What will it take to change attitudes towards abortion?

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Skyweir
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Post by Skyweir »

Me ,,, but I would expect the same of men .. fairs fair

And a far greater efficiency ;)
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TheFallen wrote:I've already solved this one.

All we need is the Acme (TM) "No Swimmers" male contraceptive - and/or the Acme (TM) "ContraEgg" female equivalent - added to the mains water supply. Effects of both are permanent unless and until a counter-agent is deliberately sought out and ingested by whoever wants to either father or mother children.
Yeah I'm good with that...I usually suggest reversible sterilisation at puberty, followed by a test to qualify to get it reversed.

Absent side-effects your idea is easier. Mine could happen right now though without developing a better contraceptive. :D

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Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+

AOC could do more for women by opposing abortion [In-Depth, Opinion]
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Pro-life activists gather outside the U.S. Supreme Court in Washington June 29. (CNS/Reuters/Carlos Barria)


Editors' note: Last week, NCR executive editor Heidi Schlumpf opined that "AOC is the future of the Catholic Church." That column did not address U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's position on abortion, so we invited EWTN's "Morning Glory" radio host Gloria Purvis to do so.

========================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

Two weeks ago, I watched as U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, a Catholic, took to the House floor to give an account of how fellow Congressman Ted Yoho, also Catholic, verbally abused her.

He failed to exercise self-mastery in the face of her ideas, which he called "dangerous." So he spoke to her and about her in a way that is contrary to their shared faith, our shared faith. He spewed hateful vulgarities and demeaned her person.

I related to Ocasio-Cortez's experience, as I have had otherwise good Catholic men verbally abuse me for my ideas while others, like Rep. Roger Williams in the case of the altercation with Yoho, stood by silently.

Although my ideas on race and the human person align with church teaching, they fell short of some Catholic men's approval, and so they shouted, howled and insulted me for my "extreme" ideas and for what they perceived as not being winsome in delivery. How could any good man, much less a serious Catholic man, behave this way?

I agree with Ocasio-Cortez that there is a "culture of impunity, of accepting violence and violent language against women ... an entire structure of power that supports [it]." I say this from not only personal experience and seeing how other women are likewise treated for their opinions, but also because of the way women's minds and bodies are treated in our culture -- a culture that can infect even the best of our Catholic men in their weakest moments.


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Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-New York (Flickr/NRKbeta/Ståle Grut)


While Ocasio-Cortez is not responsible for Yoho's heinous words or Williams' cowardly silence, she, in my opinion, supports policies that underpin a culture of violence against women. In her piece on criminal justice reform, she reminds the reader to "not forget the guiding principle of 'the least among us' found in Matthew." With that guiding principle, I encourage her to rethink the praxis of reproductive rights.

In May 2019, Ocasio-Cortez tweeted, "When women are in control of their sexuality, it threatens a core element underpinning right-wing ideology: patriarchy. It's a brutal form of oppression to seize control of the 1 essential thing a person should command: their own body."

The feminist critique of patriarchy says it is a destructive human relationship based on domination and coercion and therefore is absent of love. That critique also says that in healthy human relationships everyone has rights, everyone's needs must be respected, and no one should fear subordination or abuse. If Ocasio-Cortez agrees with this critique, I implore her to extend that healthy human relationship to include our unborn daughters, the least among us.

If Ocasio-Cortez is to be the future of the Catholic Church, as a previous NCR opinion piece asserts, she must broaden her vision of life issues. It must be a vision that encompasses true love and liberation for all members of the human family, especially the unborn.

Ocasio-Cortez championed a Green New Deal for the good of the environment. But Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI rightly asked, "How can we separate, or even set at odds, the protection of the environment and the protection of human life, including the life of the unborn?"

In "Laudato Si', on Care for Our Common Home," Pope Francis additionally notes, "Since everything is interrelated, concern for the protection of nature is also incompatible with the justification of abortion. How can we genuinely teach the importance of concern for other vulnerable beings, however troublesome or inconvenient they may be, if we fail to protect a human embryo, even when its presence is uncomfortable and creates difficulties?"

Ocasio-Cortez needs to examine, in light of her faith, what it means to be in control of our sexuality and our bodies. Who benefits when we terminate the lives of our daughters in our wombs? How does choosing this control over the bodies of our unborn daughters undo patriarchy?

[...]

I invite Ocasio-Cortez to consider a new vision of reproductive rights from the lens of our shared Catholic faith. We as women have a right to become pregnant naturally, as is unique to us as females. We have a right to be pregnant, give birth, and mother our daughters without penalty from our schools, our employers, our government -- our society. We have a right to fathers helping us rear our children, and the child has a right to both her mother and father together.

In fact, our society should make way for this uniquely female experience of pregnancy and motherhood and encourage healthy family bonds needed to change the culture for human flourishing. If Ocasio-Cortez can champion a complete overhaul of American society in search of economic, social and racial justice and the Green New Deal, she can certainly champion a new vision for reproductive rights.

That new vision could include rights that encourage and enable women's full participation in education, business and industry. Rights that change our vision of work so that accommodating working women and mothers is not a concession but an essential aspect of a successful business. Rights that ensure workers receive just wages to support a family. Rights that protect future women and men in the womb. Rights that provide authentic women's health care, including prenatal health care, maternal health and post-menopausal care. Rights that bind the father to the mother and to his daughter, including unborn daughters. Rights that create a society where its structure protects women and the culture would not brook our abuse, verbal or otherwise.


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Post by Skyweir »

Avatar wrote:
TheFallen wrote:I've already solved this one.

All we need is the Acme (TM) "No Swimmers" male contraceptive - and/or the Acme (TM) "ContraEgg" female equivalent - added to the mains water supply. Effects of both are permanent unless and until a counter-agent is deliberately sought out and ingested by whoever wants to either father or mother children.
Yeah I'm good with that...I usually suggest reversible sterilisation at puberty, followed by a test to qualify to get it reversed.

Absent side-effects your idea is easier. Mine could happen right now though without developing a better contraceptive. :D

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Between the two of you .. we got this sorted.

Now to get takers ;)
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Post by SoulBiter »

Funny enough, if we did that, the earth would depopulate pretty fast. Its a well known saying that if you "wait until you can afford kids" , most people would never have kids.
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Post by TheFallen »

Another benefit... Malthus would be delighted :twisted:
Newsflash: the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron" :roll:

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Post by Avatar »

Haha, was gonna ask what the problem was? :D

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Post by Skyweir »

TheFallen wrote:Another benefit... Malthus would be delighted :twisted:
I also see no downside here.
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Post by Skyweir »

Though I also see no evil in a reduction in overall global population.

However reason suggests that in all likelihood the impact would be minimal.

The first step is getting male birth control accepted and used. ;)

And of course supporting that with equivalent female birth control ;)
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Post by sgt.null »

More dead humans is a good thing?
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Post by Skyweir »

Birth control measures are proposed to circumnavigate the deaths you oppose Null


.. but Im convinced you know that
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Post by sgt.null »

I'm for birth control. I am against using murder as birth control.
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Post by Skyweir »

Oh my giddy aunt .. its birth control .. right? To prevent pregnancies .. thats what you want.

No need for abortions if there is no risk of pregnancy? No risk of conception? Right?

Thats a pro life WIN.

Isn't it?
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Post by sgt.null »

Population control is not the same as individual birth control. You are smart enough to know the difference.
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Post by Skyweir »

As are you?

And I fail to see the issue.

Do you have a different option/preference?

Lets not over focus on the broader picture of population control .. as of course birth control is one .. right? Whether its male sterilisation ;) or popping a pill, or a long acting shot, or an IUD type of device, or whatever it is.

What other controls do you prefer? Abstinence?
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Post by sgt.null »

population control is state run.

I prefer teaching responsibility. Offering birth control. And stop teaching people that abortion is anything but murder.
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Post by Skyweir »

Ok so you accept birth control.

The very thing that HAS been proposed.

Absolutely education is a big one.

Probably the most effective way forward which we now surely all appreciate is a suite of measures that marries birth controls with education.
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Post by sgt.null »

I've always been for birth control. I have never argued against it. Ever.
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Post by Avatar »

Haha, the GF said to me the other day, "seeing how many people are wearing their masks wrong, [she] understands how birth control fails so often."

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Post by sgt.null »

Levonorgestrel releasing implant, sold under the brand name Jadelle among others, are devices that release levonorgestrel for birth control. It is one of the most effective forms of birth control with a one-year failure rate around 0.05%. The device is placed under the skin and lasts for up to five years. It may be used by women who have a history of pelvic inflammatory disease and therefore cannot use an intrauterine device.  Following removal fertility quickly returns.

- Wikipedia
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