The Mueller Investigation

Archive From The 'Tank
Locked
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25192
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

The Mueller Investigation

Post by Skyweir »

So I thought we have mentioned the investigation in a number of threads but perhaps we need a dedicated thread to look at the issues that are of concern to both sides of the political spectrum, for good or ill.

Of course, Trumps incessant tweeting provides a clear picture of one side of the controversy. He claims fake news, allegations that Mueller interfered with the 2016 election, that there was NO collusion with Russia, that the investigation is one of the biggest political scandals in history, that Mueller should be looking at crooked Hilary, not hm, that the FBI is engaged in spying and subversive actions against him .. etc, etc..

And of course Trump has also recently attacked fellow republican, Trey Gowdy for daring to counter his claim of FBI spying in the White House... and who has been taking all manner of shit from his party proper for speaking out.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/ ... ory-617948

We also know that a Trump ally has accused Mueller of exceeding his authority with respect to charges against Manaforte, in an attempt to get those charges dropped.

We also know that a federal court judge summarily dismissed those claims and refused to dismiss the charges against Manaforte. For reference see the following link
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 53436.html


However, it is important to remember this is the focus and substance of the investigation...
Mueller's prosecutors allege the Russians attempted to subvert the Federal Election Commission, Justice's foreign agent requirements and State's visa process.
That is a valid concern for any sovereign state to hold.

The following is a BBC link that provides a pithy overview of where things are at .. and the major players .. or as Mueller would refer to them as .. key individuals of interest.
So there are known knowns ;) and a whole lot of speculation, fear mongering, radical reactionism on arguably both sides of political divide. But what needs to be born in mind, is that charges have been laid, some have been to court

This is another informative article covering the status of affairs .. 170518

And of course no one in Trumps legal team want him meeting with Mueller .. for what can only be stated as very obvious reasons

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/ ... ena-619054

So there are new developments almost daily and a raft of less than pleasant accusations related to the Investigation and related to the subjects of the investigation.

We can make the attempt to keep across developments and try to make sense of them. Of course there will come a time when speculation is no longer needed. Till then .. we can attempt to sift through fact, theory, evidence and implications.
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Ur Dead
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 2295
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:17 am

Post by Ur Dead »

allegations that Mueller interfered with the 2016 election
That's a new one... Mueller would have to be investigating Russian involvement
before/during the election? As well as Congress setting up the investigation...
Now if you said Comey then yes I can see it. Comey as I see it was doomed from the start by both parties. What he did might have had impact.
Muellers investigation was started about 5 months after Trump took office.

FBI spying,CIA, IRS and the next door neighbor involvements might be true.
www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/0 ... -campaign/
https://truepundit.com/feds-drop-bombsh ... community/

Trey Gowdy is a respected member of Congress and Republican party.
He seems to want the correct answers for any allegations that came before him. What is surprising is that he will not seek re-election. He's leaving politics. He says there a time to stay and a time to go and he is going.
That can be a thread in it's own right but speculation is that he's is really
trying to be considered for the SCOTUS. Other wise.. make statement, get hammer and thrown under bus. Leave and Trump (in his infinite wisdom)
nominates him. Sail through the committees and both side of the aisle
vote him in. Republicans because he was one of them, Democrats thinking
Trump under the bus move would try him to be adverse to Trumps policies.

As far a Trumps accusing Mueller of exceeding his authority.. And body with a brain can see that Mueller is doing that. I mean he is going way out there.
It funny they caught one of trump lawyer trying to get into one of their meeting yet they suspectly single out 13 Russians in over a year. But in no way will these Russians will go to trial. They are hopping around like a scalded bunny and have not any real indictment.
They would be better of investigating John Podesta stupid move of opening
an email allowing hackers into the account. Thus exposing the Clinton's
manipulation of the Democratic party to shut out Bernie Sandors.

One thing I do agree is:
Trumps incessant tweeting
His tweets are so much that they have cause his ego to be bigger than his butt cheeks.
What's this silver looking ring doing on my finger?
User avatar
Wosbald
A Brainwashed Religious Flunkie
Posts: 6086
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:35 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Ur Dead wrote:[...]

... they have cause his ego to be bigger than his butt cheeks.
Image
​
​
Image
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

As I have noted before, the Mueller Investigation has been in existence for just over 1 year now and really hasn't produced much in the way of results: the criminal charges from it are listed here (check the "criminal charges" section...the url didn't paste correctly but you can ignore all those "outside US jurisdiction"--why even bother filing charges against people whom you will never detain or question?. Anyway, what we have is pretty thin:

George Papadopoulos, guilty on 1 count of "false statements"
Michael Flynn, guilty on 1 count of "false statements"
Alex van der Zwaan, guilty on 1 count of "false statements"
Richard Pinedo, guily on 1 count identity fraud
Rick Gates, guilty on 2 counts of "conspiracy against the United States" and "false statement"

note: "conspiracy against the United States" is a default, catch-all category which allows a prosecutor to convict a person of something when they cannot make any other charge stick. This was necessary because

Rick Gates, 5 counts of filing false tax returns, 4 counts failure to report foreign bank/financial accounts, 5 counts bank fraud conspiracy, and 4 counts bank fraud--all charges dropped (because 1) they couldn't make the charges stick and 2) Gates flipped on Trump)

There is 1 charge of "conspiracy to defraud the United States" against Concord Management and Consulting, LLC (it pleaded not guilty) and

Paul Manafort--5 counts: conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, and false statements...as well as...

23 counts: 5 counts assisting in the preparation of false tax returns, 5 coutns subscribing to false tax returns, filing a false amended return, 3 counts failure to report foreign bank and financial accounts, 5 counts bank fraud conspiracy, and 4 counts bank fraud. He has entered a plea of "not guilty" on all counts.

I have, in another thread, dropped my objection of "they should hurry up--if they have something they should charge people or stop investigating" in order to give this investigation at least as much time as Watergate had. I am still convinced that they aren't going to find any "smoking guns" and they aren't going to catch any big fish. In the end, we will look back on this investigation as a waste of time and money--although foreign agents typically do try to stick their fingers in the elections of other countries (we have done this plenty of times) there won't be sufficient evidence to prove that anyone colluded with Russia to determine the outcome of the 2016 Election.

If Trump haters want to prosecute evidence of collusion then they should look at how the Clinton Campaign colluded with the DNC to ensure that Hillary got nominated--their internal e-mail messages essentially confirm this, as do the actions of the DNC (rigging the debates to favor Clinton, keeping Sanders delegates from voicing an opinion, etc).
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25192
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

List of indictments to date.
The full list of known indictments and plea deals in Mueller's probe
1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, pleaded guilty in October to making false statements to the FBI.

2) Michael Flynn, Trump's former national security adviser, pleaded guilty in December to making false statements to the FBI.

3) Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign chair, was indicted in October in Washington, DC on charges of conspiracy, money laundering, and false statements - all related to his work for Ukrainian politicians before he joined the Trump campaign. He's pleaded not guilty on all counts. Then, in February, Mueller filed a new case against him in Virginia, with tax, financial, and bank fraud charges.

4) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort's longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February he agreed to a plea deal with Mueller's team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a "Russian troll farm," and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency's employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller.

22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine.

......................................................................................................
Papadopoulos: Back in April 2016, Papadopoulos got a tip from a foreign professor he understood to have Russian government connections that the Russians had "dirt" on Clinton in the form of "thousands of emails." He then proceeded to have extensive contacts with the professor and a Russian woman, during which he tried to plan a Trump campaign trip to Russia.

But when the FBI interviewed Papadopoulos about all this in January 2017, he repeatedly lied about what happened, he now admits. So he was arrested in July, and later agreed to plead guilty to a false statements charge and start cooperating with Mueller's probe.

............................................................................................................
Flynn: In December 2016, during the transition, Flynn spoke to Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak about sanctions that President Barack Obama had just placed on Russia, and about a planned United Nations Security Council vote condemning Israeli settlements.

But when FBI agents interviewed him about all this in January 2017, Flynn lied to them about what his talks with Kislyak entailed, he now admits. In December 2017, Flynn pleaded guilty to a false statements charge and began cooperating with Mueller's investigation.

Both Papadopoulos and Flynn may now be providing Mueller's team with information that could incriminate others in Trump's orbit. But we haven't seen the fruits of their cooperation just yet.

...........................................................................................................
Mueller's team indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies in connection with alleged interference with the 2016 campaign.

The specific charges Manafort is currently facing are:

5 counts in Washington, DC: One count each of conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to launder money, acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, making false and misleading Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) statements, and a false statements charge in connection with FARA.
18 counts in Virginia: 5 counts of filing false income tax returns, 4 counts of failing to report foreign bank and financial accounts, and 9 counts of bank fraud or bank conspiracy.

........................................................................................................
Finally, the probe into Manafort and Gates's Ukrainian work has ensnared one other person so far: Alex van der Zwaan.

Van der Zwaan was a lawyer for the London office of the New York law firm Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom. The son-in-law of a Russian oligarch, he worked with Manafort and Gates on behalf of Ukraine's government in 2012, to write a report defending the government's prosecution of a former prime minister.

In November 2017, Mueller's investigators interviewed van der Zwaan about his Ukrainian work. But according to the charging document, van der Zwaan:

Lied about when his last communications with Gates and another unnamed person took place
Lied about deleting and not providing relevant emails to the special counsel's team
On February 20, 2018, van der Zwaan pleaded guilty to a false statements charge.

.........................................................................................................
Russia indictments: Robert Mueller brings charges against foreign nationalists for interfering in the 2016 election

All of Robert Mueller's indictments and plea deals in the Russia investigation so far
Republican-run Senate committee says Russia tried to help Trump win
Source of above quote
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... grand-jury

Fox News source
www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/04/who ... o-far.html

Over a 100 charges, 19 people and 3 companies charged in Mueller Investigation
FIVE INDIVIDUALS TO DATE HAVE PLEAD GUILTY OF CHARGES AGAINST THEM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/us/p ... arges.html
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25192
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

Its hard to ignore some of these outcomes.

Its also worth noting that very often lesser charges will be used to negotiate terms, ie additional information, stitching a bigger fish up etc. And it speaks volumes to me that quite a number of these fish are indeed answering some of these kinds of charges.
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

All those charges of "lying to investigators" are "crimes" only because the investigation was taking place. No investigation would mean no crime; therefore, those particular charges amount to nothing more than the investigation trying to justify its continued existence.

If I am an FBI agent and I question you for a long enough time I can find a misstatement or a contradiction in your sworn testimony. At that point, even though you had never been charged with any other crime you are now guilty of "lying to investigators".
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25192
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

If wishes were fishes thered be no hunger in the world 🌍

Sure, but thats not how this works. And if what you suggest is so, why would anyone plead guilty? Those that plead guilty rather than have their ... innocence... fought and defended in court? Theyve taken a deal Hashi. No one would plead guilty to an unjust charge in the circumstances you describe. Think about it.

There are charges as youve described, but also conspiracy, creating and selling fraudulent bank accounts, witness tampering and on.

Theres much more at work here than what Trump constantly declares a hoax. Me thinketh he protesteth TOO much .. πŸ€”
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

I am sure they are taking deals. I wouldn't--if you think I am guilty of something you are damned sure going to have to prove it in a court of law. My trial had better be speedy, as well, as guaranteed by the Constitution--none of this crap of being charged now then the trial is not for another 18 months. No, if you have the proof you take me to court *now* and prove it; otherwise, drop the charges.

I am still convinced that this whole investigation is going to wind up being a Phantom Menace situation--the promise and anticipation of the event are awesome, the reality...not so much.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Gadget nee Jemcheeta
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 2040
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:05 pm
Location: Cleveland

Post by Gadget nee Jemcheeta »

You mean another Benghazi? :D I don't know, it feels to me like there'd be a lot more leaks from the investigation if that was where it was going to end up. I'm more worried that we just won't get to see the real results for whatever reason. I'll withhold judgement until I see the output - and I mean the real report, not just the spin everyone will put on it. I remember when the team launched that the reputation of the man running it was respected. I'll continue to believe that until I have a good reason not to as the attacks on him only started after the cues from the white house were clear.
Start where you are,
use what you have,
do what you can.
User avatar
Gaius Octavius
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 3331
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:32 pm

Post by Gaius Octavius »

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:All those charges of "lying to investigators" are "crimes" only because the investigation was taking place. No investigation would mean no crime; therefore, those particular charges amount to nothing more than the investigation trying to justify its continued existence.

If I am an FBI agent and I question you for a long enough time I can find a misstatement or a contradiction in your sworn testimony. At that point, even though you had never been charged with any other crime you are now guilty of "lying to investigators".
Speaking of lying to investigators... Bill Clinton said that if the Monica Lewinsky affair happened again, he would do everything he did all over again because he regrets nothing.
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Nanothnir wrote:Speaking of lying to investigators... Bill Clinton said that if the Monica Lewinsky affair happened again, he would do everything he did all over again because he regrets nothing.
Of course he wouldn't do anything differently and regrets nothing--he was getting free blowjobs from a young intern.

I bet he would do one thing differently, though--he would hire some guys to go steal that blue dress.

Meanwhile, the fishing expedition continues.

Special counsel Robert Mueller's team is requesting that witnesses turn in their personal phones to inspect their encrypted messaging programs and potentially view conversations between associates linked to President Donald Trump, sources told CNBC.

Since as early as April, Mueller's team has been asking witnesses in the Russia probe to turn over phones for agents to examine private conversations on WhatsApp, Confide, Signal and Dust, according to the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Fearing a subpoena, the witnesses have complied with the request and have given over their phones, the sources said.

While it's unclear what Mueller has discovered, if anything, through this new request, investigators seem to be convinced that the apps could be a key to exposing conversations that weren't previously disclosed to them.

A spokesman for the special counsel declined to comment.
If I a witness in an investigation, but not a suspect, and the investigator requests that I turn over my phone, I would tell them "no". If they think that my phone might have been used for some shady or potentially-illegal text messaging then they can go get a subpoena. Of course, by the time they get the subpoena my device would have accidentally been damaged beyond the possibility of pulling data off it. *tsk* *tsk* What a shame.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25192
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

Yes Hashi that is right. And your last is right also .. if YOU were charged with the types of crimes these guys have been, including Manafortes witness tampering charges .. you'd fight it in court. Youd answer the charges.

No reasonable human would plead guilty or hand over their property ... they all have legal representation .. you dont think if there were any defences, any chance of fighting charges they wouldnt pursue a defence strategy? Of course they would.

Any one would ..

But they arent .. and I will tell you why they are not. There are more serious charges hanging over their heads. They are been given an option .. do this or answer this.

These guys are complying ONLY to ensure a more serious set of charges will not be held against them, more difficult to answer.
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Skyweir wrote: But they arent .. and I will tell you why they are not. There are more serious charges hanging over their heads. They are been given an option .. do this or answer this.

These guys are complying ONLY to ensure a more serious set of charges will not be held against them, more difficult to answer.
Given that most of the records of the investigation still have not been made public--standard operating procedure there, nothing fishy about it--I cannot disagree with that assessment. They are also probably hoping for an eventual pardon.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25192
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

oh indeedy doody ;)
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

Skyweir wrote:Yes Hashi that is right. And your last is right also .. if YOU were charged with the types of crimes these guys have been, including Manafortes witness tampering charges .. you'd fight it in court. Youd answer the charges.

No reasonable human would plead guilty or hand over their property ... they all have legal representation .. you dont think if there were any defences, any chance of fighting charges they wouldnt pursue a defence strategy? Of course they would.

Any one would ..
Nope.

Take a plea, do no time, rat on so-and-so, vs having the entirety of the Federal Government arrayed against you in court, with the penalty being years in jail, and whatever skeletons in your closed aired out (remember that weird period in '08 when you looked at a lot of gay porn? NSA remembers.).

What they're doing is completely reasonable.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

Ghost of Joe McCarthy Spooks the Investigation Of Trump's Campaign
It is a bit rich for my esteemed colleague Jonah Goldberg, one of the most persevering but civil of the Never Trumpers, to write, as he did a few days ago, that the Trump emphasis on an FBI spy in his campaign was reminiscent of McCarthyism.

Senator Joseph R. McCarthy, on the floor of the Senate on June 14, 1951, devoted eight hours to accusing General George C. Marshall of delivering eastern Europe to Stalin, and China to Mao Tse-tung, in "a conspiracy so immense, as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man . . . deserving of the maledictions of all honest men."

McCarthy accused Presidents Roosevelt, Truman, and Eisenhower of being Communists or Communist stooges. If Jonah Goldberg can't distinguish Trump from McCarthy, he won't recognize the real thing if it reappears.

Although President Trump offended even some of his supporters by coining the word "Spygate," this unfolding scandal is a good deal more disconcerting than Watergate was. That was a forced entry into the Democratic-party offices that hurt no one, stole nothing, did no damage, and was partisan espionage. There followed revelations of unwholesome political activities by a Republican party and administration that were facing a great deal of media hostility, leaks, and mainly nonviolent guerrilla activism.

There has never been any convincing evidence that President Nixon himself was involved, but it is not so clear whether he had any hand in attempted obstructions of justice, which did occur. But the incident was so immensely publicized, and did move Nixon to resign his office to end the national crisis, that adding the suffix "-gate" to almost anything implies notorious wrongdoing.

This president's political and press opponents represented his upset victory as tainted by illegal and synchronized Russian interference in the 2016 election. Hillary Clinton in her book cited the pastiche of defamatory lies (the Steele Dossier), which she had herself commissioned and paid for and which has been almost entirely discredited, as evidence of Trump's betrayal of America, without mentioning to her readers that she had paid for the confection of the source, presumably imagining this act would not soon emerge.

The FBI, CIA, and NSA directors all briefed the new president about the dossier without identifying its origins. Yet FBI director James Comey asked for retention of his position, promising he didn't "lie, leak, or make weasel moves." As all the world knows, when Comey was fired, on the recommendation of the deputy attorney general (Rod Rosenstein), he illegally leaked a self-addressed memo alleging that Trump had interfered in the investigation of General Michael Flynn, (a claim that has been discredited), in order to incite the appointment of a special prosecutor in the Russian question. That investigation had been proceeding for nine months and has continued for over a year since then under Robert Mueller.

The president's objections to the FBI's insertion of an informant in his campaign without telling him until 18 months later are reasonable. Not a shred of evidence of Trump collusion with the Russians has surfaced; there was no serious evidence of a crime prior to the appointment of Mr. Mueller, contrary to the generally agreed context of the legislation enabling appointment of special prosecutors.

It has been an investigation stuffed with rabidly partisan Democrats; and there is no indication that it has looked at Russian relations with the Democratic campaign. Mr. Mueller is increasingly hobbled by the emerging questions of its legitimacy -- set up by Rosenstein in the absence of a crime after the agitation of Comey, whose dismissal Rosenstein had urged, although special counsels are not appointed to investigate counterintelligence matters.

A president cannot be indicted in office, so it cannot have had any other purpose but to find something that would justify the House of Representatives to vote impeachment and send the president to trial in the Senate. Mr. Rosenstein retroactively expanded the ambit of the investigation but refuses to tell congressional committees or the White House what the new scope is, and Mr. Mueller is threatening a subpoena, though it is not clear that the president would have to answer a subpoena in this unprecedented case, or that there would be serious consequences if he ignored it even if it was validated by high courts.

The president can order that the Justice Department release everything it has, at any time, and is regularly urged to do so. This is the corner Mr. Trump's opponents have backed themselves into, and former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper still states his conviction that the Russians threw the election to Mr. Trump -- with, confessedly, no evidence (which has been the problem of the anti-Trump argument from the beginning).

Mr. Mueller seems to be scruffing around a weak argument that there was obstruction of justice in uncoordinated comments about a meeting with a Russian lawyer and the president's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager at the Trump Tower two years ago. It hasn't been explained well, but the president hasn't obstructed anything.

However, there is extensive public evidence that Messrs. Clapper, Brennan (who recently tweeted that Mr. Trump could "not destroy America"), Comey, his former deputy Andrew McCabe, and Mrs. Clinton and her entourage all lied to Congress or to federal officials. The former attorney general and deputy attorney general (Loretta Lynch and Sally Yates), and Mr. Rosenstein himself, are among those implicated in misleading the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court, and all are in the gray zone of potential indictability and conviction.

I agree that phrases such as "deep state," and "conspiracy" are being bandied about too loosely, but it is more obvious every week that senior officials of the former administration and the Clinton campaign are guilty of, to say the least, gross improprieties. Mr. Mueller will probably have to accept Rudolph Giuliani's conditions for questioning the president, and Mr. Mueller will not get anything damaging from Trump.

He can't stonewall Mr. Trump's counsel with any confidence that the Supreme Court and Congress will support him. Mr. Mueller will have to start winding it up soon, before the president invites the nation to be the jurors in November. In such a contest, the Trumpophobic mudslingers who occupy our television screens, such as Congressmen Adam Schiff and Brad Sherman, both California Democrats, will be ground to powder. (Even the ineffably tiresome Mark Warner, Democratic senator of Virginia who conjured the thousand Russian agents in Wisconsin, has been shut down.)

Donald Trump is no Joe McCarthy, Robert Mueller is an emperor with threadbare clothes, the investigative cupboard is almost empty, and Mr. Trump's enemies can hear the flames crackling in the straw. This preposterous farce justifies an orgy of jumbled metaphors; ring down the curtain, it is almost over.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
User avatar
Ur Dead
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 2295
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:17 am

Post by Ur Dead »

Let's see if I'm correct on this.
If Trump said this is a witch hunt then:
When October comes around. (about a month before the mid term election)
Trump present one of those Presidental instant surprise writs.
It declassifies all documents of the Mueller investigation.
Make all documents available to the Press. Transparency at it best/worse.
/start feeding frenzy by the Press corp.
Now if it is a witch hunt then Trump has nothing to fear and it makes
the Democrats look like idiots and fools.
The political backlash will be paramount.
Good chance it will close down the investigation.
By standards it makes Trump look like a master politician and genius.
(plus put all those representives who started the investigation on a very hot seat)
But Trump has to be right and he has to declassify.
Who knows.. it could backfire.
/waits till October
What's this silver looking ring doing on my finger?
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

I am uncertain if Trump would have the authority to declassify those documents. Rosenstein probably could but he won't. Congress could probably subpoena all the documents then leak them but they won't do that.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25192
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

Image
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
Locked

Return to β€œCoercri”