous. It is estimated that there are three hundred thousand of them in Iran. They are allocated five seats in the religious-minorities section of parliament, freely attend services in the six hundred Armenian churches throughout the country, hold observer status on the powerful Guardian Council, and operate their own schools so that their children can be taught in the Armenian language.

Christianity has a long history in Iran. The Acts of the Apostles tell us that Parthians, Persians, and Medes converted to Christianity at Pentecost, and the Parthian kings allowed the new religion to spread throughout the empire. Christians fleeing Roman persecution found a safe haven there. But for the next fifteen hundred years the fortunes of Persian Christians were subject to the political conflicts that swept across Asia. The fourth-century Zoroastrian ruler Shapour II initially allowed religious freedom but then cracked down on both Christians and Jews. In the early centuries of Islamic rule, Christians enjoyed the status of a protected minority, but the Crusades revived old religious tensions. The early Mongol rulers converted to Christianity after they invaded in the thirteenth century, but when later rulers opted for Islam, Christians were again persecuted.

[...]

The main attraction is the cathedral itself, where the beauty of the Armenian religious tradition is revealed in all its glory. At the top of the central dome the creation story is painted in patterns of blue and gold. Winged cherubs, a traditional Armenian motif, decorate the stone columns, and traditional Persian imagery appears in the floral patterns that adorn the entrance ceiling.

The cathedral isn't the only church in Julfa. Knock on the wooden door of the Church of St. Mary and a caretaker will open it to admit visitors to the inner courtyard. Built by a wealthy silk merchant in the seventeenth century, St. Mary's was later expanded to accommodate overflow crowds. Then there is the Church of Bethlehem, where the life of Jesus is portrayed in seventy-two wall paintings. The crosses of both churches rise above their central domes to share the skyline with the local minarets.

Many Westerners think of Iran as a theocratic monolith. They would no doubt be surprised to discover Christians of various kinds living there comfortably. Some of these Christian communities are ancient; some arrived more recently, seeking asylum. But even the newcomers now regard Iran as their home. They think of the Shiite majority not as their hosts, but as neighbors with whom they have much in common. For example, Muslim and Christian Iranians are united in their enthusiasm for the recent nuclear deal, which will release their country from stifling economic sanctions. In an interview with the Fides News Agency, Hormoz Aslani Babroudi, director of the Pontifical Missionary Society of Iran, offered his endorsement of the agreement: "Christians, along with all the Iranian people, are rejoicing because their prayers were answered. From now on it will be easier for the world to have a positive view of Iran." He added, "We do not consider ourselves foreigners but Iranians, and we are proud of it."


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Confessions of a 'Weird Catholic' [In-Depth, Opinion]
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People pray during a Pontifical High Mass Feb. 15 at St. Vincent Ferrer Church in New York City. The liturgy preceded the third annual Lepanto Conference, a one-day event featuring speakers who discussed the history, beauty and sacredness of the traditional Latin Mass. (CNS/Gregory A. Shemitz)


A recent New York Times article on "Weird Christianity" undoubtedly left some Catholics perplexed as to why all these young people are flocking to Latin Mass. Critics fear elitist anti-modern tendencies. Could this step backward into a world of bells, incense and traditional pre-modern moral norms impede the progress made since medieval days?

While traditionalism can surely lead Catholics to retreat into the past and hide from the modern world, it can also serve as an impetus to engage more deeply with the wounds and needs of today's world. The focus on beauty and materiality should inspire us to go out into the world and encounter Christ in the flesh, in the margins, as Pope Francis says, and discover how liturgy and spirituality are connected to the needs of those around us.

My first attraction to Catholicism began when I took a required philosophy of human nature course as a freshman at Fordham University. My professor, who was in her early 80s, was the first person who took my questions about life's meaning and ultimate truth seriously -- and who spoke about these matters with such gladness and certainty. "You all exist for a purpose," she would say, "and it is your duty to find out why." I needed to know what was behind this woman's bold assertion.

[...]

As I started exploring Catholicism's different spiritualities and devotions, I quickly found myself enamored by the Latin Mass and traditional piety. I fell in love with its richness, which was slightly reminiscent of the byzantine liturgy I had grown up with.

I soon realized I wasn't the only millennial attending Latin Masses.

It's true that "Weird Christianity" draws in many privileged, (upper-)middle class, mostly white, millennials, who -- like me -- grew up sheltered from the hardships and injustices that plague our society. But this bourgeois suburban setting proved to be a breeding ground for existential emptiness.

[...]

Many people flinch when they hear about traditional liturgy and spirituality because they associate it with antiquated views of women, colonialism or anti-modernism. I acknowledge that much of pre-modern Catholicism is tangled up with ugly systems of oppression. But I've found that both traditional spirituality and morality have not only imbued my life with a more tangibly definitive meaning, they have also made me more sensitive to social injustice and the suffering of others.

The demanding moral teachings of Christianity, modeled on the kenotic love Christ demonstrated on the cross, have reshaped my outlook toward life from one of self-seeking comfort to self-sacrificial charity. The witness of people like Dorothy Day, who recognized the connection between traditional doctrine and liturgy, and proximity to those on the margins, speak volumes. Accused of being both a radical communist and a conservative prude, Dorothy believed that personal holiness -- bolstered by her readings of early church fathers and medieval mystics -- and fidelity to church teaching were crucial to creating a more just social order.

I am also inspired by more contemporary examples of people like Eve Tushnet who view chastity and celibacy not as obstacles to intimacy, but as entry ways into a deeper mode of living in relationship with others.

Citing the work of queer literary critic Frederick Roden in a 2009 article "Romoeroticism," Tushnet highlights the way that the liturgical, aesthetic and sexual ethos of medieval Catholicism drew in troves of gay Brits in the Victorian era "who responded strongly to Catholicism's physicality." She continues:
The incense smoke and flaking paint, the hint of cannibalism that recalled the Church to Her disrespectable origins, the kneeling, and the statues called to gay men and women. If you're persecuted for your reaction to gender and physicality, you may become intensely aware of bodily realities; and Catholicism, alone in the mainstream Western religious landscape, kept insisting that bodies were both important and bizarre. We alone kept saying that the flat white wafer in the priest's hands might shiver at any moment into raw and bleeding human flesh. We alone made Communion a horror story.
Tushnet's words resonate deeply with my own personal experience. Older forms of liturgy and spirituality tend to place greater emphasis on beauty, the body and the material realm as a whole. The bells and incense at Latin Mass, the gory, baroque Spanish crucifixes, and eucharistic processions have made tangible the abstract ideals we believe in in a way that the felt banners and David Haas hymns in my dad's parish never did for me.


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Archbishop Michel Aupetit of Paris uses a censer as he celebrates the annual chrism Mass at historic St. Sulpice Church April 17, 2019, in the wake of the massive fire that seriously damaged the historic Notre Dame Cathedral. (CNS/Paul Haring)


[...]

This brand of spirituality that highly values the physical has allowed me to discern Christ's face keenly in the suffering of others. These experiences have made me want to understand the experiences of those who face social injustices. They've forced me to question my own privilege and the extent to which my lifestyle contributes to the suffering of others.

Yes, traditional spirituality can lead us into the temptation of making an idol out of the past and hiding from the secular world. Instead, I would urge "trads" to rely on Francis' image of the church as a field hospital and enter into the world with our alternative vision. Let's consider what a great gift we have in the "weird" expressions of our faith -- a gift our weird and wounded world is desperately in need of.


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Cardinal likens fading Christian presence in Middle East to a sinking ship
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Lebanese Cardinal Bechara Rai, patriarch of the Maronite Catholic Church, is pictured in a 2017 file photo speaking at the In Defense of Christians Summit in Washington. He described the shrinking presence of Christians in the Middle East as a sinking ship to leaders of the Middle East Council of Churches Sept. 18, 2020. (Credit: Jaclyn Lippelmann/Catholic Standard via CNS.)


BEIRUT — Lebanese Cardinal Bechara Rai warned that the Christian presence in the Middle East is shrinking and church leaders “are called to face the winds that blow in our homelands.”

The assessment by the patriarch of Maronite Catholics during a meeting of the Middle East Council of Churches executive committee Sept. 18 underscored the dire reality facing Christians in the tumultuous region.

“The ship threatened by strong winds and waves” that is sinking symbolizes “the witnessing church in the sea of our Middle Eastern countries troubled by the winds of conflicts and wars, political, economic, financial and livelihood crises, and the corona epidemic,” Rai said.

The cardinal also explained at the meeting he hosted at Bkerke, the Maronite patriarchate north of Beirut, that the threat “reached its climax” in Lebanon with the catastrophic double explosion in the port of Beirut Aug. 4. The disaster left nearly 200 people dead, injured another 6,000, and displaced more than 300,000 people.

He stressed that the MECC is called in such turbulent time to work with churches and their leaders, institutions and the faithful “to face the waves and winds that ravage their homelands … with stances of faith and hope.”

“We ask you, Lord, through the intercession of our Mother Virgin Mary, the star of the sea in the storm, to lead our homelands, our churches and our people to the port of safety,” Rai pleaded.

The MECC in its final statement reiterated its appeal for an end to “the destructive wars and conflicts in the Middle East, to protect human dignity, and build peace on the basis of justice and rights.”

Meeting participants expressed their “deep solidarity” with the Lebanese in the “catastrophic tragedy” they are suffering from the Beirut explosions. They called for continued “ecumenical ecclesiastical efforts with all local, regional and international partners to lift the material and psychological repercussions of this tragedy.”

They also expressed their solidarity with all those affected by the coronavirus pandemic, especially people who have lost loved ones, offered appreciation to medical and humanitarian aid teams, and assured their continued prayers for an end to the pandemic.

[…]


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Post by Skyweir »

Christianity will always and has always struggled for survival in the middle east.
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California’s St. Peter’s Chaldean Catholic Cathedral Vandalized by Confusing Mix of Graffiti [Video]
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Parishioners with power washers and paint rollers worked all afternoon on Sept. 26 at Saint Peter’s Chaldean Cathedral in El Cajon, CA — covering and cleaning a confusing mix of graffiti.

Father Daniel Shaba shared video of swastikas, white power slogans, pentagrams, Black Lives Matter and Biden 2020 — all mixed together on the walls and ground.

‘It was very confusing when I saw the graffiti because it had things that didn’t have to do much with each other,� said Father Shaba.

[…]

“It’s very devastating. We’re a very small minority, Chaldean community. We fled persecution in Iraq and here we are facing it again, in a place where we thought we wouldn’t,� he said.

Word spread fast, and the response from the community came faster.

“I’m very proud of them, because we had an enormous amount of parishioners come and want to help out, see how they could help us in any way shape of form. But to also hold tight to Jesus,� Father Shabba told Currents News.

Father Shaba says the church has surveillance footage of the crime which they’ve shared with law enforcement.

They will seek justice. But they also have a message for the vandals.

“I would say to the people who did this, we will pray for you. We will pray for your conversion and repent,� said Father Shaba.


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In new Catholic numbers, an ‘imponderable’ movement shaping history [News Analysis]
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Members of the isolated and impoverished Turkana people gather for Mass under an acacia tree on Dec. 8, 2017, in the Diocese of Lodwar in northern Kenya. (Credit: Crux/Andrew Gitau)


ROME — An old saying has it that “journalism is the first draft of history.� Frankly, I’ve always been a bit dubious about that claim. In my experience, and to paraphrase John Lennon, history often seems to be what happens while journalists are talking about other things.

Here’s a quote from historian Arnold J. Toynbee in his book Civilization on Trial which I try to take to heart.
The things that make good headlines are on the surface of the stream of life, and they distract us from the slower, impalpable, imponderable movements that work below the surface and penetrate to the depths. But it is really these deeper, slower movements that make history, and it is they that stand out huge in retrospect, when the sensational passing events have dwindled, in perspective, to their true proportions.
In the spirit, let’s focus here not on a sensational passing event, but let’s try to prove Toynbee wrong by pondering one of those slow, deep movements he called “imponderable.�

On Friday, the Vatican published the latest edition of the Annuario Pontificio, a big thick red volume that’s a combination between a statistical yearbook and a personal directory, as well as the Annuarium Statisticum Ecclesiae. Among other things, these books record changes in Catholic population over the past year, which allows observers to track demographic movements in the church over time.

Taking a look at the new set of numbers is instructive.

For one thing, the Annuario notes that Catholicism added 16 million new members in 2020, the latest year for which statistics are available. Granted, that meant the church did no more than keep pace with overall global population growth, but it’s still significant at a time when most western perceptions are that the church is shrinking due to the fallout from the sexual abuse crisis, various scandals at senior levels, bitter political infighting, increasing irrelevance to younger generations, and any number of other alleged failures.

For sure, if you live in western Europe or in some parts of the United States, where parishes are closing or consolidating and Mass attendance seems in free fall, those perceptions are understandable. Yet the reality is that on a global level, Catholicism enjoyed the greatest expansion in its history over the past century, more than tripling from 267 million in 1900 to 1.045 billion in 2000 and 1.36 billion today.

Consider that 16 million is more than the entire Catholic population of Canada, and the church added that number of new followers in one year alone, Today, Catholics represent a robust 17.7 percent of everyone on earth.

In other words, the dominant Catholic story today is not decline, it’s breakneck growth.

Second, it’s notable that the vast majority of this growth is outside the western sphere. The Catholic population grew in Africa and Asia in 2020, by 2.1 percent and 1.8 percent respectively. The share of the world’s Catholics who live in Africa has been climbing steadily over recent decades. Africa alone shot up from 1.9 million in 1900 to 130 million in 2000 and an estimated 236 million today, representing almost twenty percent of the global total.

Catholicism, in other words, is already a non-western religion, at least at the grassroots, and it will be increasingly more so as time wears on. By the middle of this century, three-quarters of every Catholic man, woman and child will live outside the west. Trying to understand the church exclusively through the prism of western preoccupations and priorities, therefore, is a fool’s errand, yet it continues to be how most of us in the press cover the church.

Third, the data also reveal a serious mismatch in how Catholic personnel are allocated around the world, one that’s been clear for years but continues to grow steadily worse, either by conscious choice at the leadership level or a simple lack of imagination about how to fix it.

In 2020, there were 410,219 Catholic priests in the world, with 40 percent living in Europe and just about 13 percent in North America and Australia/New Zealand, meaning that over half the world’s priests live and minister in the west at a time when more than two-thirds of its population is someplace else.

This is not, by the way, because the west is brimming with new vocations to the priesthood. Like everything else, the new vocations and seminarians these days come disproportionately from Africa and Asia, who now provide 60 percent of all seminarians worldwide.

If the church in the US tomorrow had to kick out all the Mexican, Colombian, Vietnamese, Korean, Filipino, Nigerian, Ugandan, and Congolese priests serving in American dioceses, not to mention all the religious women from those places, it might as well put a “going out of business� sign on the front door of almost every diocesan cathedral in the country.

[…]

Auguste Comte, one of the fathers of modern sociology, famously said that “demography is destiny.� What the demographic data seems to suggest right now is that the Catholic Church has much to celebrate, but also an urgent need to get its act together to ensure a more deeply global perspective and a fairer distribution of personnel.

Otherwise, the church risks finding that its destiny is one for which it’s woefully unprepared.


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Michael Wear, a former Obama faith adviser, launches the Center for Christianity and Public Life [Video]
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(Source: The Center for Christianity & Public Life)


Here is Jon Ward of Yahoo news:
At 34 years old, Michael Wear has already been a faith adviser to an American president, written two books and developed a reputation as a thoughtful and connected leader in American politics and religion.

Wear is now launching an institution that will train Christians in public life to reject culture-war fights and to emphasize the public service aspect of politics.

Most Christian political organizations argue for politicians to take a position on a few issues of particular concern. Wear’s new group, the Center for Christianity & Public Life (CCPL), will argue that leaders in politics and elsewhere should emphasize personal character and service to the least fortunate.

“For far too long the ‘right’ Christian politics has meant you hold the right position on a narrow set of issues. And you could be the worst kind of person, but as long as you had that position you could be advancing a Christian politics,� Wear said in an interview with Yahoo News. “We think that has failed the country.�



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Michael Wear. | Source: michaelwear.com


CCPL is launching Monday [Oct 24], having raised an initial round of $1 million, with hopes of increasing that figure to $6 million for the next three years.

While Wear wants his organization to engage in political debates over issues, the centerpiece of the organization’s first year will be a fellowship program for a dozen individuals who are already civic sector leaders but are looking to apply their Christian faith more deeply to the way they live their lives, professionally and personally.

“We anticipate that participants in this program will range from postgrads to CEOs, and include individuals from various generational, racial and ethnic backgrounds,� Wear said.

The fellowship will focus on “spiritual formation,� he said, helping the leaders think more deeply about their faith and integrate it into every aspect of their lives more fully.

“Faithfulness is either for all of life, including politics, or it just doesn’t make sense to people anymore. And it shouldn’t,� Wear said. “The answer isn’t to try to muster up some new political platform that can be used to determine who’s in and who’s out. Again, that has been the problem.�

“How do we maintain integrity with our deepest values, carry those into politics with us, and remain integrated as people?� he said.
Read the rest here.

[…]


Introducing the Center for Christianity & Public Life [YouTube: 2 min]
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Post by Skyweir »

If that is so, it seems on the face of it, to be a supportable position. Kudos to Wear
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I am tempted to argue that it is not declining fast enough. ;)

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lol 😂 :LOL: patience grasshopper lol 😂

Enlightenment on a global scale is inevitably an individual experience ~ and that takes time.
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Wosbald wrote:
Wear is now launching an institution that will train Christians in public life to reject culture-war fights and to emphasize the public service aspect of politics.

Most Christian political organizations argue for politicians to take a position on a few issues of particular concern. Wear’s new group, the Center for Christianity & Public Life (CCPL), will argue that leaders in politics and elsewhere should emphasize personal character and service to the least fortunate.

“For far too long the ‘right’ Christian politics has meant you hold the right position on a narrow set of issues. And you could be the worst kind of person, but as long as you had that position you could be advancing a Christian politics,� Wear said in an interview with Yahoo News. “We think that has failed the country.�
In other words, it's a political group that uses religion to advance a political (Leftist) agenda--as Wos tirelessly did in the Tank, and is now doing here--rather than the other way around, i.e. voting on a few political issues in order to advance a religious agenda.

"Reject culture war fights" is just another way of telling Christians to stop fighting against issues like abortion, gay marriage, radical trans agenda, sexualizing children at school. You know, conservative issues.

Instead, "emphasize public service" and "service to the least fortunate" are another way of saying, "government entitlements, nanny state policies, social/racial justice." You know, liberal issues.

And it's insinuating that being a good person, i.e. "emphasizing personal character," is adopting the political opinion that government should be involved in "service to the least fortunate," which is why those two phrases are joined in the same sentence above.

While I don't necessarily endorse either strategy--using politics to advance religion or using religion to advance politics--at least the former (conservative) strategy is honest. Having moral beliefs and voting your conscience is simply being authentic. On the other hand, having a political goal that you guilt trip gullible religious people into believing so that your party can have more power is just sinister. Whether or not a person has good character shouldn't depend upon their view of helping the poor. Believing it should be done through charities rather than inefficient government mandates that simply create more dependency and poverty are two different pragmatic views, not two different moral/religious choices. The answer isn't decided by which one is right, but which one is more effective.

"Separation of church and state" is only important when the other guys' political party is the beneficiary of their union. If you can rebrand religion to benefit your own party, then who cares about separation? Bring on the union of Christianity and Public Life!

Sky, advocating that government solve our problems (as Wos and his article is doing) isn't "enlightenment." But at least you're using language that tentatively keeps this in the realm of The Close, if you squint hard enough.
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Post by Fist and Faith »

Not sure how I missed Wos' Wear post. I may have hit "Mark all forums read" without having noticed there was a new post. Things haven't been so busy in here that it's reasonable for me to have missed it, but it's my only guess.

Yes, it's clearly a political post. It could have been about:
The fellowship will focus on “spiritual formation,� he said, helping the leaders think more deeply about their faith and integrate it into every aspect of their lives more fully.

I don't know why anyone of any faith would not try to integrate it into every aspect of their lives more fully. Whether you are in retail, politics, or a taxi driver, I would think you would try to live your life the way your faith tells you you should live your life. Why would you adhere to that faith if you did not think it was the right way? And, sure, while discussing the idea of your faith being reflected in all aspects of your life, how a political figure might do things, and how someone might vote, could easily come up. But they would not be the point of the conversation.

But politics is the clearly the intended point of the Wear post. If I was awake, I would have deleted it. We're not turning the Close into a political forum. Since I didn't, Z's opposing viewpoint is only fair.

And now we're done. Z has the last word.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
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Wosbald
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Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Fist and Faith wrote:[…]

I don't know why anyone of any faith would not try to integrate it into every aspect of their lives more fully. Whether you are in retail, politics, or a taxi driver, I would think you would try to live your life the way your faith tells you you should live your life. Why would you adhere to that faith if you did not think it was the right way? And, sure, while discussing the idea of your faith being reflected in all aspects of your life, how a political figure might do things, and how someone might vote, could easily come up. But they would not be the point of the conversation.

[…]
What about the "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers" thing?

To wit …
Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'
But by the metric you're apparently advancing, the Righteous' actions would not be simpatico with Faith/Religion/Christianity, since they didn't even think of "spiritual formation", didn't stop in order to first form some sort of specifically "religious motivation", before they acted. And note that the King/Christ does not reply to them, "Thanx for reminding me … indeed, you didn't think Biblical, cloudy, Jesusy, Precious-Momenty kinds-of-thoughts before you addressed that injustice, so you're right. Sucks to be you."

IOW, their faith-commitments were so integrated into their identity that they didn't have any need to "bridge the yawning gulf twixt the Two Worlds of religion and politics" before they could put their faith into action.


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Post by Fist and Faith »

Can't now. I'll read your post later.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
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Wosbald
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Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Fist and Faith wrote:Can't now. I'll read your post later.
Take yer time, bro.


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Post by Fist and Faith »

I don't have any idea why you think I'm saying that. I'm saying no one should say, "I shouldn't let my faith influence my decisions when we're talking about ____." It doesn't matter what you fill in the blank with.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
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